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While writing the last chapter on Marduk, I got the inspiration for this ship. I meant to stay away form the war, because I did not want to turn my characters into military powers, but I realized than Genesis will be a mayor company in the Belt, so staying safe in Luna was not an option. And then I realized than with the new plot of Belter refugees in Marduk, I had all the crews I could need. The design is (hopefully) a good compromise between creating a battle fleet with no visible resources and doing nothing while your neighbour families are dieing.
I would specially like comments in ship size, tonnage and crew, because I chose the numbers more or less at random. I did not want it to be too big, so it is 30 m, about the same size of the Adler class transport, but twice the weight (700 tons) due to the massive armor. the crew is ten people (pilots, gunners, damage control, and medical) and the marines are the part were I have more trouble. I have settled in a platoon of 50, but I have no idea it it will be too many or too few.

 

Ariete class APC ship.

Originally meant to be a weaponized version of Genesis C&D construction ships, the end design mutated to the Ariete ("Battering Ram") class of armoured personnel carriers.

The Ariete ships take advantage of Genesis' expertise in building very though ships, and breaking big rocks. Their function is simple, as shown in the class designation: They ram enemy ships, and then unload a Marine boarding party inside .

The ships design is simple. It is about 30 m, long, and the front armour narrows until it ends in a sharpened ram, designed to open once it has broken the enemy hull to allow the marines to board. It weights 700 tons, and so it is the slower ship of its size.

Most of its weight consists in thick, and super dense, armour plating: The ship is designed for one purpose: To brush off massive amounts of damage, and protect its crew until they have taken the enemy ship. While it has artificial gravity, it has to be turned off in combat; then all the gravity generators and kinetic shields are used to maintain structural integrity and keep the interior (with the crew and engines) safe from the kinetic energy caused by the crash.

It has a crew of 10, plus a detachment of 50 marines. The interior is sparse, but it has a tiny emergency surgery.

While it would outright destroy any small ship, the lack of speed and manoeuvrability compared with small craft means they seldom get the chance; it is meant to attack space vessels, stations and habitats. The ship will usually need refitting after a successful boarding.

Weapons:

Weapons are a problem with this design, as they will either hang outside the hull, and be destroyed when the ship rams an enemy, or need weapon ports, which will weaken the armour.

The Aries only have three weapon ports, all in the back; in the top they have the kinetic cannon, and on both flanks they have one weapon port, which can be used for several weapons.

The Marduk shipyards do not have hard tech weapon production capacity: They will only install the Kinetic cannon, a purely 'waved “weapon” Originally a Federation design, it is yet another attempt to create a tractor bean. The cannon will stop any vehicle on its tracks (with a spectacular show of light, so the theory is than it changes kinetic energy into electromagnetic radiation) for several seconds, but neither it nor its crew will be damaged; after a short time it will move again (it varies, with the quality of the ship drive. Moving objects with no drives, like small asteroids or cannonballs, will not start moving again until more force is applied; but it never has been longer than 20 seconds so far). It is not very useful in combat, but it will grant a few seconds of advantage for the ramming.

The flank weapon ports leave the shipyards empty; Great Justice will install weapons there after the ship is on their hands. The eventual standard weapon will be a point defence system once the computer tracking tech gets good enough for it; but for the moment the usual weapon is a heavy machine gun (a missile launcher can be fitted, but hold space for ammo inside the ship is too small for a long engagement).

History:

By 2012, Genesis main market was the Belt. With the Boskonian War raging there, a good percentage of its production capacities in Luna stood idle.

He offered Great Justice the use of Marduk shipyards as a repair facility, and began to design a combat vessel.

An initial lack of manpower soon disappeared once he opened Plinius crater to Belter refugees; he found himself with literal thousand of workers -enthusiastic, pro-war workers.

While he began the design of a few fancy (and, with his military experience, probably useless on the real world) capital ships, he decided to focus in his strengths, resistant materials and very, very tough ships.

The Aries launched in January 2013, with a crew of Belter marines. Over the course of the war, a total of twelve Ariete ships were built, all of then crewed by Belter refugees in Luna. They were very useful in breaching Boskonian fortified positions, and all twelve were part of the Fall of Boskone Prime

After the end of the war, Oscar Vykos gave ten of the ships to Great Justice; the other two returned to Marduk and were “decommissioned” (the message he sent back the GJ did have the quotes), but he also returned the last two ships' hardtech weapons, so GJ did not protest). As far as anyone knows, no new Arietes have been built, either for Genesis or for Great Justice.

The Besieger:

This design was a huge super-carrier craft. Several hundred meters long, it holds launch bays for a dozen Arietes, thirty fighter craft, weapons depots, a small repair drydock, medical station, and living quarters for the crew and marines.

It is the only of the initial “fancy designs” than Oscar finished; but at the end of the War, only the structure was finished. Instead of recycling the materials (which GJ had paid for, anyway) he sent the whole unfinished thing to Great Justice, whom carted it to float somewhere in the Belt, ready to pick up the construction back sometime should it even be necessary (there are rumours than not only the structure, but the engines, were finished by the end of the war. Vykos will only answer with “no comment”, while GJ speakers will say then information about battleship construction rates is classified.

HRogge

Rakhasa Wrote:Originally meant to be a weaponized version of Genesis C&D construction ships, the end design mutated to the Ariete ("Battering Ram") class of armoured personnel carriers.

Sounds like a reasonable plan to develop a ship during the Boskone war...

"We need something armed and armored!" "We have this ship, lets just add some armor and weapons..." Which turns into a happy "redesign chase... Smile

Quote:The Marduk shipyards do not have hard tech weapon production capacity: They will only install the Kinetic cannon, a purely 'waved “weapon” Originally a Federation design, it is yet another attempt to create a tractor bean. The cannon will stop any vehicle on its tracks (with a spectacular show of light, so the theory is than it changes kinetic energy into electromagnetic radiation) for several seconds, but neither it nor its crew will be damaged; after a short time it will move again (it varies, with the quality of the ship drive. Moving objects with no drives, like small asteroids or cannonballs, will not start moving again until more force is applied; but it never has been longer than 20 seconds so far). It is not very useful in combat, but it will grant a few seconds of advantage for the ramming.

Catgirl Industries would like to acquire the Handwavium strain for this system... *G*

Quote:The Aries launched in January 2013, with a crew of Belter marines. Over the course of the war, a total of twelve Ariete ships were built, all of then crewed by Belter refugees in Luna. They were very useful in breaching Boskonian fortified positions, and all twelve were part of the Fall of Boskone Prime
Building 9 more ships within one year is quite a lot... how much of Marduk city is used as a shipyard?

Quote:The Besieger:

This design was a huge super-carrier craft. Several hundred meters long, it holds launch bays for a dozen Arietes, thirty fighter craft, weapons depots, a small repair drydock, medical station, and living quarters for the crew and marines.

It is the only of the initial “fancy designs” than Oscar finished; but at the end of the War, only the structure was finished. Instead of recycling the materials (which GJ had paid for, anyway) he sent the whole unfinished thing to Great Justice, whom carted it to float somewhere in the Belt, ready to pick up the construction back sometime should it even be necessary (there are rumours than not only the structure, but the engines, were finished by the end of the war. Vykos will only answer with “no comment”, while GJ speakers will say then information about battleship construction rates is classified.

Hmm...
Quote:[b]HRogge wrote:[/b]


Catgirl Industries would like to acquire the Handwavium strain for this system... *G*
Oscar did not create they system (even if he is a Mad, I wanted to avoid too many expertises, so weapon systems by late 2012 was too much). As I said, it is a Federation design; be bough the fisrt one, and the handwavium strain to build the rest.
I don't know if the trekkies would sell the designs and strain when there is not a war going one, but it is a 'wave weapon system, so it is usually safe for people; I don't see any reason why they would not sell if (well, maybe if the girls joined the Galactic Republic or some other aberration)

Quote:Building 9 more ships within one year is quite a lot... how much of Marduk city is used as a shipyard?
It is a lot, in hindsight. (and worse, it is 11 more ships, not 9, for a full dozen). I think only six will be fully finished, and the other six will have only the hull done by the end, not even engines (they may have been fitted with engines in a rush, and sent with no weapons or infirmary services just in time for the Fall of Boskone Prime)
The Marduk shipyards, before and after the war, aren't very important: They build Genesis construction ships, mostly. But they are, size-wise, big, because Genesis projects are big; and there is an entire materials industry nearby, because that's one of the things Genesis creates (space habitat domes need very hardy beams, to say nothing of the massive supports of Marduk and Kandor domes) There is also the big industrial dome outsde the city, wich has additional industries for droids, electronics and  such.
During the war, trough, there were tens of thousands of belter refugees around. And every one of then was very motivated in the war effort, obviously. Their labor finished the city in record time, build the defenses, expanded the shipyard capacity tenfold, provided crew for the ships and manned the Kandor and Marduk militias. (there was never even the risk of an actual Boskonian attack in Marduk or all of Luna, but of course the belters will brag than this all was due to their defences)

Quote:Hmm...
The Besieger is a flight of fancy; I won't be hurt or offended it it is not allowed: I made it because I planed to build a huge, 40k flying cathedral style ship sometime after the war, and I though "what would give Oscar the idea?"
And talking about 40k ships, the armoured front of the ships (which now than I think on it, must have some fancy nautical name ~runs to wikipedia~), the bow looks rather line the bow of 40k equivalents. Well, since it was what gave me the idea ("this thing looks like it was built for ramming") it is no surprise. But that may add the ocasional quirk...
I should clarify than when I say "finished structure" I meant just the skeleton of the ship; none of the interior decks are even started, and the outer hull itself is half done. No weapons, life support, or engines at all. Or so it is claimed (but then, it did  move somehow from Luna to wherever Great Justice have drydocked it...)

HRogge

Rakhasa Wrote:
Quote:[b]HRogge wrote:[/b]


Catgirl Industries would like to acquire the Handwavium strain for this system... *G*
Oscar did not create they system (even if he is a Mad, I wanted to avoid too many expertises, so weapon systems by late 2012 was too much). As I said, it is a Federation design; be bough the fisrt one, and the handwavium strain to build the rest.
I don't know if the trekkies would sell the designs and strain when there is not a war going one, but it is a 'wave weapon system, so it is usually safe for people; I don't see any reason why they would not sell if (well, maybe if the girls joined the Galactic Republic or some other aberration)

The earliest time CI would ask for the design would be 2017 or maybe even 2019... (CI was founded in 2015, after the war ended). If its really a Trekkie design, CI will ask them about it.

Quote:
Quote:Building 9 more ships within one year is quite a lot... how much of Marduk city is used as a shipyard?
It is a lot, in hindsight. (and worse, it is 11 more ships, not 9, for a full dozen). I think only six will be fully finished, and the other six will have only the hull done by the end, not even engines (they may have been fitted with engines in a rush, and sent with no weapons or infirmary services just in time for the Fall of Boskone Prime)
The Marduk shipyards, before and after the war, aren't very important: They build Genesis construction ships, mostly. But they are, size-wise, big, because Genesis projects are big; and there is an entire materials industry nearby, because that's one of the things Genesis creates (space habitat domes need very hardy beams, to say nothing of the massive supports of Marduk and Kandor domes) There is also the big industrial dome outsde the city, wich has additional industries for droids, electronics and  such.
During the war, trough, there were tens of thousands of belter refugees around. And every one of then was very motivated in the war effort, obviously. Their labor finished the city in record time, build the defenses, expanded the shipyard capacity tenfold, provided crew for the ships and manned the Kandor and Marduk militias. (there was never even the risk of an actual Boskonian attack in Marduk or all of Luna, but of course the belters will brag than this all was due to their defences)

Maybe you should write a bit more about this in the Marduk writeup. Smile
Quote:HRogge wrote:
Maybe you should write a bit more about this in the Marduk writeup. Smile
Oh, I will, when I talk about the saceport and industrial dome (checks schedule) it should be three installments form the current one, after the tourist area and the crater villages; don't worry.
Short answer, Marduk Spaceport is small (compared with Port Luna or Kandor) in actual passenger traffic, but it has massive facilties, because Genesis will move hundreds of tons of raw and processed materials to and from the industial zone (metals from the belt go in, and beans, plating and piping come out). So, when it needs to, and if it has the manpower available, it can expand its activity tenfold.
And since a picture is good, this is both the inspiration and how the bow of Aries ships look (the rest of the ship is simple, without all those fancy turrets and towers and whatnot, but one day, yes, one day... MUAHAHAHA!!!!). It is from  the cover of Warhammer Gothic, I think.
[Image: Battlefleet_gothic_2163613.jpg]

Also, this has not been designed nor built, but should I even have to build a tank this is the fisrt prototype:
[Image: Tank2.jpg]

Fun Tyrant edit: please resize or link huge images
Complains of the downtrodden proletariat: I barely had time to notice the size and open paint before the hardworking mods acted... that's fast... but on the positive size, it saved me the effort to resize the image...
I think the Besieger is definitely Infinities material. Distantly so.

Don't worry. I got a hankering to bring Yamato-class and Queen Emeraldas-class ships to the party someday. Probably Arcadia too, just for kicks. Wink

HRogge

blackaeronaut Wrote:I think the Besieger is definitely Infinities material. Distantly so.

Don't worry. I got a hankering to bring Yamato-class and Queen Emeraldas-class ships to the party someday. Probably Arcadia too, just for kicks. Wink

Ahh yeah... the sweet dreams of 'distant infinities' projects... Smile

Ace Dreamer

Quote:Kinetic cannon, a purely 'waved “weapon” Originally a Federation design,
it is yet another attempt to create a tractor bean. The cannon will
stop any vehicle on its tracks (with a spectacular show of light, so the
theory is than it changes kinetic energy into electromagnetic
radiation) for several seconds, but neither it nor its crew will be
damaged; after a short time it will move again (it varies, with the
quality of the ship drive. Moving objects with no drives, like small
asteroids or cannonballs, will not start moving again until more force
is applied; but it never has been longer than 20 seconds so far). It is
not very useful in combat, but it will grant a few seconds of advantage
for the ramming.
What if a ship's drive doesn't give the vehicle any kinetic energy?  I'm unsure whether all vehicles in Fenspace are supposed to use, at the basic level, the same drive tech.  My reading is most vehicles have some sort of gravity drive, which out of atmosphere becomes a 'speed drive', with a maximum velocity based on vehicle mass - mass also seems to affect maneuverability.
Another sort of drive might be like the 'Doc' Smith 'Bergenholm'[1], a 'free' drive which cancels the inertia of an object; you could claim that ST Impulse drives partially cancel inertia by pushing the vehicle mass into sub-space, which is the reason reaction jets are so effective for such massive vehicles.  A 'free' drive is attractive because it cannot ram - it just stops when the vehicle touches a mass too large for its drive field to pick-up and move with it.  The drive field also protects from space debris - it's just swept up by the drive at no risk.  For elegance assume the drive field neutralises any inertial differences in use - space dust is not a problem when you turn the drive field off, and you are inertia- matched with anything you are in contact, or docked, with.
More sophisticated versions of 'free' drive, sometimes called Momentum Generators, can generate an artificial gravity field within them, and the contents of the field is not inertia-free (you might suspect being inertia-free could do horrible things to your metabolism).  These are the drives that allow sudden right-angle turns, and reversal of direction.  Nice to move around with, but totally useless if you want a kinetic weapon.
Do these sort of drives exist in Fenspace?  The area seems a bit fuzzy.
If Momentum Generators drives do exist then a weapon, like the Kinetic Cannon, which cancels their kinetic energy from relative velocity would arguably do nothing to them.  As they have only a pseudo velocity not a real one.  Or, the two fields might interact in a variety of 'interesting ways'.
What do people think?
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind

HRogge

Ace Dreamer Wrote:What if a ship's drive doesn't give the vehicle any kinetic energy?  I'm unsure whether all vehicles in Fenspace are supposed to use, at the basic level, the same drive tech.  My reading is most vehicles have some sort of gravity drive, which out of atmosphere becomes a 'speed drive', with a maximum velocity based on vehicle mass - mass also seems to affect maneuverability.

Fenspace has (as the wiki says) two classes of drives...

"Speed Drives" who do not generate much kinetic energy but mostly using some strange "trick" to get a ship fast, which makes it slow down as you switch down the drive.
"Acceleration drives" who work similar to to normal space drives, only MUCH MORE effective than they should be.

We have already enough headaches with these two types of drives, I don't think we want a third one.

Ace Dreamer

Thanks, that makes sense.  I've read the Fenspace wiki several times, but I think it makes a bit more sense to me now.
The 'speed drive' sounds very like the Momentum Generator I was talking about, so that already exists.
The 'acceleration drive' sounds like the Star Trek enhanced reaction drive, or any drive where you're not having to push the whole mass of the vehicle around.
I'm guessing the 'Kinetic Cannon' would definitely work on the second of these, but I'm much less sure about how it would work on a 'speed drive' - though I guess it could mess-up the drive field.
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
Actually, my understanding is than anything than moves has kinetic energy (since that is the definition of kintetic, after all). The cannon eliminates it, stopping the vehicle in its tracks (we can take for granted than there are size limits, of course; no stopping moons)

That's when the drive enters in the ecuation: The ship has stopped, but it still has engines, presumably running, so it only has a few seconds (dependin ot the drive eficiency) before the enemy ship is moving again. Remember than purely waved weapons do not like to actually hurt, so the ship is intact, except for some soot covering it. Well, until 700 tons of batle armor crash into its hull, of course.

Things with no drive -like a small asteroid- would stop completely, and would remain there for a much longer time until solar gravity made it start orbiting again.

Ace Dreamer

I think you need to think very carefully about frames of reference, here...

Kinetic energy comes from something moving relative to something else. If you cancelled the kinetic energy relative to the Sun then the object would be in a nice safe orbit, I think (the handwavium would like that). I'm pretty sure you are not messing with the kinetic energy due to movement relative to the galaxy, or relative to the local group of galaxies. I think your current logic assumes an absolute frame of reference.

There may be problems with the pseudo physics used by this weapon, making sure people agree about what it does. I'm assuming that the cannon is limited by either the mass of the vehicle it's mounted on, or the power of the drive of that vehicle, how much can it move around. And it can't affect anything more massive than those limits.

If what the cannon does is knock-out the vehicle's ability to maneuver that would be nearly as useful. So it continues at the same velocity. But, that'd be a totally different sort of way of working.

I don't think I've got any good answers here. Sorry...
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
Sigh. Don't worry, I do know than physics is not my strongest field. But yes, it assumes it is relative to the sun. After all, hadwavium usually works by assumptions, not physics, and most people think than the sun is just out there, static in space; we seldom realize than it is speeding like a madman in an orbit of the galactic core.
So, Kinetic cannon mark two, AKA the Gravitic Cannon. This is yet another attempt by the Federation to build Tractor beans from the original Wave Convoy design. As usual, it failed, but at least it created a useful design. When it impacts another ship, it is surrounded by explosion of lightning bolts, and, should the ship have it,  the drives exhaust will explode in a shower of sparks; the ship will rotate chaotically in space for a few seconds, and then will end up stopped, always facing the original position of the cannon.

Despite the light show, the engines are not damaged. Once the sparks are gone (between three and five seconds, depending on city size) the ship can start moving and maneuver away from the cannon.

The Ariete pilots have become experienced in guessing where the enemy ship will end up stopping after its tumbles, and use the tiee before the enemy pilot regains its bearings to ram the ship -but in high maneuverability ships, or those with experienced pilots, they aren't always fast enough.

The rest of GJ pilots, which cannot believe their eyes when their see the Aries speeding towards a ship than has lost control, simply thing their colleagues are batshit crazy. Except fighter pilots, of course, wich are crazier anyway.

So, which of the two versions is better for fenspace?

HRogge

I see no problem with this kind of cannon, it works at we would expect to see it in a movie. I would not worry too much about the frame of reference, lets just assume it normally stops the object in a "reasonable" frame of reference. The cannon will not be a way to accelerate objects, just because the cannon is moving very fast over the surface of a planet. But its the same issue with speed drives and their "slowdown", this slowdown also seems to choose a reasonable frame of reference.

Just one additional thought, maybe there should be some limit on the size or momentum of the object you stop with it (relative to the energy demands and size of the cannon). I don't think we want a cannon that stops extinction level event asteroids with hand pistols. Wink
Well, I took size restrictions for granted. Which with 'wavium probably is not al that safe, assumtions and all.

Lets see. The standard Ariete cannon is, say, five meters lond and one meter wide, mounted on roof (at the back, because else it will be destroyed once the front has crashed into a ship). It needs a (censored) amount of energy, so the ship's lights will flicker when shot. Well, this happens no matter how poweful the power station is, so probably is a quirk.

It will stop anything up to (checks ship stadistics) 100 m. or so; it would only slow a luxury cruise ship ( the Pearl Starways is 178x30 m.), and be a minor inconvenience to a Gagarin class ship (133x228x20). For some reason, this is a case of Size Matters: A dense iron-nickel asteroid and an space zeppeling full of helium the same lentgh will stop the same way.

Bigger ships, of course, are slower, so there is not much need for the cannon.

Oscar also had cannons twice the size installed in Marduk outer walls during the war, wich stop proportionally bigger ships (and made the lights of the entire city flicker), but they have never been used except for trials. The Federation thenselves have both smaller and bigger cannons (it is said then Starbase 1 has cannons able to stop any ship in fenspace)

HRogge

I was thinking about to use it for point defense against kinetic projectiles of large coilguns or missiles. Instead of trying to hit them with a laser (or with another kinetic projectile), try to hit it with a "stopper" beam. Some kind of active defense before it hits the shield/armor.

And one that is more acceptable in the post-Boskone-war era of Fenspace because it cannot kill things.
Good idea. It needs to hit a bullet in flight, through, so would need pretty good targeting computers, wich is why I did not add it. When did Memnosine's honey appear in the market? ~checks wiki~ It does not say.
That woud be a good use for the smaller, machine gun sized versions, wich would be useless agains most craft. Mmm. Once the computer targeting is developed, I think than the Ariete side hard tech weapons will be changed to point-defense.
And I suspect than awakened AI born from advanced point-defense systems will fall into the weird side of the personality line...

HRogge

If nobody else will claim it before, Catgirl Industries might open source a design for a "point defense stopper gun" in early 2018, it fits well at the end of a story I am currently working on. Smile
Go ahead, while writing on this thread I have decided than Oscar has too many thing to do already until we have well into infinities. While he will desing new ships if the situation (or the plot) cals for it, weapons design will be something he does not touch, adapting outside designs for his purpose if he needs it. And he will tend to always use waved weapons when possible. He is a builder (eventually, in fact, his dream is to be a builder of worlds, terraforming entire planets), not a warrior.

Once we are in Infnities, though, things will change. "That is not a moon"
Rakhasa Wrote:When did Memnosine's honey appear in the market? ~checks wiki~ It does not say.
It will appear in Legend of Galactic Girls, so it's available before the end of the Boskone War. How much before... we never decided.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012