Drunkard's Walk Forums

Oh my. The Democratic minority leader -- whose name escapes me -- has slammed Trump big time, and apparently with McConnell's tacit agreement, because McConnell requested that they both speak before the counting restarts.

And the Republican senator from Oklahoma is speaking now... and if what he's saying is representative of how the Republicans are feeling right now, Trump may have succeeded in uniting both parties -- against him.

Kelly Loeffler has chosen not to object to the certification of any state's votes. She may have been the senator I heard mentioned earlier.

A lot of them are now pretending that they never have been in favor of Trump.

To be fair, Loeffler might never have intended to actually object, she might have just been saying that to win yesterday.

I think, though, the fever is starting to break. It's December 6, the Holy Epiphany. The Republican Party has finally had the epiphany that then end state of Trumpism is chaos and dictatorship. And more to the point, a mighty inconvenience to themselves.

It's time to restore law and order in this country, and Joe Biden is the man to do it, along with his Attorney General Merrick Garland.

Meanwhile...

Cabinet members discuss invoking the 25th Amendment to remove Trump

Republican leaders discuss invoking the 25th Amendment

And apparently little or no overlap between the two groups...

Whoa. Lindsey Graham was very passionate about the election being done and Biden being the winner.

And now they're voting on the objection to Arizona's votes raised before the mob.

(01-06-2021, 09:52 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: [ -> ]Meanwhile...

Cabinet members discuss invoking the 25th Amendment to remove Trump

Republican leaders discuss invoking the 25th Amendment

And apparently little or no overlap between the two groups...

Discussing invoking the 25th Amendment is all well and good, but what does that amendment actually say?

Ah. Thank you, Wikipedia.

Quote:Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

So it would be simply a token show. The Cabinet says he can't do the job, he says he can, the Cabinet says again that he can't, and then Congress has to pass a two-thirds majority vote to say he can't. Even with what they just went through a few hours ago at the price of a human life, I don't see a two-thirds majority happening for anything for a few decades.

Probably be easier to impeach him a second time.

Okay... the objection to Arizona wasn't sustained... and they have to wait until the House is done with its debate on Arizona, although it's moot because the Senate killed it. But they apparently have to wait until they're done anyway, and that won't be until 11:30 or midnight. I guess I'm not going to see where this goes tonight, because while I might stay up for the House to join the Senate, I certainly can't be up late enough to see the final count.

(01-06-2021, 07:40 PM)STMPD Wrote: [ -> ]Also, while we're falling apart at the seams, the Chinese built A quantum internet. 

On the one hand, dammit. On the other hand, the sooner this is everywhere and blockchains are obsolete the better, so the bloody Bitcoin/Etherium/etc. miners stop buying up all the damn graphics cards and driving the prices for everyone who wants to actually use one card for graphics in their personal computer up to double or triple MSRP.

Lawmakers, world leaders condemn chaos at the U.S. Capitol while some call for Trump's removal

David Frum, past speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Wrote:Remove this treasonous president. Invite his own party to join the effort to remove him now, or to share now and forever Trump's guilt

(01-06-2021, 10:30 PM)robkelk Wrote: [ -> ]Lawmakers, world leaders condemn chaos at the U.S. Capitol while some call for Trump's removal

David Frum, past speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Wrote:Remove this treasonous president. Invite his own party to join the effort to remove him now, or to share now and forever Trump's guilt

I agree with that.  It seems we finally got the answer to the age old question, how long to the point of no return?.  It's now.

Senators voted to reject the first complaint 7-93.  The lower house has a lot more people willing to tie their souls to Trump for eternity.  The best we can hope for them is that their eternal torment doesn't involve too much gouging of eyeballs, I guess.

All of this could have been prevented had they voted to impeach less than a year ago.  So, so many of the Covid deaths in our country and others.  A humiliating year of darkness and death caused by a man too vain to wear a mask and too afraid to lose and too hateful to immigrants.

If you support Trump now, this is what you stand for:

Tallying the electoral has resumed... they're up to Florida.

CBS News reports that four persons have died as a result of the siege this afternoon -- one is the woman who was already known to have died, three others died due to "medical emergencies".

Pennsylvania just became the roadbump after three other objections failed for lack of a senator cosigning them. Josh Hawley was the senator who signed off on this one, to no one's surprise given his speech in the Senate earlier tonight and the jaunty little wave he gave the mob this afternoon.

...and before I could actually post that and shut down, the Senate opened up debate -- and no one wanted to debate. They're voting. The House has debates, so it still might take two hours.

(01-06-2021, 11:10 PM)Labster Wrote: [ -> ]If you support Trump now, this is what you stand for:

Oh no.  You need to be far more in-your-face about it.  Why?  Because some of the people I've known would see that and just go "HELL YEAH!"

So instead, you need to use images like these.


There is no hiding from the fact.  If you support Trump, then you abide this kind of behavior.  No amount of "MAKE AMERICA GREAT" can excuse it.  If you think that was greatness, then you're living in a fantasy world where cruelty is condoned - encouraged even - in the name of God because of some manifest destiny.

Times like this I remember late in Season 2 of The Big O, Alan Gabriel is killed by Big Duo itself when it displays the message, "CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD, YE GUILTY."  A fitting proclamation of an ending for someone who felt their god-granted destiny was to spread pain and misery.

I do tend to agree with the lowercase-e¹ evangelical Christians that Trump was chosen by God to lead us.  I just think it was in the same way as the Pharoah of the Exodus.

Quote:Because some of the people I've known would see that and just go "HELL YEAH!"

Those people are all racists, we don't need to listen to them.

I am hopeful, and it's hard to explain but, well, I have a friend in court-ordered rehab right now.  You know how they say before they want to get better, they have to hit rock bottom?  Well, we hit rock bottom yesterday.  I mean, not for Trump himself, there's no bottom there (except the one he talks out of), and if you go deep enough there are probably Balrogs.  But it's hard to deny the fact that the president backed a coup when he backed an invasion into the Capitol building with flags bearing his name and flags of a civil rebellion.  Even Wikipedia lists Trump on the [[self-coup]] page.  And that happened January 5 -- or one day before this most obvious evidence.  And if you were ever a real Republican who believed in law and order, it's hard to say that this is not a really bad look.

If you listened to some of the speeches in the Senate later, there were Republicans making full-throated defenses of Biden's victory, and accusing their colleagues of lying.  It's a turning point, at least among the leadership.  It may break the Republican Party, or it may break the country altogether, but the mood is definitely not what it was yesterday.  It was both ugly and impossible to ignore -- and it might be the excuse people need to cut their habit for good.

¹ A minor note but I'm a member of the Lutheran denomination, which are known as Evangelical Christians in Germany.  We had the word first.

(01-07-2021, 12:33 AM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: [ -> ]Pennsylvania just became the roadbump after three other objections failed for lack of a senator cosigning them.  Josh Hawley was the senator who signed off on this one, to no one's surprise given his speech in the Senate earlier tonight and the jaunty little wave he gave the mob this afternoon. 

...and before I could actually post that and shut down, the Senate opened up debate -- and no one wanted to debate.  They're voting.  The House has debates, so it still might take two hours.

Lather, rinse, repeat, lather, rinse, repeat, etc. What should have been a simple ceremony wasn't finished until 10:41 pm Honolulu time. (Good thing you've got territory so far west that it was still January 6 some place in the 50 states and therefore can be argued to be in accordance with your own laws.)

Given this precedent, I expect that only votes that need 50%+1 to pass in the next two years. You've proven that you aren't willing to work together even after the blood of citizens has been spilled in your own legislature building. Looking in from the outside, I for one find that to be disgusting.

According to Peggy, who was up watching everything on her phone all the way to the end, Pennsylvania was the last successful objection, and they finished the count at about 3:45AM EDT with the expected known results.

Trump then immediately pledged to a peaceful transition, which suggests either he knows he's dug himself in too deep to get out without at least an appearance of being not a would-be dictator (although I'd say it's a bit too late for that) or someone is sitting on him and deepfaking him acting like a reasonable human being.

Two analysis pieces:

The Register: Failed insurrection aside, Biden is going to be president in two weeks. What does it mean for tech policy?

What we might see in the next two years, maybe.


CBC: A mob failed to stop Congress from declaring Biden's win. Some warn they'll be back

Quote:So a country that has styled itself, and shed blood, as a democracy-spreading force around the world now finds itself struggling to safeguard it at home.

(01-07-2021, 02:46 AM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-06-2021, 11:10 PM)Labster Wrote: [ -> ]If you support Trump now, this is what you stand for:

Oh no.  You need to be far more in-your-face about it.  Why?  Because some of the people I've known would see that and just go "HELL YEAH!"

To quote Alexander Panetta, "Wednesday's scenes will outlive us all — images of the invasion of the U.S. Capitol, of politicians forced into hiding, congressional offices ransacked and, in a symbolic gut-punch, a Confederate flag carried triumphantly inside this most anti-Confederate landmark."

Whoever that was who did that is still fighting your Civil War, one-and-a-half centuries after everybody else decided to end it.

(01-07-2021, 02:46 AM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: [ -> ]So instead, you need to use images like these.

Lynchings

There is no hiding from the fact.  If you support Trump, then you abide this kind of behavior.  No amount of "MAKE AMERICA GREAT" can excuse it.  If you think that was greatness, then you're living in a fantasy world where cruelty is condoned - encouraged even - in the name of God because of some manifest destiny.

...

"Here is a strange and bitter crop"

Nowadays, the obvious imagery has been replaced with racist cops opening fire on anybody who doesn't have the same skin colour that they have.

And some people wonder why non-whites have been asking when America was ever great.

The woman who was shot has been identified: Ashli Babbit, an Air Force veteran and Trump supporter. The circumstances under which she was shot are still confused.

And now that he is two weeks from being shown the door, social media does what it should have done back in 2016 or 2017
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-55569604

More on the bans here:
Twitter says Trump’s account is locked, and he’s facing a ban

Trump blocked from Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat after violence on Capitol Hill

It took an assault on Congress for Facebook and Twitter to draw a line on Trump

Trump to Regain Ability to Tweet, but Facebook Ban to Continue