Drunkard's Walk Forums

Some of you might have heard my occasional grumbling in channel about lag and the associated issues with trials. Well in order to combat this, I tried a 'fix' that someone on a trial I was on suggested, namely turning the graphics to minimum.
It seemed to work. However I was teaming with Logan (@Atlantea) today and they said the issue wasn't the graphics but with the League system itself. Cue one annoyed Shader.
You see to turn the graphics down, which (which absolutely butchers the visual quality) it rather tricky. When I go to the Graphics Tab under options the game comes to a virtual stand still. I've never actually thought to monitor the framerate, but I've monitored the netgraph stat and it wasn't pretty. Several times I've tried to change something, and I've lost my connection. 
In the end to adjust things, I've either resorted to the now out of date TweakCoH, or done registry edits via regedit. (Yes I'm showing my programing roots there)
This time however since it was such a big change I went into Safe Mode and then open and shut options. Volia! Ultra mode disabled.
However, I miss it, and need it back at least partially for the outfits.
Now my fellow Legendary tech... if you can understand the above... how do I restore CoX to its former glory without crashing.
Some assorted screengrabs are located here.  These were just a few of the screen grabs I could quickly find. For better ones I'd have to root around more.
Note the long big spike in the netgraph in this pic here. That was when I was in Graphics tab and re-enabled Advanced Graphic options and bumped the Character detail to 100% and Very High Detail.
This pic here, here and here is how the game was before I fiddled with it.
This pic here and here is running around in min mode.
Atl wanted to know what system I'm running. Well it runs Ultra mode... just.
My system:
Optiplex 360
Intel Core 2 E7400 @2.8GHz
4GB ram. (yes I know 1 gb is not used. but upgrading to 64bit involves money I don't have. Dell only shipped 32bit)

Windows 7 Pro SP1 32 Bit (yes I know!). Windows Experience Index of 5.9 held down by the HDD. (The other numbers are 6.3 and 7.2)
ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series card (it was a pain and a half to get a card that ran Ultra and fits into the case)
ASDL modem ... its slow, split via a network switch between several computers. The top speed is 50kB/s. Welcome to 'Hi-speed' net in rural Australia. The most I've ever seen CoX peak at is 20kB/s.
Anyone got any advise?
Shader

The weirdest part of the situation to me is the idea that the game hits a "wall" and threatens to crash on you if you open the graphics tab. That's bizarre. I've never heard of that behavior from the game before. Have you updated ALL of your drivers? Check that. Especially your video and audio drivers. Sometimes that has a major effect on things. 

For a bit of background on the League problem and why I said what I said about the lag, for those who don't know: I was on a couple of Rikti Mothership Raids on Sunday that DJ Posthaste of The Cape Radio was running on Sunday. I caught the tail end of the first one and it was a slideshow disaster. And not just for those directly on the raid. Just entering the zone on an independent character, the zone itself, even in the Vanguard base, was lagged all to hell in the RWZ instance running the raid. Let me say that again - if you entered the zone and didn't even go NEAR the Mothership. Just stayed in the base. You would experience almost slideshow lag. Press a power button - 10 seconds pass before anything happens. It was BAD. 

Before the second Rikti Mothership raid, it was suggested to do it "old school" and run it with the old independent teams run by a leader calling out pylons etc on the request channel. Okay - so the league breaks apart, people get onto independent teams and the raid is run in the old method. 

Zone lag disappears. Poof. Gone. Raid runs lightening smooth. Like glass. No lag, even on ultra mode in the center bowl of the Mothership with all effects going. 

Repeat: No. Lag. At. All. 

Right. All that lag people have been complaining about in BAF and Lambda? It's not the maps. It's not the graphics. It's not any specific visual effect at all. It's the League group function itself. Has to be. 

Ok - so MH, let's start with the basics - here's the official system requirements - 

Minimum PC System Requirements:

OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP/Vista/7
Processor: Intel® Pentium® III 1 GHz or AMD Athlon™ 1 GHz MHz 
RAM: 512 MB RAM or more
Video: NVIDIA® GeForce 2 Series, ATI™ Radeon® 8500 or Intel® i810G Series Video Card
Hard Drive Space: 4 GB Available HDD Space
Internet: Broadband Internet Connection
Input: Keyboard and Mouse

Recommended PC System Requirements:

OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP/Vista/7
Processor: Intel® or AMD Dual Core processor 
RAM: 2 GB RAM or more
Video: NVIDIA® GeForce FX 5600 Series (or higher), ATI™ Radeon® 9600 (or higher)
Hard Drive Space: 6 GB Available HDD Space
Internet: Broadband
Input: Keyboard and Mouse

Recommended PC "Ultra Mode" System Requirements:

OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP/Vista/7
Processor: Intel® or AMD Dual Core processor or higher
RAM: 4 GB RAM or more
Video: NVIDIA® GeForce 8 Series (or higher), ATI™ Radeon® HD 2000 Series (or higher)
Hard Drive Space: 6 GB Available HDD Space
Internet: Broadband
Input: Keyboard and Mouse

OK. Looks like you've got a dual core processor. That's good. Quad would be better, of course, but hey, bigger is always better in gaming. It's not critical.

You say you have 4 GB of RAM. And that 1GB is not being used. Okay. I assume that's because of the 32 bit version of the operating system, from the context of your note on that? That's not good. The game should run fine in normal mode. But Ultra? You're running below spec for Ultra. I know 4 GB is said to be "recommended" for Ultra mode. But it REALLY should say that 4 GB is "minimum"!  I'd say 6 GB of RAM is needed to really experience Ultra mode the way it should be with full framerate. City of Heroes STILL has a memory leak that makes it take up a lot of system resources. More than a lot of other games. So RAM is critical. 

If the amount of RAM you are running is being throttled by your OS, then you're going to have to upgrade. It's really that simple. And if your motherboard can handle it, install some more RAM. 

I really recommend upgrading to the 64 bit OS if at all possible. I can't stress that enough. 

(Make sure you have a power supply that can handle the upgrades. One lesson I've learned in upgrading computers. You can install new stuff all you want, but if your power supply can't handle it, then it won't do any good.  Most small upgrades like extra RAM and video cards won't stress this though. But if you've got a super cheapo system, it might be worth checking.)

Nothing wrong with your video card. That's a good one. My IRL friend Glenn runs that same card and gets outstanding performance out of it for Mass Effect 1 and 2 and MMOs like CoH. 

Your net connection... hoo boy. I guess I don't need to tell you how fucked you are in that regard. I am curious about one thing though. What kind of network switch are you talking about? Is your connection split on a router between several different computers in your house at all times? Or is it a literal switch where only one computer is online at a time?

Anyway - It's possible to upgrade your system so that you can run ultra mode with good framerate and all. But nothing can help the rubber-banding you're likely experiencing. You WILL experience lag with the connection you have. There's no help for that other than moving to a city and getting proper broadband. 

OR someone bothering to bring out a decent line to the sticks.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

Quick note: I haven't actually run any upgrade wizards in a while. I'll do that. Restore point first and then get Steam to do it for me.

I've noted that game has been started to use 100% of CPU resources around the time i20 hit. Before that I had some breathing room in terms of processing power. But as SP1 hit at the same time, I blamed that.

The motherboard won't support any more RAM. But considering the deal I got on the system at the time, I can't really complain.

The power supply should support everything in the system. I've upgraded it myself from the tiny 320W to a decent 750W.

The switch is a network switch/router. Its supposedly the step above a router but works the same way. We've transferred MASSIVE files over the LAN rather quick but hook up to the net and any computer is 50kB/s. This is regardless of the number of computers on.

Normally I don't have lag or rubber-banding...which is rather nice. Just this Incarnate system is frustration. Normally when I'm playing CoX I don't do silly things like try download 90MB trailers in the background.
----edit---
Steam is updating AMD graphics driver now. For some reason I couldn't create a restore point. It kept "timing out".  There's only one hassle of using Steam... All those things I want to get... Orange Box, Portal 2 (waiting for it to come down in price) TF2, Civilization, ... and much more.
Anyway, here is what Steam says is my System Specs are, before the update.
Processor Information:
    Vendor:  GenuineIntel
    Speed: 2793 Mhz
    2 logical processors
    2 physical processors
    HyperThreading:  Unsupported
    FCMOV:  Supported
    SSE2:  Supported
    SSE3:  Supported
    SSSE3:  Supported
    SSE4a:  Unsupported
    SSE41:  Supported
    SSE42:  Unsupported
   
Network Information:
    Network Speed: 
   
Operating System Version:
    Windows 7 (32 bit)
    NTFS:  Supported
    Crypto Provider Codes:  Supported 323 0x0 0x0 0x0
   
Video Card:
    Driver:  ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series
    DirectX Driver Name:  aticfx32.dll
    Driver Version:  8.821.0.0
    DirectX Driver Version:  8.17.10.1065
    Driver Date: 26 Jan 2011
    Desktop Color Depth: 32 bits per pixel
    Monitor Refresh Rate: 60 Hz
    DirectX Card: ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series
    VendorID:  0x1002
    DeviceID:  0x68be
    Number of Monitors:  1
    Number of Logical Video Cards:  1
    No SLI or Crossfire Detected
    Primary Display Resolution:  1440 x 900
    Desktop Resolution: 1440 x 900
    Primary Display Size: 20.00" x 12.52"  (23.58" diag)
                                            50.8cm x 31.8cm  (59.9cm diag)
    Primary Bus Type Not Detected
    Primary VRAM: 1024 MB
    Supported MSAA Modes:  2x 4x 8x
   
Sound card:
    Audio device: Headphones (High Definition Aud
   
Memory:
    RAM:  3069 Mb
   
Miscellaneous:
    UI Language:  English
    Microphone:  Not set
    Media Type:  DVD
    Total Hard Disk Space Available:  673604 Mb
    Largest Free Hard Disk Block:  95331 Mb
    Steam Hard Disk Usage:  19415 Mb
    OS Install Date: Jan 14 2010
    Game Controller: None detected
   
Installed software:
    µTorrent
    Acrobat.com
    Adobe AIR
    Adobe Flash Player 10 ActiveX
    Adobe Flash Player 10 Plugin
    Adobe Reader 9.4.4
    Adobe Shockwave Player 11.5
    AMD Drag and Drop Transcoding
    Apple Application Support
    Apple Mobile Device Support
    Apple Software Update
    Ashampoo Burning Studio 9.21
    Ashampoo Core Tuner 1.20
    Ashampoo Magical Defrag 3
    Ashampoo WinOptimizer 6.50
    ATI Catalyst Install Manager
    avast! Free Antivirus
    Bonjour
    Catalyst Control Center - Branding
    Catalyst Control Center Core Implementation
    Catalyst Control Center Graphics Full Existing
    Catalyst Control Center Graphics Full New
    Catalyst Control Center Graphics Light
    Catalyst Control Center Graphics Previews Common
    Catalyst Control Center Graphics Previews Vista
    Catalyst Control Center HydraVision Full
    Catalyst Control Center InstallProxy
    CCC Help English
    ccc-core-static
    ccc-utility
    ConvertHelper 2.2
    Crazy Machines
    Crazy Machines 1.5 Inventors Training Camp
    Crazy Machines 1.5 New from the Lab
    Crazy Machines 2
    D3DX10
    e-tax 2010
    ESET Online Scanner v3
    Evil Genius
    GetRight
    GIMP 2.6.8
    Hospital Tycoon
    Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator Driver
    Intel(R) TV Wizard
    iTunes
    Jade Empire: Special Edition
    Java Auto Updater
    Java(TM) 6 Update 24
    Junk Mail filter update
    Just Great Software EditPad Lite 6.6.0
    K-Lite Mega Codec Pack 3.8.0
    Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware
    Microsoft .NET Framework 4 Client Profile
    Microsoft Application Error Reporting
    Microsoft Office 2007 Service Pack 2 (SP2)
    Microsoft Office Basic 2007
    Microsoft Office Excel MUI (English) 2007
    Microsoft Office Live Add-in 1.5
    Microsoft Office Outlook MUI (English) 2007
    Microsoft Office Proof (English) 2007
    Microsoft Office Proof (French) 2007
    Microsoft Office Proof (Spanish) 2007
    Microsoft Office Proofing (English) 2007
    Microsoft Office Proofing Tools 2007 Service Pack 2 (SP2)
    Microsoft Office Shared MUI (English) 2007
    Microsoft Office Shared Setup Metadata MUI (English) 2007
    Microsoft Office Word MUI (English) 2007
    Microsoft Search Enhancement Pack
    Microsoft Silverlight
    Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Compact Edition [ENU]
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 ATL Update kb973924 - x86 9.0.30729.4148
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.30729.17
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable - x86 9.0.30729.4148
    Mids' Hero/Villain Designer
    MozBackup 1.4.10
    Mozilla Firefox (3.6.16)
    Mozilla Thunderbird (3.1.10)
    MSVCRT
    NCsoft Launcher
    NVIDIA PhysX v8.09.04
    Online Armor 5.0
    OpenAL
    Panda USB Vaccine 1.0.1.4
    Portal
    PowerDVD DX
    QuickTime
    Safecracker: The Ultimate Puzzle Adventure
    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB2288621)
    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB2288931)
    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB2289158)
    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB2344875)
    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB969559)
    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB976321)
    Security Update for Microsoft Office Excel 2007 (KB2345035)
    Security Update for Microsoft Office InfoPath 2007 (KB979441)
    Security Update for Microsoft Office system 2007 (972581)
    Security Update for Microsoft Office system 2007 (KB974234)
    Security Update for Microsoft Office Visio Viewer 2007 (KB973709)
    Security Update for Microsoft Office Word 2007 (KB2344993)
    Spybot - Search & Destroy
    Steam
    The Lord of the Rings FREE Trial
    Twin Sector
    Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB967642)
    Update for Microsoft Office 2007 Help for Common Features (KB963673)
    Update for Microsoft Office Excel 2007 Help (KB963678)
    Update for Microsoft Office Outlook 2007 (KB2412171)
    Update for Microsoft Office Outlook 2007 Help (KB963677)
    Update for Microsoft Office Script Editor Help (KB963671)
    Update for Microsoft Office Word 2007 Help (KB963665)
    Update for Outlook 2007 Junk Email Filter (KB2508979)
    Warhammer 40,000: Dawn Of War - Gold Edition
    WavePad Sound Editor
    Windows Live Communications Platform
    Windows Live Essentials
    Windows Live Family Safety
    Windows Live ID Sign-in Assistant
    Windows Live Installer
    Windows Live Mail
    Windows Live Messenger
    Windows Live MIME IFilter
    Windows Live Movie Maker
    Windows Live Photo Common
    Windows Live Photo Gallery
    Windows Live PIMT Platform
    Windows Live SOXE
    Windows Live SOXE Definitions
    Windows Live Sync
    Windows Live UX Platform
    Windows Live UX Platform Language Pack
    Windows Live Writer
    Windows Live Writer Resources
    WinRAR archiver
    WordWeb
    Yahoo! Software Update
    Yahoo!7 Messenger
    Yahoo!7 Toolbar
   
