Big Bad Rommy does -not- appreciate your Rise to the Challenge. Big Bad Rommy will stomp you flat, ignoring all others, if you use it in his presence.
On the plus side, Scraps can juggle-tank Rommy with another scrapper as long as she leaves it turned off. If it's on, Rommy squishes the catgirl.
I suspect it's the -ToHit component that angers him so. Scraps pulled aggro off Gen just by walking nearby with it running, and Gen out-damages her quite
a bit.
It also pisses off the spawned Lil Fuzzies, and presumably the Big Fuzzies, but when it was running she didn't get a chance to test that; all of the little
ones dogpiled the catgirl before she could get near enough to see if she could pull aggro from the big ones.
But after I got smart and turned it off, yeah, survivability's not a problem. Strength of Will, unslotted, allows a lowly catgirl to weather the
Rommy-storm. Soon as she turned Rise to the Challenge back on, though, ow. SquishKitty.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
Rise to the Challenge has a short-duration Magnitude 3 taunt effect on everything in its radius. Against All Odds (from the Shield powerset) has a similar Mag 3 taunt, as does the scrapper version of Invincibility (Invulnerability powerset). You might have noticed that all three powers are actually slottable for taunt duration.
The taunt effect does not last for long, but it does of course re-apply every time your aura pulses. Which is pretty rapidly.
Now, Tankers on the other hand mostly apply a Mag 4 taunt effect with their stuff. That means a Will, Shield, or Inv Scrapper probably ain't going to pull that much aggro if there's a Tank on the team.
However, in the absence of any other taunter, if you're standing there with your pulsing Mag 3 aura, then they're probably gonna all come at you.
Tankers and Brutes apply a Mag 4 taunt to their target with every attack. Scrappers don't, and few Scrappers explicitly take taunt powers. If I remember correctly, Gen's Claws/Regen or somesuch, so she wouldn't have any actual Taunt going on.
So in the case of a Scrapper who isn't Will/Shield/Inv, the only aggro-drawing mechanic they have is raw damage ratio.
Raw damage ratio simply cannot compare with a proper honest-to-god Mag X Taunt effect. If it could, all blasters would be pancakes.
More pancakey than they are now, anyway.
-- Acyl
Quote: Acyl wrote:
Now, Tankers on the other hand mostly apply a Mag 4 taunt effect with their stuff. That means a Will, Shield, or Inv Scrapper probably
ain't going to pull that much aggro if there's a Tank on the team.
Mag's constant cursing when he has to team with Sylia dares to disagree with this analysis. :lol:
---
"Oh, silver blade, forged in the depths of the beyond. Heed my summons and purge those who stand in my way. Lay
waste."
That's good stuff to know, Acyl, thanks!
Yeah, Mag was the only tank on the team, and he was keeping the fuzzies busy while we dogpiled Rommy. It actually went really well the first time -- we had
him down to about 1/3rd, then I noticed that I wasn't regenerating very fast and wondered why, and noticed that I'd forgotten to toggle RttC back on.
Oh, ok, thinks I, well THAT's easy to fix. Click.
Splat.
Get rezzed, start re-toggling, I'm gonna kick Rommy's BUTT for -- splat.
Self-rez, start re-toggling again, DAMN that burst damage hurts but it's okay, Gen and I can juggle -- splat.
Hmm.
It took another few splats for me to realize the connection. By the time I did someone had uncorked an HVAS who -- thank the gods -- targeted the healing
fuzzy and kept it occupied. And I left the toggle off after that and we _cleaned house_.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
Quote: OpMegs wrote:
Mag's constant cursing when he has to team with Sylia dares to disagree with this analysis. :lol:
Mag Flashlight is also a Tank Who Herds Like A Cattle Rancher, thereby running into Our Friends The Max Cap Family.
ie, there's a maximum number of targets you can affect with a single AoE power, and, hell, a maximum number of enemies you can have aggro'd on you at
once, and so on.
Given this, on a large team, and a situation where a Tanker may be trying to herd more than one spawn...then yeah, you'd have strays which can be adopted
by a Passing Kind Hearted Scrapper.
But in something like the Rommy fight - the case at hand - there's not a huge chance that a Will/Shield/Inv scrapper will misdirect Rommy or a Fuzzy off a
competent tank who's actually reapplying their taunt, because their magnitude just outweighs yours.
-- Acyl
It occurs to me also that for an AV fight situation, the toggle aura taunt that Will and Inv scrappers provide...welllll, unless they're buffed up something serious by other team members, they ain't gonna be survivin' that aggro.
However, a Shield scrapper would have a toggle taunt too, and a lone Shielder could potentially survive an AV's attentions if they're def softcapped...
-- Acyl
Acyl, you gotta come play in 'real game' with us more often.
It's truly disgusting - unless I've both my 'taunt' auras (Icicles and Chilling Embrace) _and_ I'm taunting like a mad beast, I cannot keep
aggro off Sylia - an inv scrapper.
but yes, I spend more time at the aggro cap than I do away from it.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies
I can also agree with Wire there. Emet is a Tank Who Herds Like a Mud Farmer (i.e. just sit there, Plod around at golem speed, and wait for stuff to come into Mud Pots) and I'm rarely at the Aggro cap. The Rommy fight with the Spam Fuzzie, and the STF with Chuckles and the Laughing Boys are usually when I come close/over. Anyway. Unless I keep taunt up as much as possible, Emet is Sylia's pet rock in terms of Tanking.
I'm not quite sure where on the boards I remember reading it, but from what I remember, Taunt does not work where the highest mag taunter gets the aggro. It works like a aggro multiplier, so a scrapper with RttC/Invice/AOO is likely to out damage the Tanker, and with the added taunt from aforementioned arua they generate more aggro than the Tank. Think of it this way, this is almost certainly not how it works exactly, but it illustrates the purpose.
Quote:(No Tanker-Taunt)
*Pookie da Blaster does 9 damage and no taunt, to generates 9 aggro;
*Emet the Tank does 3 damage and 4 taunt to generate 12 aggro;
*Sylia the Scraper does 5 damage and 3 taunt, to generate 15 aggro.
(With Tanker-Taunt)
*Pookie da Blaster does 9 damage and no taunt, to generates 9 aggro;
*Emet the Tank does 3 damage and 4+4 taunt to generate 24 aggro;
*Sylia the Scraper does 5 damage and 3 taunt, to generate 15 aggro.
Given that the formula is much much more complicated, this is what I remember on the fourms about taunt mechanics. Someone with more guts for the boards and better Search-Fu can try and find the post, I think it might've been around i11 release time, as I remember a tank saying a WP Scrapper could pull aggro off him.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI