Had this idea pop into my head recently:
a small faction of fen and fendanes who use wavetech to search for 'mythical' and paranormal creatures/phenomenon. Stuff like Bigfoot/yeti, lake monsters, ghosts, UFO sightings. a mix of fans of X-Files (and simular shows) and fans of Ghost Hunters/Destination Truth/ect.
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin
Sure, why not?
If they actually find an alien or a cryptozoological being, what do they do? Do they welcome it with open arms? Do they take up arms against it? Do they do something else? Do they do all of these things at the same time?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
I think that such a faction may be split. One fears about alien invasions, while the other wants a peaceful contact. And then there are moderates, who first want to see what happens and manages to calm down the other two groups.
Hmm.... Even Haruhi needs her hobbies.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
Quote:One fears about alien invasions,
That one's already in existence -- the Quatermass Institute got its own page in the wiki. They're likely to be allied to this proposed group, though...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
M Fnord Wrote:Why does this need to be a faction?
Especially if it's headed by Haruhi. Best case in that circumstance, is a revolving door membership.
Of course, if that's the case, she might claim it's a faction, but most of the BNF will know better.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
I'm talking on a meta level here. Why does
this need to be a faction, with leaders and presumably some sort of organization behind it? Crazy people and con artists can exist in
any of the established factions, and to be honest we've got enough groups that somebody thought "hey wouldn't this be neat if-" and then never did anything with that I don't see why we need
another one clogging up the pipes.
(In fact, I'm considering going on a faction-clearance spree in the Wiki. Hm.)
Mr. Fnord
interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
You will hear no complaint from me if you go clearing out factions, especially those that aren't large enough to be one, and also don't really belong as subgroups of existing factions.
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
M Fnord Wrote:I'm talking on a meta level here. Why does this need to be a faction, with leaders and presumably some sort of organization behind it? Crazy people and con artists can exist in any of the established factions, and to be honest we've got enough groups that somebody thought "hey wouldn't this be neat if-" and then never did anything with that I don't see why we need another one clogging up the pipes.
(In fact, I'm considering going on a faction-clearance spree in the Wiki. Hm.)
I assume we'll keep the PC factions, the Big Six, and the ones that have already shown up in stories (Gearheads, Cybers, Supers, Heinleinians, Dandelions... who else?)
We might want to keep the existing text for the other factions but merge it onto a single page, much like the Barsoomians, Lensmen, and Quartermass Institute share the Pulpers page. After all, somebody did think these were good ideas at the time, and if someone does want to develop one of them, the existing text can be used as a starting point.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Quote:who else?
Well, the Knight Riders have a (short) story, and I would like to keep the other two earthbound factions. But that's just me.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
I think the difference between a "small faction" and a "large independent group of non-aligned Fen" is academic.
M Fnord Wrote:I'm talking on a meta level here. Why does this need to be a faction, with leaders and presumably some sort of organization behind it? Crazy people and con artists can exist in any of the established factions, and to be honest we've got enough groups that somebody thought "hey wouldn't this be neat if-" and then never did anything with that I don't see why we need another one clogging up the pipes.
(In fact, I'm considering going on a faction-clearance spree in the Wiki. Hm.)
*shrugs* it was just a plotbunny that occured to me, I've got no problem with it if those of you who actually write stuff for Fenspace decide it's not worth making note of.
I really need to get off my ass and try and do something with the characters I've already added to the setting (so long ago). 8P
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin
robkelk Wrote:I assume we'll keep the PC factions, the Big Six, and the ones that have already shown up in stories (Gearheads, Cybers, Supers, Heinleinians, Dandelions... who else?)
We might want to keep the existing text for the other factions but merge it onto a single page, much like the Barsoomians, Lensmen, and Quartermass Institute share the Pulpers page. After all, somebody did think these were good ideas at the time, and if someone does want to develop one of them, the existing text can be used as a starting point.
Looking at the page, I'm thinking of clearing out Minor Factions and combining the remnants with Pseudo-Factions, Earthbound Factions and Enemy Factions under a catch-all category like "Cultures & Subcultures," since that seems to make more sense.
Cultures would have @ first glance: Antis, Belters, Furries, Pulpers, Timelords, Herbertites, Heinleinians, Dorsai, Humorists, Milfen, Slan, Submariners, Pellucidarians, Turnerites, Knight Riders
Pages that'd get combined/cut: Extraplanetary Defense Force (cut), Pournelle Fen (combine w/ Milfen) Also cut the link to Quatermass Institute on the top page.
Bounty Hunters can go under corporations, maybe under an 'independent contractor' subhead. Koopa Kingdom moves up from corporate to the minors...
Mr. Fnord
interdimensional man of mystery
FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information
"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
robkelk Wrote:I assume we'll keep the PC factions, the Big Six, and the ones that have already shown up in stories (Gearheads, Cybers, Supers, Heinleinians, Dandelions... who else?)
We might want to keep the existing text for the other factions but merge it onto a single page, much like the Barsoomians, Lensmen, and Quartermass Institute share the Pulpers page. After all, somebody did think these were good ideas at the time, and if someone does want to develop one of them, the existing text can be used as a starting point.
M Fnord Wrote:Looking at the page, I'm thinking of clearing out Minor Factions and combining the remnants with Pseudo-Factions, Earthbound Factions and Enemy Factions under a catch-all category like "Cultures & Subcultures," since that seems to make more sense.
Cultures would have @ first glance: Antis, Belters, Furries, Pulpers, Timelords, Herbertites, Heinleinians, Dorsai, Humorists, Milfen, Slan, Submariners, Pellucidarians, Turnerites, Knight Riders
Pages that'd get combined/cut: Extraplanetary Defense Force (cut), Pournelle Fen (combine w/ Milfen) Also cut the link to Quatermass Institute on the top page.
Bounty Hunters can go under corporations, maybe under an 'independent contractor' subhead. Koopa Kingdom moves up from corporate to the minors...
I'd combine the Extraplanetary Defense Force with the rest of the Furries, under a "Known subgroups" header like the layout of the Pulpers page (I'm reluctant to just throw away text that we worked hard to get into the FenWiki), but the rest of that looks like a pretty good plan to start with.
Along the same lines as the EDF/Furries merge, I'd also put the The Anti-Earth Union Group in with the rest of the Gearheads, and the Foglios in with the other Pulpers, turning all three current pages into redirects to the subsections.
Edit: Oh, and we might want to change the lists on the Faction Guide page from "simple bullets" to "headings and brief descriptions" (by brief, I mean no more than three sentences, and that's just for the important groups). I like the idea of having a high-level overview of Fenspace cultural groups available in one place - so much so that I'd write it if nobody else does.
Re-Edit: For example, what I just put on the Faction Guide talk page for the Big Six.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
I've started the cleanup process: "The Anti-Earth Union Group", "The Extraplanetary Defense Force", and "Foglios" are now on the "Gearheads", "Furries", and "Pulpers" pages, respectively, with their subgroup-specific pages turned into redirects.
More this evening, unless I see complaints here...
Oh! More questions:
- On a meta level, why are the "Antis" separate from the "Generalists"?
- Are Pellucidarians a subtype of Pulpers? (I'm thinking "yes" here, but I'm not sure.)
- Are Slan a subtype of Pulpers? (I don't know the source material well enough to make this call.)
- Are Timelords a subtype of Pulpers? (There's a lot of stylistic overlap, but the creation time and media are different...)
- Are Rhodan Fen a subtype of Pulpers? (I'm thinking "maybe yes" here, but there is a difference between early-American and early-European SF.)
- Are Turnerites a subtype of Boskonians? (I'm thinking "no" here, but I'm not sure.)
- Should Corporations be listed in the Factions section at all, or should they go in the Finance section of "Culture of Fenspace"?
- Should Governmental organizations be listed in the Factions section at all, or should they stay where they are in the Government section of "Culture of Fenspace"?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Pelluciariands -- yes. Any Burroughs fandoms pretty much fall under pulpers
Slan: -- also yes
Timelords: No, not just because of the difference in source, but the overall feel between the two
Turnerites: No
Corps and Government bodies: Not factions, cultures
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by
Echo's Children
The Pellucidarians only take their name from Burroughs. In terms of their fandom, they cover a couple centuries and several subgenres, as well as a branch or two of pseudoscience. They are more defined by what they do than what they like (or look like).
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Progress is being made...
Slan are now on the Pulpers page.
"Fen Corporations" is now its own page (tagged with the "Finance" category) - at the moment, that page has a stub tag, an appropriate quotation, a two-sentence header, and a big list of companies. Everybody except the Koopa Kingdom made it over, as per Mal's note above. Each Corporation page now has a "Corporations" navbox instead of the Factions navbox.
Still working...
Edit: More progress: Pournelle Fen are now listed on the Military Fen page.
Question: Should the Dorsai and the Roughriders - Fenspace's two big mercenary groups - be moved into their own group somewhere? If so, should that group be on the Factions page or the Corporations page?
Pausing this cleanup until that question is answered...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Roughriders and Dorsai aren't the only Fenspace mercenary groups, they're just the biggest ones named. Though, I think they should go with the Bounty Hunters.
It'd make sense to rename that page as 'Businesses' perhaps, since not all fen-businesses are Corporations, but they might still be notable.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
Dartz Wrote:It'd make sense to rename that page as 'Businesses' perhaps, since not all fen-businesses are Corporations, but they might still be notable.
I agree to this, not all Fenspace Corporations are there to make money. Some may work on the base of gifts or favors, others might have special ideas who they work for.
Dartz Wrote:It'd make sense to rename that page as 'Businesses' perhaps, since not all fen-businesses are Corporations, but they might still be notable.
HRogge Wrote:I agree to this, not all Fenspace Corporations are there to make money. Some may work on the base of gifts or favors, others might have special ideas who they work for.
And those businesses are listed under "Non-Governmental Organizations" (Mal's name, not mine). Should they stay there?
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Perhaps we need these categories:
Government Organizations
Business and Corporate Organizations
Paramilitary Organizations
Charitable and Other Organizations
--
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
I think "non-governmental" works... too many categories means we have "nothing" inside each of them.
Government Organizations are part of either a Faction or the Convention as a whole, and would be subordinate to their pages (and probably go in the same category as their parent org.). Paramilitary Orgs are either a business or part of a Faction (or a Faction unto themselves). Remember that things can be in multiple categories (technically speaking; I'm not in a position to judge whether it's a good idea or not).
Rob, Stellvia is generally treated as a Faction, but it's organized as a business, not a bureaucracy. Category:Factions, Category:Businesses, or both?
Assuming Category:Mercenary Groups is a subcategory of Category:Businesses, the above question also applies to BA with regards to the Roughriders.
I propose that any group where to be a member is automatically to be an employee should be regarded as a business. "She's a Stellvian" tells you something quite different about a person than "She's a Browncoat". It doesn't matter if the group is there to make money or even if the members get paid or not. In certain groups, it is impossible to be a member and not actively working in the interests of the whole group.
Another gauge of "Businessness" could be if there are separate legislative and executive branches of government: It's best-developed for the Wizards, for whom the structure of the legislative body is discussed in detail, but even the towns of the Jovian moons probably have a town council responsible for decision-making separate from the civil engineers responsible for carrying those decisions out. Not the case with Stellvia or the Roughriders, whose only legislature is the Convention itself and whose every decision is executive.
The Soviets make things blurry. In their early years, they are pretty clearly a paramilitary organization, with a military structure. But once they transition to democratic decision-making, they are a business by the first test but not by the second (granted, direct democracy means that there's no separate legislative body, but legislation is going on).