(O_O
BWA?!
Uhm... wow... not sure what to think right now, except that everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Looks good to me. Now, I'm sure there will be wank, but I'm interested to see this in context. The next few strips will be very telling as to whether this was a Good Thing or not.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies
I didn't find it incredibly amusing, of course social commentary doesn't always have to be. But it helps that it's true.
Given what he said in blog, I'll wait until monday before I declare it fail/win.
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy
I've never been one to step back from a conflict, so I think he did right.
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Epsilon
Humour is often about revealing truths. Sometimes these truths are uncomfortable. Charging Rhino horn up the jacksie uncomfortable.
It is a good strip in that regard; though not being as familiar with the source material (Warhammer I am assuming) - I don't know if it is fair or not. I leave it to the Warhammer crowd to comment on.
I read an interesting article recently on Dora the Explorer recently and the impact of this character; and to a lesser extent observing the multicultural cast of Phinneas and Ferb** and how the pallette of entertainment is growing ever more diverse. It is all good.
** I am vetting kids shows for the Darkling these days and Phinneas and Ferb is among the best and brightest; the musical numbers rock and there is a huge swathe of adult humour, some of it very subtle and obscure mixed in.
Quote:It is a good strip in that regard; though not being as familiar with the source material (Warhammer I am assuming) - I don't know if it is fair or not. I leave it to the Warhammer crowd to comment on.
It doesn't necessarily need to be a specific game. While "Warhamster" is a spoof of "Warhammer", there are other tabletop games - miniature games and RPGs - that are just as guilty of the problem that John pointed out. (Including some of my favourites.)
As promised... I think he did a good thing here. Sometimes the pot needs to be stirred, or you end up with an unappetizing mess - this is a step in that direction.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Back in the 1980s I proposed an article on human races in D&D for Dragon magazine, and got told by the then-editor "That's what we have demihumans for".
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
I am reminded of Paizo's Campaign Setting for the world they made: It has many different human races- each with a physical description and common languages and deities.
Hey, Rob... do you think such a long vote time on the poll is really necessary?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Considering I just voted?
Meh. He makes a valid point. Why are there no black people in WH?
I always figured that was just a consequence of the setting being a pastiche of Middle-Ages and Renaissance-era Europe, and generally being set in a cold, wet and nasty Northern setting. There are 'other races' in WH... IIRC there's a China expy to the East, and I know there've been Arab-like characters.
To the far South, there's the Tomb Kings (I think, it has been a while since I kept up with the background) doing the ancient Egyptian undead thing.
This is the closest there is to an Africa.
You got to remember that the setting is heavily based on the 'old world', with the New world being the mysterious place far west, and The Southlands being as mysterious as central Africa was to your average European in 1632 or so.
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--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
Bob Schroeck Wrote:Hey, Rob... do you think such a long vote time on the poll is really necessary?
I can't change it... Also, ten days should be enough to cover all of next week's
Dork Tower strips, and I've never seen a
DT story go more than one week - that should give everyone who wants to wait until the story's over a chance to vote.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
jpub Wrote:Why are there no black people in WH?
Or Asians.
Dartz Wrote:I always figured that was just a consequence of the setting being a pastiche of Middle-Ages and Renaissance-era Europe, and generally being set in a cold, wet and nasty Northern setting. There are 'other races' in WH... IIRC there's a China expy to the East, and I know there've been Arab-like characters.
To the far South, there's the Tomb Kings (I think, it has been a while since I kept up with the background) doing the ancient Egyptian undead thing.
This is the closest there is to an Africa.
You got to remember that the setting is heavily based on the 'old world', with the New world being the mysterious place far west, and The Southlands being as mysterious as central Africa was to your average European in 1632 or so.
Basically this. Warhammer Ancients, the historical version of the game, has African armies as well tons of others. So GW doesn't completely ignore them, but I think it's just they would rather talk about orcs or lizardmen or rat people or whatever then continually file off the serial numbers on societies and put them in the WH universe. 40K has a chapter of space marines who are black, and supposedly they are one of the few chapters who give a shit about civilian collateral damage.
---
Jon
"And that must have caused my dad's brain to break in half, replaced by a purely mechanical engine of revenge!"
Herr Bad Moon Wrote:40K has a chapter of space marines who are black, and supposedly they are one of the few chapters who give a shit about civilian collateral damage.
Aren't those marines the ones who get darker the longer they live, sorta like the Assamites from V:tm?
_________________________________
Take Your Candle, Go Light Your World.
http://www.dorktower.com/2010/08/31/mus ... t-31-2010/]Muskrat Ramblings for Tuesday
Provides some context - on the off-chance you haven't voted yet, you might want to read this before voting.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Another, more practical reason...
When you're painting a mass of miniatures in large batches, you tend to stick with the one colour combination across the whole lot... including skin tone. When you're trying to get things done quickly, was the GW 'eavy Metal team have to do, you tend to just find one combination that works well and run with it.
Also, when painting skin tones, a pale skin allows for better depth of shading, and highlighting of the figure's details. That's what a lot of the darker skin tones and washes are actually used for. You can see more detail on the figure with lighter colours. I paint Cadians with very pale skin, because it stands out well from the dark greens and blacks of their uniform, and draws attention to the face and hands.
(Thinking on this, I have a bunch of old guardsmen I haven't painted yet... I might do up one fair-skinned, and another dark-skinned... see which looks better.)
With 40k, Pallid skin just emphasises the GRIMDARK. Pale skin is always seen unhealthy in humans.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
Consider, though, the sheer number of masses of miniatures. No one person painted all of the minis photographed in the Warhammer rulebook; is it too much to ask that one of the paint crew use something other than Caucasian while painting his or her batch of minis?
(And, again, this isn't a problem unique to Warhammer. There aren't a heck of a lot of non-whites shown in GURPS illustrations...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Quote:There aren't a heck of a lot of non-whites shown in GURPS illustrations...
I've done my best to ameliorate that.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Yes, you have. But so many others haven't...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
One thing I love about Exalted is how inclusive it is in that respect. The core rulebook featured a black woman as the signature character from the beginning. The books since then have included all sorts of races, ethicniticies, sexualities and so on.
--------------
Epsilon
The thing is, this whole 'race' thing is a total minefield... It's something I prefer to just go around because it's so easy to offend somebody somehow without even trying. You start thinking how things 'could' be seen, rather than how things will be seen, and it just turns into a mental furball. You have the few miniatures with a different skin tone, what happens when you reach down without even looking at them to pull one of them out as a casualty? Common sense says they're all 6pt guardsmen so who cares? But... well my faith in human beings being able to demonstrate common sense is rather low right now.
You have to be so damned careful, and it's not something I think I can do. Artwork and illustration is a different thing, mind.
I suppose that's the great thing about Khorne. He cares not for race, colour or creed... he cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows. They all look the same after a good chainaxing
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
So... three-quarters of the self-selected poll respondents think John Kovalic did the right thing, while the other quarter aren't sure. Nobody who voted thinks he did the wrong thing.
That says something about us, doesn't it?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
There's nothing wrong with pointing out the lack of racial diversity in a game.
However, pointing out the lack of racial diversity in a game (which is based on Medieval Europe) is quite different from working out how to insert racial diversity into a game based on Medieval Europe.
Which isn't to say that Medieval Europe didn't have what its inhabitants regarded as different racial groups - but their different groups would all be lumped together as just "white", by modern people. I, personally, can't tell the difference between a German and a Slav, but that difference was considered very significant by a lot of people within living memory.
You could easily just throw in some people with differently coloured skin, but explaining why they have differently coloured skin, creating the lands where they originally came from, and explaining why they're now living in "Europe" - that'd be difficult.