 

m. Sounds like your ISP throttles you to that bandwidth then. Only way around that is to talk to them and find out if there's a faster plan that can pay more. I'd also not ask STEAM to check for such updates, do it yourself manually. Also check what actual sound HARDWARE drivers you have and if there is an update for them.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

Funny you should mention that Logan. Look what I found hidden in the patch notes for yesterdays update:

League

* Removed the filtering of league-wide buffs from Patch 1 which was causing additional server processing.

* An optimized filter of league buffs will be addressed in a future patch.

sounds like the problem is that leauge stuff is, in fact, causing additional server load over and above what it should, resulting in lag. WHY its doing that isnt clear, of course, except that it sounds like something that wouldnt have been caught in beta because its not something that appears except under live conditions.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

Ah good. Looks like they're addressing that, then. Had a feeling they might, after Sunday.

Quick update:

Updated graphics driver. Endured Windows Update.

Switching to the Graphics tab no longer causes the game to hit the wall.

However the League lag is still evident.

Managed to get most of the Ultra stuff back. Fiddling around with the graphics setting really affected the load on the CPU, which surprised me. That's why I got such a good card - to off load graphics calculations from the CPU to a dedicated chip on the card.

I'll have to wait a bit before I go and upgrade to x64. Have to a)back everything up again, and b)save up for the upgrade token.

I've tried to convince my folks that we need a better connection but no dice. We're in the process of selling this place and they don't see the need. 4.9km from the nearest exchange is a long wire as far as ADSL. While ADSL2 is available in the area, we're 'moving once the house sells' and 'don't want to get locked into a contract'. So chances of switching net plans... zero. I'll be able to address it once the house sells, but the market here is dead.

4.9km?  On DSL?
*does math*
I'm American, I think in feet.  4.9km is about 16000 feet, which is pretty far for DSL.  Typically, most US carriers, *if* they provide you service at all that far out, provide IDSL rather than ADSL.  And you certainly won't get the highest speeds.
That said... it sounds like you *are* getting the highest speeds physics can provide via that medium.  At your range, DSL is likely going to top out at 384kb/sec, absolute max... which translates to roughly 48kB/sec.  (Note capitalization, it's important)
So, yeah.  I don't think your ISP is throttling you.  Physics is throttling you.  And if the parental units don't want to spring for more bandwidth, the only option I see is to get them into the game so they feel your pain.

--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs

Oh my... I didn't clue in on that tidbit before. Spud is right. I should know, I worked DSL tech support for several years. 20,000-21,000 ft is the absolute maximum distance that Verizon would even bother to authorize an installation for. And we'd often have problems with the connection speed starting at about - wait for it - 16,000 ft. The best speeds you can get on DSL speeds are when the copper line from the CO is only about 5000 ft or less distance to your home. from about 5000 or so to 16,000 or so, you can get the middle tier of speeds fairly reliably. Starting at around 16,000 to 18,000 ft, you start having issues maintaining those middle tier speeds. IIRC we often would have customers calling in with speed issues and when we checked the line, we'd often find that they were beyond 16,000 ft. Usually 18,000 ft. Other factors include how old the lines are and how well maintained. We had a lot more problems with speed issues in - say - the New England area of the US than in Texas or California for example, since all the old copper lines in that area are often -very- old. 

That's right, you're still using Imperial over there. There were plans to put an exchange in virtually at the end of our road when a new estate went in nearby, but that estate has been in the pipeline now for about a decade now... and the land its going on (a quarry) still has "a few more years yet" to go on its lease before it will go the application can go through.

Gotta love the country mentality.

Come to think of it, there were two developments slated for the local region that have sorta stalled in the pipeline for one reason or another. Either one would require expansion of certain facilities such as roads and powerlines and telephones. They have been coming soon for some time now.