Drunkard's Walk Forums

THEY'RE BACK!
Lincoln: "The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation."
Ko3S: "More slaves for the Kingdom."
Jonas: "...We may have picked a bad time."

Gaaaah. cityofheroes.com is blocked by the nannyware here. Who are back?
No, don't answer that. By the time I read it, I'll be able to check from home.
It's still damned annoying.

-- Bob
---------
The Internet Is For Norns.

Ack! The sky is falling!...Wait, that's just Rikti...Oh, wait...Ack! It's the Rikti!
Heh. It appears we made a quote the character a mini-story by accident. Well, we'll just update, and give various quotes then...
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Hero Side
Infinity:
H.D.: ...Huh. Again?..Ah well. Well, they coudlnt' stand against a dragon in training last time, let's see if they can deal with a true dragon this time. *Grin*
Fanged Wyvern: Oi! It was your lots fault that I got turned -into- a Wyvern..Thanks, by the way, I got to meet Georgina for that...I'm still beating you though!
Nevermore: Hm. I wonder if Rikti make funnies sounds then the Skulls...
Mukruo:...Aw, come on! As if fighting demons and wooing Mira wasn't tough enough!?! I'm calling Angel, and by god, they're -all- coming down here to help me...
Shilo: Hey! Don't shoot at Alan!...Don't shoot at -me- either!..Grrr...Fine, be that way! *Makes Dark Tentacles chase them*
Chihei Haradachi: Well..This is rathar..stressful...
Bonus: Yofun: RAAWWWAR! PUNY ALIEN MAN WAKE YOFUN UP! YOFUN CRUSH THEM!
Energy Ant: *Watches the oncoming invasion*...*Puts on a little chef's hat, and apron, and lights up the grill* *Singing* Ant's gonna cook him up some Rikti, Ant's gonna have a Rikti buffet...
Virtue:
Stephnie Jenova: OI! You lot -hurt- my friends, made Brightsky's life hell, -brought- my -insane- Uncle back, and now you're invading -again-? Oh, -Meteor- no, you're going -down!
Sarah Evan: Hm...mabye I should ask for a raise
Triumph:
Shara of the Sight: I-i won't l-let you hurt my friends!
M-mind C-crush!
Detective Joe Jenova:...Crap. As if protecting the Facets wasn't hard enough...
Champion:
Lukin: Ack! Rikti! You won't get Lukin again, he will go down fighting for his friends! And he won't let you take them away!
----------------
We'll do more later...Goign to bed now.

Its raining BEMs hallelujah!
Its raining BEMs from the sky
Pink, Grey, Psychic twats!
Well stomp their heads
And kick their nuts!

Yukiyo: "Oh my god, really? The Rikti are coming?...Who are the Rikti?"

Superball: "Hoo boy. Wasn't this supposed to be over already? What were the last five years, the intermission? You should have warned me! I'd have gone to the bathroom during the break! Or bought some popcorn or something..."
Space Mage: "Ahhh! Nasty aliens! NASTY ALIENS! And...and...it's a sequel too! Those are never good. But...hmmm, I guess it's the second Rikti invasion so it's an even-numbered sequel and those are okay, and it is a summer movi---wait, it's not a movie...ahhh! ALIENS! ALIENS!"
Syndesis: "Aw no, not again. Damnit, damnit, damnit where did I put my freakin' Vanguard security ID, nnghh...okay, think, think, those are the boxes I never unpacked when I got this apartment, so...right...oka---jeeeeeez did I never wash the bloodstains out of this costume? Daaaaamn...alright, pockets, pockets...right! Wait. Hn. I hope this thing hasn't expired or something..."
Light Errant: "Wh...wh---NO FAIR!"
Astreal: "ET go home."
Circuit-3: "I blame Portal Corp. We should sue."
Nia: "Nia think is being very big hunt."
Noonlighter: "Bloody hell, do you have any idea how hard it is to clean alien guts off this suit? There'd better be some kinda reward for this!"
Coordinator: "Hm. New technology. This could be profitable. If, of course, we don't all die first. But that's business."
Doc Steampunk: "Pitiful creatures! When I recover my marvelous ether-spanning CHRONOSUIT, I shall erase these impudent degenerates from EXISTENCE! BWAHAHAHAHAHA! THEY! WILL! PAY!"
Obsolete: "-klik- That's not a moon, that's a space station!"
-- Acyl

Wide Receiver: "Hello, Sis? Momma's set in the base. We set for the wishbone play? Right."
Minerva Heisman: "Remember ME, Te'Khar? Time for some Kheldian PAYBACK!"
QB Kitsune: "Aaaaah! Rikti Clowns! Hold me, Glaive!"
Lady Nogitsune: "Yare yare, this one had thought Khu'rekt had reached an arrangement wih Recluse-dono... This one wonders if perhaps they realize they have interrupted her 'honeymoon....'"
Ebon Fox: 'Most ominous."
Rami Ledet: "Ooo-tcha! Invading twice in five planetary cycles? That's not proper-tcha!"
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

Lora'Lai: "Neither of my past selves, human or Kheldian, was here when the Rikti invaded the last time. We didn't live through those times, but we saw the aftermath, and we've fought the Rikti since, both as human and Peacebringer. I can tell you this much - the heroes of Earth, by themselves, were enough to stop the invasion the last time, and you are more than capable of doing so again. And you'll have help this time as well. Kheldians have only too much experience with invaders and invasions. And Peacebringer and Warshade stand openly with you side by side. This is our home too! And we'd rather shed our essence in the SUN than give it up to these abominations! They have NO IDEA what they've roused!!"
Stalnoy Volk: *Heavy Sigh* "This again? Did you not learn lesson last time?"
Cyberman 8: "Welcome to Earth!"
-Logan
-----------------
"Wake up! Time for SCIENCE!"
-Adam Savage
-----------------

Hi folks!
-----------------
MechaDeuce: "Sonofa..." *BLAM!BLAM!BLAMBLAMBLAM!* *skzzzt...Click!* *SkrrrrEEEEEEEEEEE-BWA-KOOOOOOM!!!!"
SkyKnight: "Dammit, get me that freaking uplink to the orbital particle beam satellites NOW!!"
Bladestryke: "Hello! My name is Bladestryke. You alien bastards killed my brother, prepare to DIE!"
Saberkitten: *disgusted sigh* "Just great. Like I didn't have enough problems already."
Adamantium Girl: "Ohhhh, there goes my costume replacement budget for the YEAR."
^_^
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In a semi-related note, I took a quick peek at the forums discussing Issue 10. And I just have to say that while I think the new issue looks interesting and I'm happy that it's coming out, I just don't see why everyone's so jazzed about teaming with the villain side of things. I don't find CoV compelling at all, which is why I can count on one hand the number of times in the last two years I've actually logged in as a villain. I just do NOT get it.... *sigh*
Can anyone explain?

Bert V.V.
skyknight@sentex.net

Quote:

---

In a semi-related note, I took a quick peek at the forums discussing Issue 10. And I just have to say that while I think the new issue looks interesting and I'm happy that it's coming out, I just don't see why everyone's so jazzed about teaming with the villain side of things. I don't find CoV compelling at all, which is why I can count on one hand the number of times in the last two years I've actually logged in as a villain. I just do NOT get it.... *sigh*

---

People like the fact that they can play the archtype they want without having to worry "can i find a team?". I LOVE playing my villains, but most of you guys play heroes...

Corrupted Flame - "No. This planet is MY playground, not yours. Get the hell out of my skies!"

Mira Wolf-Rayet: "BURN! BURN! BUUURRRNN!!"
Schwartzschild: "Dammit. Am I ever gonna be able to finish my dissertation?"
Kara of the Thunder: "Go away, you monsters! THUNDER RAGE!"
Jen Etroica: "How inconvenient."
Brightsky: "...no. Not again. Goddammit, you won't! NOT AGAIN!"

===============================================
"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."

E'liya: "Well, Well, Well.... Help crack another Rikti Mothership, or search for their homeworld on a reverse Portal Trace? Hm... Decisions, Decisions...."
Brahela: "Geez. I remember you idiots from Kansas City. Don't ya ever learn?"
Reyshal: "So these things tried to invade once before? Well, this One shall simply see that they are shown to the door -- Death's Door -- again. Now where did I put my spellbook...?"
Myrtai: "Interference... Not good. But I wonder what their weight in souls is...?"Without a word...

Tachiko: "Ohhh, just wonderful, just wonderful. FREEZE, YOU ALIEN CREEPS!"
Misao: "Uhm. Raikage-sama? This is now an SSS-plus-plus class mission. I want a raise."--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

Quote:

---

In a semi-related note, I took a quick peek at the forums discussing Issue 10. And I just have to say that while I think the new issue looks interesting and I'm happy that it's coming out, I just don't see why everyone's so jazzed about teaming with the villain side of things. I don't find CoV compelling at all, which is why I can count on one hand the number of times in the last two years I've actually logged in as a villain. I just do NOT get it.... *sigh*
Can anyone explain?

---

From a personal standpoint, some people like playing various flavors of villain more than others do.
From a gameplay perspective, CoV is simply put together better. The broker missions unlocking regular contacts, every one of whom has a story arc, makes way more sense than the near-random hither-and-yon-ness of CoH's mission system. It's a lot easier for a novice player to get into.
--Sam
Number A: "Oh good, a challenge."
Sailor Paragon: "In the name of the city, I will MESS YOU UP!"
Inez: "All right, you alien pendojos, prepare to be set en fiesta!"
Evil Midnight Lurker: "So he says to me, he says, there's a whole freakin' ARMADA headin' this way, I'm OUTTA HERE baby! So I says to him SCREW THAT BABY, I'll hitch a ride in a wheel well and BLOW THEM SHIPS TO KINGDOM COME! AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!"

Freedom:
Paradoxe: Always a challenge, never a problem. I rate their chances as infinite. Infinitely small, that is.
Entropic Avatar: *sigh* What a waste of energy.
Unseeing Eye: None are so blind as those who will not see.
Dustball: *cough* Who? What? Where?
VLSI: Infection Identified: Rikti. Treatment: Neutralize.
Juke Box Hero: (sung to "Here comes the rain") Here comes the pain....
Northern Lights: And I thought Quebecers were evil.
Waylayer: Psionics aren't worth much if you never see me coming.
Inheritance: Another obstacle to my revenge against Paradoxe. Wolfsatz, Angreifen!
Agent Orange: Flesh is flesh, and it all burns, baby. Time to get spraying.

Virtue:
Bowtruckle: Ooh me, oh my, what is this I spy? Rikti, with toys, to hurt the girls and boys! Calloo my friends callay: The game's afoot, let's play!
Australis: Oi, Superball, put a six of Frosters in the fridge. We've got some work before we can crack a tube tonight.
Oni Yuri: [Henchmen] What's up, Oni- [she interrupts] What does it look like, you idiots! Rikti!

Infinity:
Psyclone Sally: I think I feel a storm coming.
Twilight Ray: Oh, fine. What's next, a demonic invasion? *ominous rumble* That WASN'T a suggestion!
Bull Nettle: I'm a lean green mean mini Rikti beatin' machine, baby!--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"

Some players don't identify closely with their characters, and file it all under "it's just a game" so it doesn't matter what the in game goals are, as long as playing the game is fun. And it is.
CoV archetypes offer additional options and styles of play, more streamlined content, and some improvements that come from being the second game. I'm also curious how the villain and hero archetypes will work (or not) together. And it might be fun to RP, with the right PCs.
Other players do RP their chars or identify with their goals and actions more, and there we get into murky and personal territory, and I'm not going to speculate on other people's motives, other than to ask, rhetorically, "Why are Darth Vader or Magneto or Cat Woman cool?" (or not.)
My own villains on CoV are exiles, thieves, mercenaries, vigilantes and such, not psychotics or megalomaniacs. (Unless I'm playing them for laughs.) But they are villains.
I've thought about trying to actually sit down and refuse to complete missions that go against my chars' principles (such as they are) but I don't want to miss the content, and they're very much RP-lite chars, so I go ahead and finish them. Maybe the next time alt-itis strikes, I will play more consistently in character, since I'll have seen everything before.
Badb: Finally.
Faraday: Uh, Mom... I'm gonna be late for dinner. Aliens, Mom. They're all over the place. I'll be careful. Yeah. I promise. Look, I gotta go, Mom, they're bombing us.
Lead Poisoning: There goes the neighborhood. Lock and load, boys. We're going hunting.
Risk Factor: Oh, come on! Are you [bleep]ing kidding me? I [bleep]ing hate those [bleep bleep bleeeeep]! [Bleep] it, I'm gonna set some on fire.

... I really have to pick up a copy of CoH and/or V.__________________
I bet that if you cooked an elephant, you'd have a lot of leftovers.
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin

Freedom
Hisatori Miyoko What are these Rikti you speak of? I have never heard of the Rikti Dojo. Aliens? From Space? Want to destroy the planet you say? There is much honor in defending the planet!
Virtue
Shizuru Ara ara, i leave to spend some quality time with Natsuki and more arrive?
Valeria Velkadour Are they anything like the toothy camels?
Infinity
Celes Helios We shall smite these invaders for the glory of Valhalla! Aeristral, you are defianetly the weird one of this merger. (Celes is like the main character from Valkyrie Profile 2)
Triumph
Satomi of the Stars Does this mean I have to actually leave the libaray?Brown Wizard Needs Booze Badly!
*********************
In the epic rage of furious thunder
legends create their tales
when the twilight calls and the dark lord falls
our glory will prevail

Rina of the Shadow: Eew.
Alexis Morgan: So?
Mirami: *hwe?*
Eri Silverwing: I guess some aliens just don't have anything better to do with their time.
Anire: This might be fun.
Kano: This doesn't change anything.
Amanda Winter: This could change things.

---

Quote:

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From a gameplay perspective, CoV is simply put together better. The broker missions unlocking regular contacts, every one of whom has a story arc, makes way more sense than the near-random hither-and-yon-ness of CoH's mission system. It's a lot easier for a novice player to get into.

---

On the other hand, it's much easier for a novice player to get from one side of the map to the other in CoH...
So far I haven't seen too much of the story arcs in CoV, but from what I've seen and read it seems like they might tie together a little too tightly, for something where you're creating a variety of unusual characters. I'm not too interested in the whole "destined ones" idea anyway. Anire's carrying a magic item that alters visions of her future. Amanda was never arrested, so she could never be broken out of prison by Arachnos. Kano is openly working for the other side. Nanae just likes to blow up buildings that contain interesting chemicals. (Because they explode prettier!) The closest to actually fitting in is Anire, except I doubt leaving a trail of dead former contacts behind her fits in too well. (Okay, so the only one I *know* she plans to see dead is Vendetti, but I'm sure it won't end there.)
It's not so important from a gameplay standpoint, but for a game with so much stuff for giving your character a unique identity, I prefer the way CoH's arcs are set up, mostly standing on their own so you can imagine how they fit into your character's history yourself.
If one just wants to focus on gameplay, I'll never be able to get away from how annoying Mercy Island is to get around in. That, and the lag is usually much worse for me... >.>
Thus why I continue to hope for the ability to make heroes as villain archetypes. Even a fun character like Amanda often isn't enough to make me want to deal with that...
-Morgan.
"Arrrgh! I can't take it anymore! pload 'Haruhi Suzumiya'!!!"

Mace : Bar-B-Que time.
Meredith, Morgan, Marianne, Matthew, Margaret and Marcus : Alright! Bring it on!
Minuet: Ah! Get Away! Get Away!
Sylvia Black: Can I requisition fragmentation grenades?
Fae Wree Tail: Do they bring licorice?

With regards to City of Villains, and why some folks like it and some don't...
Well, there's a few reasons, I think. Let's start with game design.
CoV is the newer game, and it was designed based on things the devs learnt from CoH. Or more correctly, on things they thought they'd learnt from CoH. Things they figured "hey, this time round, we'll do right".
So you have smaller zones - and no hazard zones. Contacts that each have distinct story-arcs tied to them, rather than CoH's grab-bag where each contact is usually just a different "skin" for missions shared between a few contacts. And then there's linear contact progression. Some hidden contacts as well.
Cryptic would argue that CoV has a sleeker and more streamlined design for missions, contacts, and story arcs. That the zones are more compact, there's no needless fluff. Conversely, a lot of players believe CoV's contact progression is like a train chugging down a straight line.
Also, the fact you have fewer and smaller zones isn't a good thing for many folks - they want variety and big open spaces. Add that to the fact CoV zones are also more built-up in general, compared to CoH city landscapes - making the heroside game easier to navigate. Furthermore, all those heavily textured and complex-shaped villain zones are holy hell on lower-end computer systems. Grandville is lagtastic for many people, that's well-known, but a lot of computers just conk out over CoV as a whole.
Then there's stuff with regards to how the /combat/ side of the game is built. The enemy groups you get on the villain side are built differently - some would say they're more powerful. The individual villain characters are also built to a different scale - this is very apparent in PvP between hero and villains. The heroes are vastly more powerful and have better power choices, no question.
They'd argue that the combat side of the game is more balanced than CoH. There's a lot of stuff in CoH, after all, that isn't working as the devs intended. Given a chance to do things over, they've made new ATs that better fit their notion of balance.
And as for the combat part of the equation? It makes people think that villain characters just suck and are totally weak.
Finally, there's issues about the setting of the game.
I'm thinking from an RP point of view, City of Heroes gives you fewer constraints. City of Villains, however, restricts your concept more - the way the game is set up, the missions, story arcs, hell, the whole Arachnos-centric environment... that presumes a lot about your character. It constrains your freedom.
In CoH, you're a hero, right?
But what kind of hero you are is very ill-defined; the game does not generally place any onus on you one way or another. It assumes you are registered with the authorities and are publically known as a crimefighter...and are working your way up through the ranks of the hero world. That's about it.
The CoH story arcs are, as a whole, fairly generic, seeing as how most of them are shared between multiple contacts - you can get the same arc from different people. So even the text is rather flavourless.
It's also easier to define what a comic-book hero is. You fight bad guys. Plain and simple.
That gives you lots more freedom to define things on your own.
What about a comic book villain, however? That's a whole lot trickier. The motivations can be very very different. While CoH missions can assume that you're doing good stuff simply because you're a hero, the CoV missions generally presume you're being paid to do whatever it is you're doing. But that's just one kind of villain - the mercenary villain. However, if you don't assume that the player is being paid... it's very hard to write meaningful mission text. If you're not profiting from this, why then are you bashing people's heads in? Because you like bashing heads in? Well, the game assumes that as well.
It has to assume something.
A lot of people don't like how CoV makes you a flunky of Lord Recluse and Arachnos. That's a fair statement. But it's hard to imagine how else it could have gone. Consider that for heroes, it can usually be safely presumed that a hero will work with the authorities and the police - and other heroes. So trainers to level-up can be other heroes, you can get missions from the police, and talk to detectives as contacts. You can visit stores run by Freedom Corps... so on, so forth. There's all this support infrastructure that most people don't question.
Villains, however? What kind of infrastructure does evil have? Who's gonna provide essential services to the bad guys? Who will the level-up trainers be? Who will sell you stuff? Hence, to a large part...Arachnos.
Also consider that it's fairly traditional for all the heroes in the world to band together against big threats. The heroes of the world can, quite readily, form a concerted front. They can be considered a "faction", as it were.
For traditional comic book villains, however, there isn't really such a unified sense of identity and association. Villains do team up, yes, but those generally are small team-ups. You don't generally see really really really large groups of villains banding together.
Or at least, that's not been the case in traditional superhero comics over the past few decades. In recent times, DC and Marvel have been moving towards that model - some sort of regimented overarching structure that governs both good and evil. Heroes report to the government, and villains are linked together in some sort of, I dunno, organized syndicate. This is a relatively new development, however, in superhero lore.
But a sense of factional identity is absolutely essential for an MMO. The developers needed to solve it somehow.
But the solution they picked might not sit well with many people.
Players, CoX players in particular, like to have freedom of concept in their characters. The costume creator encourages this. Even if people don't RP as such, most CoX players do have some idea of what their character is... an evil demon, a power-armored hero... they have a concept.
The way the Heroside world is set up, it doesn't restrict concepts so much, it doesn't presume as much about your motivations. You're a hero. You fight crime. That's about it.
Even then, there's people who react badly to what little established hierarchy there is. I know a lot of folks, RPers and non-RPers alike, who somehow resent the fact that Statesman and the Freedom Phalanx are unquestionably the top dogs, while the player heroes are...what? Second-string? Second-fiddle?
Which leads to an interesting phenomenon I like to call Statesbashing - whereby a lot of folks basically go "Yeah, I can take Statesman", and write into their RP and stories situations where States and the Freedom Phalanx are shown to be inferior. Smaller.
So. The heroside game has few restrictions, but even then, people rebel against the few limits that exist.
What of the villain game?
Villainside has even more constraints. The game assumes you're a villain that was in jail, you do stuff for money. And you wanna avoid angering Arachnos because they're the king of the hill.
The last one is a fairly big sticking point. In the Hero game, it's evident that your character is a B-list second-stringer for the most part... at least, there's no way, in canon terms, you can compare to the Freedom Phalanx and Vindicators. But the game doesn't rub that inequality in your face. And some of the high-level story arcs are really epic in scale, so you can still feel good about yourself. Hey, I saved the world!
Whereas in Villain story arcs, you're reminded at every turn that Arachnos rules the Isles, and there's little you can do to shake that established order. When you get to the higher levels, what do you have to look forward to? Well, gee, you get to lick the boots of a Patron villain. How nice.
And those high-level contacts you do arcs for? You're still working for them. You're still jumping to someone else's tune.
A lot of people don't like that.
-- Acyl

Mirror Guardian Naoko: I'm just going to call this one 'out of my usual jurisdiction' and keep an eye on it.
ERI/N P. Markone: Halt all operations! There are more and larger invaders coming, repeat, more and larger invaders. Any operations now would be counter-productive.
Scorch Lass: ...well, I suppose this narrows the timetable somewhat.
Buckshot Angel Saya: CLEAR DOWNRANGE!

Quote:

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Which leads to an interesting phenomenon I like to call Statesbashing - whereby a lot of folks basically go "Yeah, I can take Statesman", and write into their RP and stories situations where States and the Freedom Phalanx are shown to be inferior. Smaller.

---

Umm.. Flame HAS taken down States/FP.... what about that?

Quote:

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Whereas in Villain story arcs, you're reminded at every turn that Arachnos rules the Isles, and there's little you can do to shake that established order. When you get to the higher levels, what do you have to look forward to? Well, gee, you get to lick the boots of a Patron villain. How nice.

---

At the end of the hero arcs, you're one of the crowd. States et al. may consider you to be a useful mammal, but you're not up to *their* lofty standard.
Whereas at the end of the villain overarc, you're also *at* the top of the hill. You've gone beyond your patron, beyond (or at least beside) Recluse. That's the best part of the CoV writing - they really do let you play (from a story side) a villain who starts out as little more than a Thug and lets you end up as a major villainous force in RI and PC.

What bugs me personally about CoV is:
1) It eats CPU/Vid card resources like its candy.
2) There's too much focus on badging.
3) They need more stuff to do, because a year later the same damn story arcs are getting old.
--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"

Here's a thought that may interest some of you.
That hero/villain co-operative zone, it may provide a way to trade inventions between Heroes and Villains.__________________
I bet that if you cooked an elephant, you'd have a lot of leftovers.
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin