Drunkard's Walk Forums

People with more CoX Fu than I will have to
judge this...

--Sam

"Bad man... hit dog... with STREET!"

Quote:Melee Attacks
* Changed Melee Range to 7'. Since this is essentially a buff, this effect will be present in PVE as well.
Taunt Powers (NOTE: These changes are
effective in PVE as well! They are essentially accross the board buffs
which should give greater crowd control ability to those who possess
these power.)
* Add 75% Range Debuff to Tanker Taunt (full aoe)
* Add 75% Range Debuff to Scrapper Confront (and equivalents.) These remain single target.

* Add 75% Range Debuff to Brute Taunt/Confront powers. The Range Debuff
should have radius outer set to 0 so it only affects the main target.
Classes Tables

* Increased MAX RESIST value for all status effect attribs. This means
status resistance effects will have more meaning. This also affects PVE.

* IncreaseRange STR MIN value to 25%. This means no player or critter
powers range can be decreased to more than 25% of its original range.
So, an 80' attack can never be debuffed below 25'. This also effects
PVE.

The only PvE relevant portions.
I do NOT like the new PvP movement supression - I do not feel that 'being the target of an attack' should cause movement supression.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Increased range on all melee attacks?

I am -so- there.

Quote:I do NOT like the new PvP movement supression - I do not feel that 'being the target of an attack' should cause movement supression.

Agreed. But it does make some sense; attacking causes movement suppression, and that makes it hard to pursue someone who's moving at high speed.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

Urgh. My rant about how Knockout Blow isn't a melee attack, it's a freaking close range ranged attack will only be enhanced by this. It has a range in
the double to triple digits of feet already! :lol
---
"Oh, silver blade, forged in the depths of the beyond. Heed my summons and purge those who stand in my way. Lay
waste."

Quote:A Heal Event now imposes a 25% Resistance to further heals on the character, regardless of source. This Resistance to heals will last for 15 seconds, and stacks with itself. This means that if you are healed 4 times, no further healing will affect you until the resistance duration ends.

Annoying.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

I still can't get over being movement suppressed because I was the _target_ of an attack. This is going to mess up my whole freaking rotation, in regards
to Warburg.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Something to make the Invulns Squee (In PvP at least).

Quote:* Epic armors and Tough (Pool Power) now provide resistance to ALL damage types while in PVP.

Also:

Quote:Status Protection attributes for all statuses except
Knockback and Knock up changed to Status Resist. For example, a Tanker
running Unyielding at level 50 has 12.975 points of protection in PVE,
while in PVP he has 129.75% Hold Resistance. That will convert an 8
second hold into a 3.48 second hold.

This here means that Amber might actually be able to _DO_ something in PvP against the non-squishes..Although I do worry for other characters in regards to this.
 As for the Movement Suppression: Feh, Emet is already slow, not going to phase me.
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

This, at least from my viewpoint, does not bode well. Warburg runs are going to be a lot worse now, when I can be movement suppressed by being attacked.
That's going to seriously affect the way I play there.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

I'll have to make a few runs with clank (safely behind a PFF) in order to see if I will ever be setting foot back in the php zones.
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy

Wow, that's a long thread. Still, a few interesting things:

(Inquizitor)

Quote:It did buff Stalkers melee. It used to be I could get away if I was Assasin struck. Now it makes the followup hit a heck of alot easier.

My small experience with PVP on Eri Silverwing makes it feel the opposite way, really. About a quarter of the time I'd say, the AS would oneshot me. The other three quarters of the time, I'm back at full health before they have the chance to follow up, and they run away. Under this system, they would not be able to escape my wrath so easily...

(Of course, this would still leave the question of "Why attack someone in Warburg who's obviously not going for launch codes?")

(Castle)

Quote:Diminishing Returns is NOT about IO's or Set Bonuses. It's about the cumulative amount of buffing a single character can be placed under, whether those buffs come from IO's, Inspirations Self Buffs, Team Buffs or Foe Debuffs.

Emphasis mine. Stacking enhancements beyond a certain point may not send you into the stratosphere... but it seems they will still provide a sort of resistance to debuffs that someone who's not super-IOed out will not have.

I'm not sure I like this movement supression from being the target of an attack. You should at least have to land a hit if you want to nail someone down. That being said, I'm not entirely convinced that escape is impossible under those conditions, given what broken fields those zones tend to be. The attacker supression definitely makes sense though. If you're going to attack someone, then you shouldn't be able to escape so easily if it turns out to have been a bad idea. (Especially in Bloody Bay and Warburg, where there's no inherent value to fighting other players at all.)

Oh, and it seems the same movement supression rules apply to PvE interaction in PvP zones...

-Morgan.

What I am most worried about (at least on Emet) is what I had quoted above.

Quote:Status Protection attributes for all statuses except
Knockback and Knock up changed to Status Resist. For example, a Tanker
running Unyielding at level 50 has 12.975 points of protection in PVE,
while in PVP he has 129.75% Hold Resistance. That will convert an 8
second hold into a 3.48 second hold.

While coupled with the new Mez-toggle interactions I am still somewhat quizzical of anyone with any sort of Hold/Stun power can -always- hold/stun you if they can hit.
All the EM/Nin Stalkers out there just got a metric fuckton of a buff, given that most of the EM powers have a hold or a Stun componet.
The -one- good thing to come of this is essentially a moot point. While this does help Amber, she is already so horrifcally helpless in PvP, I doubt I'll ever have a chance to give it a try.
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

This PvP revamp worries me, on several levels. First, as Wire has so aptly noted, it's whopping gonzo insane that the victim of an attack should have their
movement suppressed. This is nuts. This is not only potentially game-breaking (at least in the short term, until people adapt), it's also
immersion-breaking. That is a SIN.

However, Morganni may have found the solution. I'd be okay with -- not like, but okay with -- movement suppression for the target of an attack IF the
attacker has to roll a hit first. The way it sounds now, that's not the case -- the instant you come under attack, whoops, you slow down. Whereas, if
someone had to hit me before I slowed down, it'd make it less evil; I can come with any number of reasons why that makes sense, from "you stagger from
the pain of your wounds" to "he's driven throwing spikes through your feet", and more.

If they hit you, you slow down. Okay. I can live with that. Annoying, because like Wire my survival in Warburg depends on not getting hit much (Rhea can take
ONE hit; tap her twice and she's out , but I can understand it and it's reasonable and most importantly, it's not immersion-breaking. I just hope
that this is what the devs mean, because if not, I don't know that I'll ever bother with nuke gathering again (not that I have much to-date, but
still).

My second problem is the heal limits. Their stated purpose in these revamps is to make every archetype and powerset potentially useful in PvP, right? Well,
then, what the hell is someone like Rhea going to do? Right now she's plenty useful in PvP, even if she is a squishy, because she can keep you HEALED. But
I'll tell you, she puts out a helluva lot more than 4 heals in 15 seconds. With these changes it basically means that after the initial rush, she's
dead weight in any given fight. Let's not go into her damage output (ha. ha.), because that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

I suppose you could argue that an Empath has little to no business doing PvP in the first place -- and you'd likely be right -- but she doesn't go in
there alone. Empaths are force multipliers, not combatants; what this change does is essentially remove that (again, after the initial rush). If that's
gone, then dropping buffs (and clearing debuffs) is all an Emp is good for at that point, and -- oh hey, looks like they're capping the buffs as well. Hrm.

I don't really *care* all that much -- I don't play for PvP -- but still, it annoys me to see something done with so little apparent thought given
towards immersion, and with such a lackadaisical attitude towards non-front-line fighters. Support classes just aren't necessary for PvP, is what they seem
to be saying.

--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs

Well, this is interesting.

(Castle)

Quote:I just double checked. You have to actually be hit by a power for Suppression to take effect.

Well, that puts a bit of a different slant on things.

Edit: I like one of the responses that came a bit later.

(Hallowed)

Quote:JEEBUS CASTLE!!!

You couldn't have checked & posted this itsy bitsy, critical little nugget of info earlier?!? (confused)

Do you have any idea how much angst you could have preve...

(shocked)

Oh you cruel, cruel man. (tongue)

-Morgan. Also, lolpvp. ^_-

just read that this morning, it is much happy.

*gobbles purples*
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

More possible happy. If it comes through, I will personally spit on and ravage the graves of all three PvP zones.

Quote:
Shivans and Nukes will, eventually, be available to
purchase with Merits, I believe. I'm not 100% certain if that plan is
still the case, though. (Bottom of post)

---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

I will has my nukes.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Purchaseable nukes? Oh yessss.

At that point, Rhea will wave cheerfully as people traipse off into Warburg. "Bye now! Have fun storming the griefers!" Currently, she wants nukes,
she has to convince someone to escort her around. She can survive on her own, but she can't take down the mobs around the scientists without assistance.
Which makes sense, but is annoying.

(Ever try PUGging for launch codes? >_< If she didn't have Mag and Emet (sometimes Terr), she'd still be unaware of what a nuke did.)

ALso: WHEE! Glad the movement suppression is based on hit, not target. *cheers*

--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs

ok supression based on being hit is something I'm cool with. It will change things, but I'm no longer certain that the change will be for the worse.
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy

I've had my nose so far up the Dev Diary today, I can tell you what Castle had for lunch (Enchiladas). It looks like the philosophy was to even the playing
field between Melee and Range, as well as to allow any AT to be, you know, competitive in PvP.

The supression stuff is a facet of Melee/Range balance - it's the only way a Melee person is going to have to catch a ranged flier, such as Pooky.
(Cyberman is an exception to this rule).
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Well yeah. Cyberman 8 has his OWN methods of stopping/slowing down someone! (It's called STUN, folks)

The other thing he has going for him - from the dialog of a Samurai Jack episode:

AKU: "You can FLY?!?!"

JACK: "NO! JUMP GOOD!"

^_^

Sofaspud Wrote:At that point, Rhea will wave cheerfully as people traipse off into Warburg. "Bye now! Have fun storming the griefers!" Currently, she wants nukes, she has to convince someone to escort her around. She can survive on her own, but she can't take down the mobs around the scientists without assistance. Which makes sense, but is annoying.

I remember once when I was doing test server build experimenting for Eri, I tried to get a launch code just to see if I could do it. Well, I could, but it took forever, since I couldn't really take more than a few of the enemies at a time. -recharge is quite painful for a regen scrapper's defense... So I had to use my origin power to try and pull off a few, then if I got too many run away. '.'

The main problem I have with pvp as it stands is that, based on both reports and my own experience, the amount of time a fight takes is way off. It tends to be either a stalemate, or over in a few clicks. And the latter is just totally wrong. It should not be possible to take out a player as easily as someone like Eri can defeat a *minion*. (Which is basically why I hate stalkers, whether they have the slightest chance of beating me or not.)

Edit: This post from Arcanaville about rewards vs. costs of PvP is quite interesting.

-Morgan.

... Is this heal debuff only on PvP zones?

The only changes to PvE are the ones from Wiredgeek's first post.

Well, in PvE zones anyway. It sounds like some of the changes will affect player vs. mob in PvP zones, but it's unclear as to which at the moment. (Other
than the healing thing, which I can't imagine not working the same for any healing in those zones. But hopefully that'll be going away, as there seem
to be a lot of issues with the concept.)

-Morgan.

The 'diminishing returns' concept is an underlying sorta thing behind a lot of these PvP changes. Somehow that made me shiver when I heard it, but I couldn't figure out why until just now. It just clicked. Shades of ED! =D
But in all seriousness - no, the heal resistance thing is just for PvP. Again, it's very clear that the only PvP changes filtering to the PvE game are some of the buffs - increased melee range and the taunt thing. Certainly no complain there.
With regards to the heal resistance...well, more specifically, Castle said that there may be problems with the healback from stuff like Spectral Wounds being enough to trigger the resistance, and if so, this alone may force a rethink of the mechanic.
But you can, I'm sure, see all the qualifiers there. IF that particular thing is broken, it MAY force a rethink of the entire concept...
As a poster on the main forums pointed out...excessive healing is pretty dang strong in PvP right now. Let's face it. It is. So I can see why the'd wanna try and address that.
On the other hand, as our Emp players well know, this change also sounds like a kick in the fuggin' teeth for some of us. I know my own Regen scrapper just about runs into this...
If you're not trackin' the dev digest, I'd also like to hilight an interesting acknowledgement made by the devs - that EVERYONE seems to dislike the new travel power suppression mechanics. They know we hate it.
But the indication is that, yes, running away will be harder now - be it kiting or escaping. That is indeed the intent. So, enh, that's just, y'know, how it's gonna be. Which is great if you're playing a melee character tryin' to attack someone. Not so good if, like many of us here, on a great deal of our characters, we're not running away to be annoying, we're running away to stay alive. =P But them's the breaks.
-- Acyl

The similarity to ED has been mentioned before. Except for the limited amount of numbers we've seen so far, it looks like this is probably going to be milder overall... Of course, Castle has stated that the numbers are still in flux. And this involves a *lot* of numbers.

It's also mentioned that this could be used for griefing, spamming minor heals on someone from your faction, so they can't heal themselves when an accomplice from the other faction attacks them. It's also been mentioned that this could be quite painful for users of Siphon Life...

Quote:Which is great if you're playing a melee character tryin' to attack someone.

What's kind of funny is that people still can't agree on whether or not this change will actually do that.

In any case, I have no respect for people who have already quit over this. Seeing as someone suggested an entirely different way of calculating the supression time from attacks, and Castle actually said they'd consider doing something like that, there's obviously a lot of room for changes to be made yet...

-Morgan. I say to them "Let the door hit your crotch on the way out!"?