01-18-2014, 05:10 PM
01-18-2014, 08:11 PM
I'll preface this with a disclaimer - I'm not really in any position to give an opinion. I'm 29, and I've had maybe two serious relationships in my life. So this is not any sort of analysis or advice, just observations of what jumped out at me.
I do agree that your...former?...fiancee let you down. I can't speak for her finances and job obligations, but surely if she knew you were coming to town, with three months of lead time...well.That doesn't seem to make sense. Surely there's such a thing as time off work.
And you basically being locked out in an unfamiliar city is horrifying. That's just...I mean, seriously, what? I actually didn't catch the fact that you use a wheelchair until the second time I read the post - so that's just an extra helping of what on top of that.
It sounds like your lady friend has poor judgement and priorities. You already know that, of course. But with most of your contact being online, well, that was never so time-intensive. What I mean is, when she interacted with you, it'd have been on her own terms, and obviously it'd have involved a lot less time on her part out of a given day. Even a long phone call or video chat is still something scheduled, demarcated, earmarked.
But some people are terrible at being able to allocate time to other people on a day-to-day basis. That's different. It's possible for a certain kind of individual to be so caught up in their own crap that they don't really stop to think - at all - about other people. And I can even understand that, because that's basically my big problem in a relationship. Of course, I'm fully aware I'm a self-centred insular introvert, so I actively try to address that. Precisely because it's caused problems for me, and I know it's a major character flaw of mine.
The lady in question, though...well. It doesn't seem she realises anything is wrong. Unless she at least realises something's wrong, then there's no way forward.
I dunno if that helps or not, it's just a random observation from a random Internet stranger. You have my sympathies. I've sort of been where you are - from both the giving end (being a horrible SO) and receiving end (getting cold-shouldered). In that chronological order, I should clarify. Both sides of that same treatment - but well-deserved karma, in my case. In yours, well...I don't know what I could type here that wouldn't sound trite.
I hope you feel better. Not soon. It won't be soon. But eventually.
-- Acyl
I do agree that your...former?...fiancee let you down. I can't speak for her finances and job obligations, but surely if she knew you were coming to town, with three months of lead time...well.That doesn't seem to make sense. Surely there's such a thing as time off work.
And you basically being locked out in an unfamiliar city is horrifying. That's just...I mean, seriously, what? I actually didn't catch the fact that you use a wheelchair until the second time I read the post - so that's just an extra helping of what on top of that.
It sounds like your lady friend has poor judgement and priorities. You already know that, of course. But with most of your contact being online, well, that was never so time-intensive. What I mean is, when she interacted with you, it'd have been on her own terms, and obviously it'd have involved a lot less time on her part out of a given day. Even a long phone call or video chat is still something scheduled, demarcated, earmarked.
But some people are terrible at being able to allocate time to other people on a day-to-day basis. That's different. It's possible for a certain kind of individual to be so caught up in their own crap that they don't really stop to think - at all - about other people. And I can even understand that, because that's basically my big problem in a relationship. Of course, I'm fully aware I'm a self-centred insular introvert, so I actively try to address that. Precisely because it's caused problems for me, and I know it's a major character flaw of mine.
The lady in question, though...well. It doesn't seem she realises anything is wrong. Unless she at least realises something's wrong, then there's no way forward.
I dunno if that helps or not, it's just a random observation from a random Internet stranger. You have my sympathies. I've sort of been where you are - from both the giving end (being a horrible SO) and receiving end (getting cold-shouldered). In that chronological order, I should clarify. Both sides of that same treatment - but well-deserved karma, in my case. In yours, well...I don't know what I could type here that wouldn't sound trite.
I hope you feel better. Not soon. It won't be soon. But eventually.
-- Acyl
01-18-2014, 08:35 PM
Please pardon me if I ramble a bit; I think I have a sense of what happened, but it's not easy to describe in words.
Long-distance relationships tend to come with a number of potential problems, just by their very nature. The big one is fitting the other person into your life.
When you're long-distance, you never really have to. You have to make time, true, but that pales in comparison to living in the same house, sharing your space, and trying to get along like that. You can see each other with video chat, talk with voice chat... but you don't have to be there with them.
I can't help but notice that the one time you saw each other before that was when she came to visit you... or, to put it more to the point, when she arranged to leave her current life temporarily to come into yours. Again, she never had to fit you into her life that way. It would've been like a vacation, psychologically speaking; it would've fit into the same mental box.
Once you went to her, though... that's a whole different kettle of fish. You were there, in her life. If things went well, both of you would've had to adapt, until you reached a common equilibrium. The fact that they didn't- and that you tried, but she didn't- suggests that the problem was with her. It sounds (based on limited data, from your side of the issue) to me like either she didn't get along with you as well as you'd both hoped, or she has (as Acyl said) a time management problem the size of the Pacific. You'd be better qualified to decide which.
In your situation, I probably would've done something similar to what you did. Might've left sooner, but that's just me. Sounds like you were justified.
You have my sympathies.
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.
I've been writing a bit.
Long-distance relationships tend to come with a number of potential problems, just by their very nature. The big one is fitting the other person into your life.
When you're long-distance, you never really have to. You have to make time, true, but that pales in comparison to living in the same house, sharing your space, and trying to get along like that. You can see each other with video chat, talk with voice chat... but you don't have to be there with them.
I can't help but notice that the one time you saw each other before that was when she came to visit you... or, to put it more to the point, when she arranged to leave her current life temporarily to come into yours. Again, she never had to fit you into her life that way. It would've been like a vacation, psychologically speaking; it would've fit into the same mental box.
Once you went to her, though... that's a whole different kettle of fish. You were there, in her life. If things went well, both of you would've had to adapt, until you reached a common equilibrium. The fact that they didn't- and that you tried, but she didn't- suggests that the problem was with her. It sounds (based on limited data, from your side of the issue) to me like either she didn't get along with you as well as you'd both hoped, or she has (as Acyl said) a time management problem the size of the Pacific. You'd be better qualified to decide which.
In your situation, I probably would've done something similar to what you did. Might've left sooner, but that's just me. Sounds like you were justified.
You have my sympathies.
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.
I've been writing a bit.
01-18-2014, 10:38 PM
I will, as a point of order, disclose that I have never personally had any sort of serious personal relationship. This is all inference, theory, and what "seems right." Your Mileage May Vary.
Much as Bluemage said, Moving in together is a very big shift in any relationship. Doubly so with a long-distance/internet relationship. You may know someone pretty well in the social sphere, but moving into the personal one means a whole lot of seemingly simple things have to change for both of you. Not the least of which is someone else is there sharing your space.
I know that apartment leases tend to have specific terms on people not on the lease not staying there; but, if as you said, the landlord knew of and was at least not objecting to your presence, keeping you locked in (or out of) the apartment is just plain cruel and controlling. If you both agreed you could stay there, and you were paying half of her rent, the very least she could do is give you a key to the place.
Now, I know how easily it is to double-book your time with friends when you don't have a strong schedule in place (and, for a soon-to-be-marriage, you shouldn't need one). I've done it far too many times either through inattentiveness, or misjudging the length of certain activities. I can understand an occasional mistake, but with three months of planning, there should at least be some room for spending time together. If she's not going to be able to reliably be around for you, she's got no room to expect that you should be just waiting for her to come home at any point.
I would advise remembering Hanlon's Razor when thinking of the debacle that was this vacation, though. "Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity." I don't think she meant to be as uncaring and thoughtless as she turned out to be, but I don't think she was ready to handle the changes that come with sharing your life with someone. It sounds like she just went along with the relationship as she knew it, not remembering you were actually there with her now. Then, when confronted with the realities of the situation, she turned defensive rather than admit to the indignities she put you through.
Given the situation, I think you did as best as you could by getting out. I'm not so certain that an unceremonious severing of all communications was required, but it certainly wasn't undeserved.
---
The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
Much as Bluemage said, Moving in together is a very big shift in any relationship. Doubly so with a long-distance/internet relationship. You may know someone pretty well in the social sphere, but moving into the personal one means a whole lot of seemingly simple things have to change for both of you. Not the least of which is someone else is there sharing your space.
I know that apartment leases tend to have specific terms on people not on the lease not staying there; but, if as you said, the landlord knew of and was at least not objecting to your presence, keeping you locked in (or out of) the apartment is just plain cruel and controlling. If you both agreed you could stay there, and you were paying half of her rent, the very least she could do is give you a key to the place.
Now, I know how easily it is to double-book your time with friends when you don't have a strong schedule in place (and, for a soon-to-be-marriage, you shouldn't need one). I've done it far too many times either through inattentiveness, or misjudging the length of certain activities. I can understand an occasional mistake, but with three months of planning, there should at least be some room for spending time together. If she's not going to be able to reliably be around for you, she's got no room to expect that you should be just waiting for her to come home at any point.
I would advise remembering Hanlon's Razor when thinking of the debacle that was this vacation, though. "Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity." I don't think she meant to be as uncaring and thoughtless as she turned out to be, but I don't think she was ready to handle the changes that come with sharing your life with someone. It sounds like she just went along with the relationship as she knew it, not remembering you were actually there with her now. Then, when confronted with the realities of the situation, she turned defensive rather than admit to the indignities she put you through.
Given the situation, I think you did as best as you could by getting out. I'm not so certain that an unceremonious severing of all communications was required, but it certainly wasn't undeserved.
---
The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
01-19-2014, 02:14 AM
I will rate this relationship collapse in terms that Bob uses to describe the security settings on Douglas Sagnoirs bike: FUCKING OUCH.
More seriously... It does seem that she doesn't have her priorities straight. More importantly, she seems like someone that is very much unable to formulate and/or follow a long-term plan. Now, this is where it's kinda tricky. If she simply couldn't figure out a plan, well... In a relationship she could leave the major plotting to a significant other so long as she had her own input. But being unable to follow the plan once its set? *shakes head* Not worth it. You might lover her and all that, but having someone like that so intermeshed with your life only leads to pain and suffering.
Oh, and as I delivery driver, I have to say that I fucking HATE GATED COMMUNITIES. I have seen very few that are actually effective at what they do. And the ones that are effective are such to the point that there's no way for me to get in. I have to phone a customer and wait five or ten minutes for them to come down and pay me and get their food.
That said... She really didn't think this out too well. For one thing, she could have picked up a spare fob for you to get in and out. I don't see why not. "Hi! My friend from Australia is coming over for a couple of months and will be staying with me. Can I get a spare fob?" "Of course. We'll just need a photo copy of his visa just for security purposes." Sure, some places can be real ass-holes about this sort of thing and just plain say no. At which point she could have arranged for you to stay with a trustworthy friend that didn't live in a gated community.
And another thing... I could see the whole job thing - she's gotten herself into a hole and now she needs to get dug out, ASAP. (Ditching the car would help - not like she could take it with her because that sort of shit is expensive as all hell.) But she definitely took it too far by sucking up to her boss and co-workers. And believe me, from what you'd described, I'm surprised you didn't mention that whenever she came home her nose was brown.
Don't get me wrong. I like having full-time hours and I like having overtime even more. It gets me money that I am in dire need of, and the work I do now has got nothing on my life in the Navy. But when it comes time for me to cut and run, and I have definite reason to do so, my boos doesn't mind one bit. Sure, they're keeping an eye on labor costs, but I know they like having me around. I know because whenever I go to help out at another store they start begging me to come work for them regularly.
And there is where she needs to learn to draw her priorities. Money is good, looking good for the boss is great, but the boss (if they're a decent sort) will understand you got a life, too, and you need to take some time for it.
In short, I'd just let her go. Sure, she might be great fun to talk to and all, but that's all she really seems to be good for. Sure, one might be able to help her out, get her to not be such a flake, but that requires time and resources you do not have access to. And also, you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If she is that convinced that you're in the wrong... WELL! Good riddance!
More seriously... It does seem that she doesn't have her priorities straight. More importantly, she seems like someone that is very much unable to formulate and/or follow a long-term plan. Now, this is where it's kinda tricky. If she simply couldn't figure out a plan, well... In a relationship she could leave the major plotting to a significant other so long as she had her own input. But being unable to follow the plan once its set? *shakes head* Not worth it. You might lover her and all that, but having someone like that so intermeshed with your life only leads to pain and suffering.
Oh, and as I delivery driver, I have to say that I fucking HATE GATED COMMUNITIES. I have seen very few that are actually effective at what they do. And the ones that are effective are such to the point that there's no way for me to get in. I have to phone a customer and wait five or ten minutes for them to come down and pay me and get their food.
That said... She really didn't think this out too well. For one thing, she could have picked up a spare fob for you to get in and out. I don't see why not. "Hi! My friend from Australia is coming over for a couple of months and will be staying with me. Can I get a spare fob?" "Of course. We'll just need a photo copy of his visa just for security purposes." Sure, some places can be real ass-holes about this sort of thing and just plain say no. At which point she could have arranged for you to stay with a trustworthy friend that didn't live in a gated community.
And another thing... I could see the whole job thing - she's gotten herself into a hole and now she needs to get dug out, ASAP. (Ditching the car would help - not like she could take it with her because that sort of shit is expensive as all hell.) But she definitely took it too far by sucking up to her boss and co-workers. And believe me, from what you'd described, I'm surprised you didn't mention that whenever she came home her nose was brown.
Don't get me wrong. I like having full-time hours and I like having overtime even more. It gets me money that I am in dire need of, and the work I do now has got nothing on my life in the Navy. But when it comes time for me to cut and run, and I have definite reason to do so, my boos doesn't mind one bit. Sure, they're keeping an eye on labor costs, but I know they like having me around. I know because whenever I go to help out at another store they start begging me to come work for them regularly.
And there is where she needs to learn to draw her priorities. Money is good, looking good for the boss is great, but the boss (if they're a decent sort) will understand you got a life, too, and you need to take some time for it.
In short, I'd just let her go. Sure, she might be great fun to talk to and all, but that's all she really seems to be good for. Sure, one might be able to help her out, get her to not be such a flake, but that requires time and resources you do not have access to. And also, you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If she is that convinced that you're in the wrong... WELL! Good riddance!
K sai
01-19-2014, 05:21 AM
Remarkable how well all responders have accurately pegged her reactions to the situation given that I tried not to spend too much time going into endless detail. A couple of Clarifications:
She has not replied to my last response in any shape or form. I strenuously object her characterisation of my portrayal as 'how it appeared to me' because I am stating the facts of her actions which are not in question as inappropriate - not guessing why she did it or her motivations. I've pointed this out to her repeatedly only to be told 'that's your opinion'.
Wow, this kinda ballooned. My apologies again and thanks for all the responses. It reinforces that I'm not imagining things or have unreasonable expectations from a person in her position/generation etc.- as she claimed...
- I didn't cut off communications until a month after I came back from the trip. I tried to desperately salvage the situation rather than - as has been said 'cut off communication unceremoniously' - but she just said 'she hadn't done anything'. This is her last message - the one that prompted me to say, in response, there was no point in discussing things via email anymore:
Quote:While I understand your point of view and I get talking to people affirms what you have decided to believe- I take that with a grain of salt because you portray it how it appeared to you. There are three sides to any story- your side, my side- and then there is the truth which lies between the two.
While I may have behaved inappropriately, I do not hate you. Really. In many ways I am still not quite ready for things, it seems. I am not excusing my behavior. It was not as considerate as it should have been. I am not dismissing anything I have done and I am not saying to simply move on. This is all you choosing to take that out of what was said when it never was. I will not continue to attempt to correct it as it doesn't seem to matter what I think.
This conversation has been nothing but the same thing over and over again. There has been no progress but two sides of an argument that do not budge on their stance.
I am for solutions. currently I am at a loss for one. I do not know your standpoint. I would be interested to know what you might suggest. But nothing positive is coming of this because we both believe with certainty that we are correct- regardless of how adamant you are to tell me that I am wrong to believe what I do. That is my choice, not yours. Just as it is your own to choose what you believe. I will not deny you that.
The fact that I bother to respond at all should say something.
She has not replied to my last response in any shape or form. I strenuously object her characterisation of my portrayal as 'how it appeared to me' because I am stating the facts of her actions which are not in question as inappropriate - not guessing why she did it or her motivations. I've pointed this out to her repeatedly only to be told 'that's your opinion'.
- The comments about online communication being completely under her control and/or simultaneous with her real-life activities - as opposed to how she felt my presence being intrusive in real life is spot on.
One comment she made (paraphrased) which spurred my decision to leave (as the last thing I wanted to do was cause her harm) was:Quote:I can't take the stress - freaking me out - I can't sleep, I can't eat, my body is reacting like there's an intruder in my space. It's killing me - because emotionally and mentally I want desperately to hold you and be held by you, but I can't physically bring myself to do it. I thought, hoped and dreamed that my feelings would override my normal feelings around people but I can't
This and other comments she made mirror many of the discussion points made.
- Yes, her time management and follow through was terrible. Or rather, her forward planning is great - but that's all she seems to do! She was so busy trying to make sure she had a fall back position if things didn't work out - she had no time to actually spare on actually devoting time to successfully completing the current situation!
- She honestly didn't seem to see anything wrong with sort of shoe-horning me around her regularly scheduled life. I felt like her absolute last priority. Jobs, friends/co-workers and regular schedule came first - I got whatever was left - which usually meant arguing about the way she was handling things when we should have been asleep or she needed to go to work (then blaming me for her bosses being upset with her). Any suggestion that under the circumstances her regular schedule needed to be put on hold caused an argument.
But like Ankhani suggested - she kept saying things like (paraphrased):
Quote:I'm not doing anything wrong! I cut back my hours - I'm only working at my part time job twice a week and on weekends - I didn't have any choice about working the holiday because it's retail - and I promised to spend time with my boss - you're judging based on such a short space of time, you've barely been here a week! My day job will give me three days off next week and another three days off around Christmas, I had to pull a lot of strings to get time off the weekend (the day after) you arrived - why are you being so demanding? Stop being dramatic!
- BlackAeronaut - Yes, she said that she was frustrated at not being able to be 'spontaneous' with me around. Of course she still did things like:
- Leave the house at 11pm on Thanksgiving eve (my sixth night) to 'help her boss' (after arguing with me for 4 hours first and refusing to eat a meal with me - because she claimed it was unfair I was upset - even though I said 'if you promised, you have to go, go' from the start')
- Then come home at 3pm on thanksgiving, go to bed, get up at 6pm (argue with me that I was being unreasonable) and leave at 9pm (to avoid the Black Friday traffic issues) as she had the 12am to 6am and 9am to 12pm shifts at her retail 'part time' job...
- Note that, originally I thought we would have Thanksgiving and Friday to ourselves along with weekends, because she was supposed to leave that job...
- On Black Friday itself she came home at 3pm (after sleeping over her co-workers house) and went to bed. She refused to go out to dinner (as there was no food in the apartment) three hours later.
- Yet when I came back two hours later, she was up and planning to go sleep at her co-workers house to be able to work that saturday as the shopping center had a 'no staff parking' rule in force that day... and we had an argument about how I had no right to be upset that she had no problem with going to spend time with her friends but didn't want to eat dinner with me...
- Yes, I also suggested ditching the car, sorry Jeep, to remove an expense she couldn't maintain - but she insisted she needed it to get between jobs. As it was a Jeep, I couldn't get into it unassisted so she wouldn't take me to meet her friends or on any of her errands either...
- As for brown nosing - yeah, her bosses abused the hell out of her as far as I could see. All her 'time-off ' was unpaid then they expected her to work late to make up for it. When I was complaining about her behaviour as opposed to what she told me, which as you can see didn't match her actions at all (and suggesting she needed to quit her jobs) then she would turn around and tell me I was twisting her words and accused me of issuing ultimatums etc. She couldn't understand why I paid attention to her behaviour - and not what she kept telling me i.e. that she was trying so hard and I was unappreciative.
Wow, this kinda ballooned. My apologies again and thanks for all the responses. It reinforces that I'm not imagining things or have unreasonable expectations from a person in her position/generation etc.- as she claimed...
01-19-2014, 06:42 AM
I hate drawing conclusions from one half of a story, but I think there's enough to do so here.
This... doesn't sound like a person who is interested in marriage. At least not a love marriage, anyway. A love marriage means that you're acknowledging the other person as the most important person in your life. And if she was working on emigrating to Australia, that should have meant that she was willing to throw away the larger part of her current life to be with you. And that just didn't happen.
along, Mr. Fiance.
there's not enough information here to say if you did something wrong
(though you probably did, being human and all), but in the end that
really doesn't matter. You would have worked past it in a week if it
was ever going to work out, rather than the problem getting
progressively worse.
Long distance relationships are always fraught with problems, because it is so easy to assume how one would feel if one was physically present. Theories are all fine on paper, until you do the experiment. Bluemage said it earlier -- being with you was easy when it was a vacation from her life, but she couldn't figure out how to fit you into her everyday life. Or she didn't really know what it would take to be around a guy in a wheelchair every day. And given that this has been thirteen years in the making, I doubt she will ever to mature enough to fit you in.
And that sucks, man. Nothin' to do now but write some blues and/or country music.
-- ∇×V
This... doesn't sound like a person who is interested in marriage. At least not a love marriage, anyway. A love marriage means that you're acknowledging the other person as the most important person in your life. And if she was working on emigrating to Australia, that should have meant that she was willing to throw away the larger part of her current life to be with you. And that just didn't happen.
Quote:When she was off work sheAnd you weren't good enough to bring
had to go to her friends
along, Mr. Fiance.
the Woman Wrote:While I understand your pointLol. Anyway,
of view... I do not know your standpoint.
there's not enough information here to say if you did something wrong
(though you probably did, being human and all), but in the end that
really doesn't matter. You would have worked past it in a week if it
was ever going to work out, rather than the problem getting
progressively worse.
Long distance relationships are always fraught with problems, because it is so easy to assume how one would feel if one was physically present. Theories are all fine on paper, until you do the experiment. Bluemage said it earlier -- being with you was easy when it was a vacation from her life, but she couldn't figure out how to fit you into her everyday life. Or she didn't really know what it would take to be around a guy in a wheelchair every day. And given that this has been thirteen years in the making, I doubt she will ever to mature enough to fit you in.
And that sucks, man. Nothin' to do now but write some blues and/or country music.
-- ∇×V
01-19-2014, 11:18 AM
Quote:K sai wrote:BWAAAUUUGH? That... That is BEYOND brown nosing. That is downright sycophancy. I mean, seriously... working on holiday time... WITHOUT GETTING PAID!? That's a criminal offense if she were to ever press charges. But she won't. (Oh, I know she did it of her own free will, but these days that sort of thing is such a veritable minefield that an employer is better off telling the employee to GTFO than chance a legal action. Hell, if her company's legal department found out about it there would be hell to pay from within the company.)So yeah, everyone seems to have hit the target exactly in terms of her behaviour and attitudes even though I didn't discuss it at length. So I guess I did the right thing. I just don't know what to do with myself now - after 13 years and 30k worth of 'assistance' and expenses related to the relationship I'm at a complete loss - having someone as a constant and then not having them there is very debilitating. Am trying to rebuild my social circle, but its not easy...
- As for brown nosing - yeah, her bosses abused the hell out of her as far as I could see. All her 'time-off ' was unpaid then they expected her to work late to make up for it. When I was complaining about her behaviour as opposed to what she told me, which as you can see didn't match her actions at all (and suggesting she needed to quit her jobs) then she would turn around and tell me I was twisting her words and accused me of issuing ultimatums etc. She couldn't understand why I paid attention to her behaviour - and not what she kept telling me i.e. that she was trying so hard and I was unappreciative.
Wow, this kinda ballooned. My apologies again and thanks for all the responses. It reinforces that I'm not imagining things or have unreasonable expectations from a person in her position/generation etc.- as she claimed...
Quote:K sai wrote:Well... In my experience, this is usually where the floodgates open. Mutual friends of yours will probably try and remain neutral, but as more and more dirty bath water gets tossed out the window, the baby won't be long in following and they'll see how things really are. (Dunno if they have the saying downunder, 'Don't throw the baby out with the bath.')
So yeah, everyone seems to have hit the target exactly in terms of her
behaviour and attitudes even though I didn't discuss it at length. So I
guess I did the right thing. I just don't know what to do with myself
now - after 13 years and 30k worth of 'assistance' and expenses related
to the relationship I'm at a complete loss - having someone as a
constant and then not having them there is very debilitating. Am trying
to rebuild my social circle, but its not easy...
Otherwise... I've been there, somewhat. Not as bad as your situation, but yeah. It is super-tough, and an honest-to-gods kick to the guts, and for me there were some days I just felt like rolling over and dying. But, as the old saw goes, life goes on.
I recommend some music. There's really nothing better to help a man move through this process - like lubricating the gears, really. Just make sure you get a good broad emotional spectrum in there. Having angry and sad music may certainly help, but something a little upbeat doesn't hurt either. Many is the man out there today who can proudly play special song from his past and say, "This song literally saved my life."
K sai
01-19-2014, 01:47 PM
Quote:blackaeronaut wrote:There seems to be something of a misunderstanding. As far as I know, she didn't work thanksgiving or any of the other days she had arranged leave - but the leave was unpaid and she was expected to work later on her regular work days i.e. after 5pm to 6:30 at the day job or after 10pm at the other job etc. to make up for being given the extra days off.
I mean, seriously... working on holiday time... WITHOUT GETTING PAID!?
She told me that the USA doesn't have the concept of 'Paid leave' aside from a few public holidays (unlike australia where we get 4 weeks paid leave annually) and that the practice was standard... I take it from your reaction BA that this is unusual?
Mutual friends - being as we are on different continents we don't have any and I never met any of hers. No doubt she's telling them how horrid I am, and they're telling her she's better off without me. The social circle issue comes from the fact that as I am disabled I don't tend to have a large social circle to begin with and as I've been focusing on her for so long, I've not focused on building one.
Wailing - yeah I bawled like an idiot when she told me she wasn't asking me to leave (after I'd moved the ticket) and many times since then. She on the other hand didn't cry - she said that her parents punished her for crying in public so she could only cry alone... yet she says stuff like the email she sent me before I even got on the plane back:
Quote:I don't think I could ever articulate into words what I feel right now. I don't know if, right now, I keep it all together because the pain of this is so overwhelming or because I can't accept what has become the inevitable.
You told me once I never failed at what I set out to do.
I suppose there is a first time for everything- even if it is the one thing one would assume you shouldn't mess up.
I know I asked to be your friend. I do understand if that isn't possible and I wouldn't hold that against you. It may be asking too much. You can't have everything and nothing simultaneously, after all.
Hope was a very powerful motivator to do more and to do better. That doesn't feel like it's there anymore. I don't know what it means or what to do from here. With all my ambition, it all feels quite dull.
But I suppose the worst hasn't hit home just yet.
In many ways, I have lost the most important person in my life. Even if contact is maintained in a distant fashion, it will always be a ghost and nothing more. It almost feels like a domino effect- disrupting or destroying one aspect causes all the other pieces to fall so effortlessly. I can't bring myself to consider what is ahead. Not now. Maybe not ever.
But I brought this on myself. On you. I wanted to make everything fall into place but all I did was tear everything apart.
I'm sorry, too.
I pointed out it didn't address any of the issues or how she planned to fix any of it which eventually led to the email I quoted previously... she seems willing to say the right things but isn't willing to change her behaviour...
I just don't know what to think really - cutting off communication was more an act of self-preservation than anything else because maintaining contact after all this with no change on her part would drive me mad. As it is she's gotten away with everything with no need to make any changes again...
Anyway like I said, she's the only one who seems to think her behaviour was ok and only my refusal to accept it was the issue - so I have to stop second guessing myself and playing out 'What-if' scenarios in my head, trying to work out what I could have done better.
Thank you everyone for the advice.
01-19-2014, 06:24 PM
I'll add a few things onto this.
We do have a concept of "paid leave", but it's not mandated or enforced by law, and it tends to only be applied to full-time workers. And some places try to avoid providing it to full time workers if they can manage it - typically by trying to ensure that they never have full time workers.
But it's also not really an excuse for any of her behavior. She should have been able to make arrangements, or at the very least, recommended that this visit not occur during the holidays. If she was working retail, we've got an increasing tendency towards exploitation and retail workers effectively no longer having Thanksgiving.
Also, as bad as it seems that you've had to cut off contact... even if things hadn't ended so badly, it might have been a good idea just to get your balance back to resume things as a mere friendship.
I will also pile on with the "long distance relationships aren't the best thing." I've had two. Both of them ended pretty badly, and the last one was actually abusive, with circumstances I will not go into. My current relationship is absolutely, purely local, and it suits me to the ground at this point. Also, we both have our own lives, I haven't stepped away from much of my own social life to be in this relationship, and I do not expect my partner to step away from theirs. And yes, stepping away from one's social life to a major degree is something of a cost of long distance relationship, because as noted, it's effectively like a vacation when there is a visitation.
Regarding the 30,000 in assistance, write it off as the cost of a lesson learned.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
We do have a concept of "paid leave", but it's not mandated or enforced by law, and it tends to only be applied to full-time workers. And some places try to avoid providing it to full time workers if they can manage it - typically by trying to ensure that they never have full time workers.
But it's also not really an excuse for any of her behavior. She should have been able to make arrangements, or at the very least, recommended that this visit not occur during the holidays. If she was working retail, we've got an increasing tendency towards exploitation and retail workers effectively no longer having Thanksgiving.
Also, as bad as it seems that you've had to cut off contact... even if things hadn't ended so badly, it might have been a good idea just to get your balance back to resume things as a mere friendship.
I will also pile on with the "long distance relationships aren't the best thing." I've had two. Both of them ended pretty badly, and the last one was actually abusive, with circumstances I will not go into. My current relationship is absolutely, purely local, and it suits me to the ground at this point. Also, we both have our own lives, I haven't stepped away from much of my own social life to be in this relationship, and I do not expect my partner to step away from theirs. And yes, stepping away from one's social life to a major degree is something of a cost of long distance relationship, because as noted, it's effectively like a vacation when there is a visitation.
Regarding the 30,000 in assistance, write it off as the cost of a lesson learned.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
01-20-2014, 05:25 AM
Pretty much what JFerio said, though we typically refer to it as 'Vacation Days'. Usually, this is the sole luxury of the salaried worker, though a few high-level hourly waged jobs will have them, too. And of course, they come in two varieties: paid and unpaid. Given how you've been hearing about how the middle class is shrinking like a bacteria colony sharing a petri dish with some bread mold, you can imagine that paid vacation days are rare.
Additionally, during certain holidays, most employers have a policy of paying time-and-a-half to anyone working on that holiday. This is what some of us refer to as "Holiday Time" because it's like making overtime pay without actually hitting overtime. From the sound of things, she seems to work in some office of some kind and, therefore, in the sort of place that pays this sort of wage. (Driving around in a new Jeep does not strike me as 'blue collar worker'.) During the Big Two, Christmas and Thanksgiving, the days before and after can count, too.
So, even if she was only there on the day before Thanksgiving, her boss probably made a killing on the labor-cost-vs-productivity charts.
Something to keep in mind: many of the labor laws here in the USA vary from one State/Commonwealth to the next. If you're really curious to see if you lady's employer is in violation, you might want to check out that State's laws regarding the matter. If so, then you can find her employer's legal department and tip them off... and make sure you tip off the appropriate law enforcement agency, too. That'll light a fire under their asses.
Remember, nothing says satisfaction like getting an evil boss shit-canned, especially when they not only have it coming, but when it has caused you personal grief. Catharsis is a wonderful thing, you know.
Oh, and after reading that last little bit she sent you...
Ugh, man, she is naive. Don't worry about her too much. This is a lesson she needs to learn the hard way. Had to teach it to my GF in Japan when she sent me the Dear John letter - she honestly thought we could just keep talking after that. Yeah right. When you kick a guy in the balls like that, you gotta accept the consequences.
I am feeling more and more bad for you each time I come to this thread. Girls like this, they can seem mature up until you spend some time with them and see their personal life up close and... well, personal. And then you come to realize they don't have the slightest clue as to what the hell they were doing.
Additionally, during certain holidays, most employers have a policy of paying time-and-a-half to anyone working on that holiday. This is what some of us refer to as "Holiday Time" because it's like making overtime pay without actually hitting overtime. From the sound of things, she seems to work in some office of some kind and, therefore, in the sort of place that pays this sort of wage. (Driving around in a new Jeep does not strike me as 'blue collar worker'.) During the Big Two, Christmas and Thanksgiving, the days before and after can count, too.
So, even if she was only there on the day before Thanksgiving, her boss probably made a killing on the labor-cost-vs-productivity charts.
Something to keep in mind: many of the labor laws here in the USA vary from one State/Commonwealth to the next. If you're really curious to see if you lady's employer is in violation, you might want to check out that State's laws regarding the matter. If so, then you can find her employer's legal department and tip them off... and make sure you tip off the appropriate law enforcement agency, too. That'll light a fire under their asses.
Remember, nothing says satisfaction like getting an evil boss shit-canned, especially when they not only have it coming, but when it has caused you personal grief. Catharsis is a wonderful thing, you know.
Oh, and after reading that last little bit she sent you...
Ugh, man, she is naive. Don't worry about her too much. This is a lesson she needs to learn the hard way. Had to teach it to my GF in Japan when she sent me the Dear John letter - she honestly thought we could just keep talking after that. Yeah right. When you kick a guy in the balls like that, you gotta accept the consequences.
I am feeling more and more bad for you each time I come to this thread. Girls like this, they can seem mature up until you spend some time with them and see their personal life up close and... well, personal. And then you come to realize they don't have the slightest clue as to what the hell they were doing.
K sai
01-20-2014, 07:32 AM
Quote:If so, then you can find her employer's legal department and tip themUnfortunately, she got fired from her day job a week or so after I left. Tech/hardware support at a contractor for Apple. Was making $1800 a month off of it - to me that's lousy - less than it's half what I make off my full time job, but she thought it was a good position.
off... and make sure you tip off the appropriate law enforcement agency,
too. That'll light a fire under their asses.
The part time job is at a makeup salon - she wants to move into that industry and she's good at it - but because she's trying to get the experience she lets them demand whatever. And because she's good at it, they string her along on part time pay - while she's working close to full time hours.
Apparently she was ill enough to be bed-ridden for two weeks straight - costing her the day job - which given that she was fine when I left (and I've seen her go to work when I would have considered her as sick as a dog), tells me the emotional backlash of everything falling apart hit us both equally hard. Which means she does care - just incapable of translating feelings into concrete action...esp. when they entail taking a risk!
Quote:(Driving around in a new Jeep does not strike me as 'blue collar worker'.)The jeep (Rubicon) is second hand - she's had no end of trouble with it. Keeps needing to be taken to the mechanics. Personally, I think she got ripped off at $16k.
The remaining $11k she owes to the county for the operation - her previous employer's health insurance refused to cover it as she'd only recently started (not the Apple job, she was working at a private school - she's qualified as an early childhood teacher, if you can believe it - but quit because of personality clashes with other staff) and they argued successfully that a kidney stone qualified as a 'pre existing condition' even though their doctors never caught it when she started work. I offered to help her out at the time but got leery when she inisted I write up a contract - which was weird if we were to be married...
Quote:Girls like this, they can seem mature up until you spend some time withYou're right about that. She's estranged from her family, has no close friends (besides co-workers that are constantly asking her to do stuff) and burnt her bridges now with the one person who's done nothing but support her from the time I met her. How the hell she's gonna get out from under when she's systematically sacrificed all her support network for short term gains (which she now hasn't got) I have no idea. I figure she's going to windup on the street at this rate. I gave her a golden parachute out of the whole mess - but she was so focused on 'having her cake and eating it too' - because of course, she thought she could handle it, she's got nothing...
them and see their personal life up close and... well, personal. And
then you come to realize they don't have the slightest clue as to what
the hell they were doing.
No food in the fridge, lives on avocado, yogurt and take out - works all day. Place needs a good clean, dust and vacuum. I did my best while stuck there but for obvious reasons, domestic chores are difficult for me. She dresses and makes herself up like a pint sized makeup model, but everything else is falling apart... Like you say, not the sign of maturity or wisdom.
What sucks is I still care for her. But she's completely ripped away all the other possible avenues of action. Unless she gets mature enough to see that to have me in her life she has to rebuild it under her own steam over here in Australia - and prove she can make sane decisions - there really is no future for us in any shape or form.
I know it, I get it. It still feels like I'm missing something fundamental out of my innards...
01-20-2014, 10:09 AM
Eeee. I hit the nail on the head then with that last bit... and with everything else you said, it's all coming together.
It's a bad situation, and unfortunately I can see it's only going to get worst for her. I know because it's happened to family of mine. Honestly, the only thing I think you could possibly do is contact her family and alert them to the situation if they're not aware of it already. Honestly, now I'm worried about her. Hate the thought of somebody who seems to be smart enough for Apple to contract for tech support utterly wasting herself like this. History is chock full of brilliant people like this hitting rock bottom - trouble is that they tend to go Humpty Dumpty.
Although....... I just realized we know nothing of her parents or siblings. Not that I want to know in particular, but sometimes that's part of the problem. Dysfunctional families tend to make dysfunctional people. (And believe me, as dysfunctional as my family was, I feel fortunate to be as functional as I am. >_
It's a bad situation, and unfortunately I can see it's only going to get worst for her. I know because it's happened to family of mine. Honestly, the only thing I think you could possibly do is contact her family and alert them to the situation if they're not aware of it already. Honestly, now I'm worried about her. Hate the thought of somebody who seems to be smart enough for Apple to contract for tech support utterly wasting herself like this. History is chock full of brilliant people like this hitting rock bottom - trouble is that they tend to go Humpty Dumpty.
Although....... I just realized we know nothing of her parents or siblings. Not that I want to know in particular, but sometimes that's part of the problem. Dysfunctional families tend to make dysfunctional people. (And believe me, as dysfunctional as my family was, I feel fortunate to be as functional as I am. >_
K sai
01-20-2014, 02:45 PM
Quote:Dysfunctional families tend to make dysfunctional people.For the reasons you touched on her family is a no go-er. I have personal experience with the fact that they are extremely dysfunctional.
When I was originally met her online in '01 she said she was 19. I was skeptical of this, but as she very rapidly confided in me a wish to die - due to a terribly abusive family environment (of the worst possible sort) - I resolved to be the best friend/ear/advisor/support (not boyfriend) I could - and talked her out of her original intent. It took her nearly 8 months to admit she was much younger, but by then I had spoken with her parents - most surreal conversation ever - which only confirmed her need for someone who truly gave a f*ck on her behalf.
This is why despite her constantly dropping the ball and outright screwups which hurt me terribly I maintained a connection with her through her escape into the foster care system and then on her own in until her first visit in '07 when she was 19.
It was during the visit that we both realised we had genuine romantic feelings for each other. Unfortunately, as with everything else she does - she screwed up that visit too - mainly because she had not told the complete story prior to her arrival (because she was already planning her fallback and thus hiding things - including a US relationship) and panicked once she realised my family were putting the pieces together. I paid for her ticket back to the US - because she had originally never intended to leave and had arrived on a one way ticket.
Because of the colossal screw up that was her visit, we didn't speak regularly for a long time - she dropped an email a year until '10 - when she suddenly came back into regular communication asking for a second chance and apologising etc. as well as admitting she'd screwed up etc.
Most people said I was mad to give her another chance, but I did - because I do love her and I am aware that as a survivor her behaviour was if not acceptable, at least understandable - and she needed someone who believed in her more than most. And I was hoping this time she'd get it right.
She said she'd changed and gotten professional help in the process of qualifying for her teaching certification and realised how flawed her original way of dealing with people was - and was determined to prove she'd changed and realise her dream of marrying me - and all her emails, vidchats and actions up to my visit in November last year seemed to bear it out...
But again, it was more of the same. I'm worried for her too - but I have no options left. To stay in contact would condone the abuse she is doing to me - passing on the behaviour she learnt from her family. She's made it impossible for me to help her without becoming an abuse victim myself - and that won't help either of us.
The sad thing is BA, you're completely right. When she's not making bizarre choices, she's gorgeous, brilliant, strong willed, funny, talented and compassionate. There's a reason I stuck by her for so long after repeatedly being screwed over by her. But too often, strong will becomes stubbornness, talent becomes destructive and all her strengths are her weaknesses.
So that's the whole story and it's also why I'm so torn. Everywhere I look I see the person I love destroying herself and she's completely destroyed all my attempts to help.
I wish to God I could help her - I put my entire life on the line to do so - she threw it away and told me 'There's no cost in this for you - you can go back home and back to your life'. Made me feel worthless.
Now I must cut myself off for my own survival, but it is the hardest thing I've ever done.
01-20-2014, 03:07 PM
Morning Sai,
Sorry to hear what happened to you. A similar situation happened to me last May. I had a 3 year long distance relationship that I had to terminate and I'm still feeling the pain. I met her just before I left Los Angeles for Birmingham, Alabama for a new job. I was jobless for a year before and this was something I cannot refuse. She was about 2 years from finishing college at a time. I last saw her about 2 years ago when I visited Los Angeles.
The problem with the relationship was that it felt to me that I was doing all the work. I'm the one who called her up first, talked to her and gave her support both emotional and financial. I gave her a cellphone and paid for the plan for the last 2 years, so her finances would not be strained. The only time she called me was when she needed money. I felt at times that she got the benefits of the relationship without the work.
What finally broke the relationship was when her requests for help to cover her bills started getting more frequent and getting bigger. I told her repeatedly to at least tell me in advance how much she was going to need so I can budget it and avoid those ruinous money transfer fees. Western Union must be making money hand over fist. She never did. call me in advance. It has to be immediately. The last straw was when she said she needs $800.00 by next day. Her excuse through out was that since I have a good job and she hasn't, I can afford to send her the cash.
I ended staying up all, night to decide on what to do. I finally decided I had to end it. I wired the cash to her. I then called her up and told her that I had to let her go. Her main concern that I was going to sue her to get my money back.. Called the phone company after that and told them to block her number and terminate phone service after two billing cycles.
She also comes from a dysfunctional family, from what I can gather. Looking back, I knew it was going to take a lot of effort and commitment to make a long distance relationship work, but she would rather have the benefits without the corresponding effort. A stable relationship will not occur if there is only one working at it.
At this point in time, it's more of an ache now, rather than a sharp pain. The only thing I can tell you know is to move on. Move forward. Don't do anything destructive. And I hope it works out for you.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Sorry to hear what happened to you. A similar situation happened to me last May. I had a 3 year long distance relationship that I had to terminate and I'm still feeling the pain. I met her just before I left Los Angeles for Birmingham, Alabama for a new job. I was jobless for a year before and this was something I cannot refuse. She was about 2 years from finishing college at a time. I last saw her about 2 years ago when I visited Los Angeles.
The problem with the relationship was that it felt to me that I was doing all the work. I'm the one who called her up first, talked to her and gave her support both emotional and financial. I gave her a cellphone and paid for the plan for the last 2 years, so her finances would not be strained. The only time she called me was when she needed money. I felt at times that she got the benefits of the relationship without the work.
What finally broke the relationship was when her requests for help to cover her bills started getting more frequent and getting bigger. I told her repeatedly to at least tell me in advance how much she was going to need so I can budget it and avoid those ruinous money transfer fees. Western Union must be making money hand over fist. She never did. call me in advance. It has to be immediately. The last straw was when she said she needs $800.00 by next day. Her excuse through out was that since I have a good job and she hasn't, I can afford to send her the cash.
I ended staying up all, night to decide on what to do. I finally decided I had to end it. I wired the cash to her. I then called her up and told her that I had to let her go. Her main concern that I was going to sue her to get my money back.. Called the phone company after that and told them to block her number and terminate phone service after two billing cycles.
She also comes from a dysfunctional family, from what I can gather. Looking back, I knew it was going to take a lot of effort and commitment to make a long distance relationship work, but she would rather have the benefits without the corresponding effort. A stable relationship will not occur if there is only one working at it.
At this point in time, it's more of an ache now, rather than a sharp pain. The only thing I can tell you know is to move on. Move forward. Don't do anything destructive. And I hope it works out for you.
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
01-20-2014, 06:53 PM
*Shakes head sadly.* And now I will quote Ian Malcom as played by Jeff Goldblum: "Boy, do I hate being right all the time."
K sai
01-21-2014, 04:06 AM
Quote:*Shakes head sadly.* And now I will quote Ian Malcom as played by Jeff Goldblum: "Boy, do I hate being right all the time."Does that change the advice?
01-21-2014, 05:07 AM
Can't say that it does. The problem with me is that A) I'm fairly empathic, especially for a guy, and B) been there, done that, and I even have the T-Shirt that says, "I Survived My Dysfunctional Family And All I Got Was This Stupid T-Shirt."
K sai
01-21-2014, 05:48 AM
So, just to be clear I understand, none of the history excuses her actions - and I'm therefore I'm still correct in stopping long distance communication?
This is especially relevant in view of the fact that as she's made clear that she believes anything not said in person can be considered 'speculative' and therefore ignored as convenient...? It kinda shocked me because I had repeatedly made clear over many years that I don't falsely represent - me on line/off line is the same. And she assured me she felt the same.
My parents keep telling me 'Being abused does not give you the right to abuse others' and so what's happened to her does not excuse her behavior to the one person who's stuck by her all this time. But I keep feeling like I've broken my promises to stand by her. I know it's stupid when she's the one that's voided everything, but I keep feeling like I've let her down regardless.
Does anyone think there are there any other reasonable options left that I haven't seen - apart from letting her cop the fallout from her actions without support? I don't see any...
This is especially relevant in view of the fact that as she's made clear that she believes anything not said in person can be considered 'speculative' and therefore ignored as convenient...? It kinda shocked me because I had repeatedly made clear over many years that I don't falsely represent - me on line/off line is the same. And she assured me she felt the same.
My parents keep telling me 'Being abused does not give you the right to abuse others' and so what's happened to her does not excuse her behavior to the one person who's stuck by her all this time. But I keep feeling like I've broken my promises to stand by her. I know it's stupid when she's the one that's voided everything, but I keep feeling like I've let her down regardless.
Does anyone think there are there any other reasonable options left that I haven't seen - apart from letting her cop the fallout from her actions without support? I don't see any...
01-21-2014, 06:46 AM
Yes, very much. Having a dysfunctional upbringing does not excuse being dysfunctional, it merely explains it.
Also, her treatment of you does release you from your promises to stand by her. She didn't stand by you in the resulting visitation, after all. Yes, I honestly believe that both parties should stand by each other.
Oh, and regarding reasonable options... cutting her loose and letting her cop the fallout is the only reasonable options. Anything else puts you into a bad position, either to be manipulated by her, or to be seen as meddling by others. It's not worth the hassle, even if your own sanity isn't at stake. Yes, there comes a time where, even if they've blown up their entire support mechanism, they need to rise or fall on their own.
Yes, it sounds cruel and harsh to even type this, but that might be the only way she'll learn she needs to get her house properly into order.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
Also, her treatment of you does release you from your promises to stand by her. She didn't stand by you in the resulting visitation, after all. Yes, I honestly believe that both parties should stand by each other.
Oh, and regarding reasonable options... cutting her loose and letting her cop the fallout is the only reasonable options. Anything else puts you into a bad position, either to be manipulated by her, or to be seen as meddling by others. It's not worth the hassle, even if your own sanity isn't at stake. Yes, there comes a time where, even if they've blown up their entire support mechanism, they need to rise or fall on their own.
Yes, it sounds cruel and harsh to even type this, but that might be the only way she'll learn she needs to get her house properly into order.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
01-23-2014, 02:42 PM
Quote:K sai wrote:I admire your intergrity. You would had gone down the tubes with her trying to help her. Trust me om that one.
So, just to be clear I understand, none of the history excuses her actions - and I'm therefore I'm still correct in stopping long distance communication?
This is especially relevant in view of the fact that as she's made clear that she believes anything not said in person can be considered 'speculative' and therefore ignored as convenient...? It kinda shocked me because I had repeatedly made clear over many years that I don't falsely represent - me on line/off line is the same. And she assured me she felt the same.
My parents keep telling me 'Being abused does not give you the right to abuse others' and so what's happened to her does not excuse her behavior to the one person who's stuck by her all this time. But I keep feeling like I've broken my promises to stand by her. I know it's stupid when she's the one that's voided everything, but I keep feeling like I've let her down regardless.
Does anyone think there are there any other reasonable options left that I haven't seen - apart from letting her cop the fallout from her actions without support? I don't see any...
__________________
Into terror!, Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell