Details on the new Trial, another that's going into testing for 22, new incarnate powers, some general tweaks and quality of life improvements... oh, and a little thing that's driven the entire player base into a white hot rage of screaming and crying (Except the people I play with regularly for some reason.)
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthre ... ost3945734
Okay, so you don't have to dig through to find the DOOM element, here it is.
Incarnate Rewards
• Behavioral Adjustment Facility will no longer award Empyrean merits to players who have earned their Lore slot.
? That character will thereafter receive 2 Astral Merits for the first daily completion, and 1 Astral in subsequent runs.
• Lambda Sector will no longer award Empyrean merits to players who have earned their Destiny slot.
? That character will thereafter receive 2 Astral Merits for the first daily completion, and 1 Astral in subsequent runs
More then anything else in a long time, this has people screaming they'll QUIT FOREVER, because the devs are EVIL and HATE FUN. This is despite the fact that the difficulty of Keyes is being dialed down, the Underground has been tweaked several times, and there's two more Trials on the way that both offer two emp merits on completion the first time each day, and then another emp merit every time after that. The main reason for the screaming is slightly reasonable, in that it's going to cost emp merits to unlock the new Incarnate power trees, and the cost on Beta is currently 15 merits. But at the same time, using all the trials in the game, that's two days work, a week if you take it easy.
But yeah. DOOM for all. Me, I just want my 'Boot to the Head' Judgement.
Yep, I myself am calling this a dick move by the dev's. I'm going to have to run Lamb/Baf daily now untill 21.5 hits live in hopes that I can save up 30 Merits for the Judgment and Destiny otherwise Unless I can somehow get past my Imput overload and shutting down because too much shit is going on problem? I won't be able to access anything because I won't be able to earn any merits.
Arcanaville has a post
here that seems to sum up a lot of the problems. (I'm reminded once again why she's one of my favorite posters on the official forums.)
Though there's another one that someone mentioned in that thread - the newer trials take longer, and some people don't have the time very often. So this change wouldn't slow down the rate at which they can gain merits, it would stop them entirely.
-Morgan.
*sigh*
Y'know what? Fuck it. I no longer even give a damn. I already let my VIP lapse - mostly as an experiment to see how exactly things get impacted. My Veteran status is such that I still get most of what I've earned except for the incarnate stuff. (The IO set bonuses still work for me without me having to pay for them, etc.)
It irks me somewhat that I don't get my incarnate stuff too... But... fuck it. I've come to realize that this incarnate stuff has added something to this game I never really wanted. A grind that amounts to WORK. Reminds me of all the unpleasant GEAR-related issues that plague the end-game of WoW. As in - you have to devote a significant part of your life to achieving anything with it.
In the past I've been pissed off about this sort of thing. But now... meh. I'm not even going to bother. I've essentially moved on. Champions Online is a lot more fun for me than City of Heroes at this point. I re-upped my sub in Star Trek Online to give that a try again and have noticed lots of improvements there that make it a fun game. I might even try the new Star Wars MMO when it comes out.
I can still get on City of Heroes for the social and RP element now if I want to. But I just really no longer give a flying fuck about their end game content anymore. It's too much work. You guys go on with it.
And yeah, that means I'm no longer going to be an active leader of the Legendary. You can demote Lora'Lai if you need to. I've done everything I can with the base. But the devs don't give a DAMN about fixing all the myriad things that are wrong with that system. And with the latest bugs, it pissed me off to the point of swearing off from base editing entirely. It makes me too mad to do anything with it. And if something is actively pissing me off whenever I even TOUCH it, then I really can't be bothered with it. I already have minor blood pressure issues in real life. No need to add to them over a game.
Cyberman 8 and Kara Skye and my other 50s are essentially semi-retired as of now. Hell - I'm semi-retired from this game now. The incarnate crap (and the base issues) is just one more reminder of why.
(Important Edit: Not to say I won't come back. This is not a rage-quit forever thing. But I've been fighting off a case of Serious Burnout with this game for about 3 months now. And this doesn't help. I think I just need some time away for a bit. I've had to do that before. But maybe because the burnout came at the WRONG time and I fought against it for too long... Yeah. A case more extreme than others I've had before.)
Hate to say it, I'm in a similar boat. I'm lapsed due to my current situation, but... I just don't find the incarnate grind fun and I'm gamed out on Cities.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''
-- James Nicoll
Wow...
This post right here by Arcanaville (and quoting another one by Snowglobe) is all the reason I would ever need to never ever FUCKING NEVER touch any more incarnate stuff again. And also to really to call into question the sanity of the Devs who designed this crap. When someone who is as much a veteran as Arcanaville - who is willing to suffer the Keyes Trial - but still acknowledges that it's insanely difficult for most groups, says
Quote:I'll run Underground if you're running them, or a few other players, but otherwise at this point I would rather attempt to solo a Master of STF. To me, that's actually a better risk/reward activity than a random Underground. I mean that literally: that's next on my list after I figure out the right set of freemium filler/helpers for Barracuda. The ten hours I spent figuring out how to solo (more or less) a Master of ITF run was more entertaining than any Underground run I've been on so far, including the successful ones.
To put it bluntly, the Underground trial is the *only* content that I wouldn't run if it didn't have badges in it. I can't even say that about the shard task forces. I can't even say that about the original Positron's task force.
Positron is insane. Or a sadist. Or both.
I'm tempted to say that he has now surpassed Jack Emmert on the scale of "fucking the game up".
For us old-timers, you have to know, that is saying a LOT.
Logan Quits City Of... News at Eleven.
I mean, really, this is I don't know how many times you've ranted doom and gloom. Y'know, I'd pay more attention if you had your facts straight, even. For starters, Posi's not the dude in charge any more, he stepped down.
If you don't wanna play, don't play. Simple as that. But c'mon, man, stop pissing in other peoples cheerios because you don't like something. Decals in bases are bugged, time to STRIP OUT EVERYTHING. Because, y'know, that's the rational... thing... to... wait, what?
It's a game. Don't play it if it raises your blood pressure so much. Simple as that.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
Sofaspud Wrote:It's a game. Don't play it if it raises your blood pressure so much. Simple as that.
Which is what I said I was doing. So yeah. And no I'm not "rage quitting forever" as I tried to make clear in the edit above. Just - I don't know. Stress in real life? I'm not sure WHAT is making me so irritable about these things other than to call it "burn out". I've handled other major changes in the game without it driving me away. I'm not sure what's different here. I mean - there's stuff I still WANT to do in this game! First Ward story arcs pop to the top of my head. But everywhere I turn, SOMETHING is making my teeth grind.
Maybe when I can stop being irritated with it I can step back in and ask for some help to bring me up to speed again.
As to Posi - whoops. My bad. I'm not sure how I managed to miss that. Who was it who designed the trials and the incarnate stuff then?
As to the bits in the base. All right. That wasn't rational. I'll go and put the stuff back. I doubt I'll touch the base editor much after that, though. Tell you what - I'll open up the base editing privileges to anyone but a raw recruit. If you've got any rank above rumor, you can now tweak the base. That should make things easier to handle, ok? If something really needs fixing and you don't know what to do. You can still notify me about it and I can hop in and help.
(EDIT: Uhm... about that. The glass got fixed - kind of. See
this post here. I am now preparing my crow for dinner.)
I had a hard time deciding whether to make this post or not.
I'm... cynical, you could say. That's as good a word as any. And I have a strong distaste for what I consider Drama(tm). Which is what I'd come to the conclusion you were all about, Logan. I could list my reasons, but that'd be counterproductive at this point I think.
So in a fit of... internet rage, I suppose... I relinquished my grip on my tongue and said what I was really thinking. With the unspoken assumption in my mind that you'd shrug it off and continue on your way as normal and I'd have another entry on my ignore list (so to speak).
I honestly did not expect you to... well, respond rationally, I guess.
I appreciate that you've replaced the base details. My biggest issue with that wasn't the decal bug -- that annoys me too, but (possibly because I'm a programmer myself) I understand that bugs can slip through very easily when you're working on something else. And I take the fact that the bases got bugged to indicate that they are, in fact, working on things for bases behind the scenes. My biggest issue was that you just went and did it, without consulting anyone, and yes, I know, that's your job as Legendary base architect and my irritation is invalid. I don't get a say in the base; that's not my hat, it's yours.
It still rankled, because to me, the bug wasn't a big enough deal to make it an issue.
So... all that said and aside, I'm sorry I misjudged you and I'll try to remind myself of this moment next time I start to feel like you're an irrational drama queen. And pass me some of that crow, while you're at it, please.
--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs
Sofaspud Wrote:My biggest issue was that you just went and did it, without consulting anyone, and yes, I know, that's your job as Legendary base architect and my irritation is invalid. I don't get a say in the base; that's not my hat, it's yours.
No, anyone in the Legendary
should have a say in the base. Maybe I haven't said it before or in your presence, but the idea of my being "Chief Base Architect" was not that I had sole say in how the base was designed. It's that if you've got an idea, issue or problem with the base, you can come to me and I can see if it can be done.
The base was
never supposed to be my private bailiwick. Just that I'm the guy who started doing things with it first and learned all the basics of how to do it.
(Though Zilem Kain is clearly my master in creative engineering. Those apartments in the base? My idea - but he was the one who did all the fiddly bits and made them WORK. Frankly I am sometimes in awe of his ability to wrangle that piece of *&#$ editor and make it sing.)
Quote:I'm... cynical, you could say. That's as good a word as any. And I have a strong distaste for what I consider Drama(tm). Which is what I'd come to the conclusion you were all about, Logan. I could list my reasons, but that'd be counterproductive at this point I think.
So in a fit of... internet rage, I suppose... I relinquished my grip on my tongue and said what I was really thinking. With the unspoken assumption in my mind that you'd shrug it off and continue on your way as normal and I'd have another entry on my ignore list (so to speak).
You're not entirely wrong, Spud. I do have a pronounced tendency to "drama" when I'm frustrated (or sometimes just excited). I try to clamp down on it when I can. But I tell IRL friends of mine literally: "Look, if I get out of hand, would you (figuratively) SMACK me? I won't take offense, I
know I can be like that."
So when I get called on for being irrational. Especially by people I consider friends, I
listen. Cause I hate being like that.
(It's like how the Mule Trainer explains how he applies his two-by-four: "First you get their
attention..." ^_^; )
Cry DOOOOOOOOOM!!!! no more. The problem has been pidgeon-holed, but it has not been quashed.
---
The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
For those of us who cannot see the message because we are no longer VIP, can you post the details?
My personal beef has been deflated with that post. Also the follow up one by Arbiter Hawk.
Here is the super duper quick breakdown.
Dev's heard us. Emps are being left alone -and- They turfed the 15 Merit Gate from the new incarnate abilities.
PS:I still intend to try the nerfed Keyes now that the pulse is weaker @_@
I can't log into the CoH forums on my phone for some reason, so I can't copy the posts. If they're not here when I get home, I'll copy them then.
I have to give credit to Posi for explaining their reasoning too. I'm not sure this was the best way to encourage people to try the newer trials (Along with continued tweaks to the difficulty), but he's right that there has to be a better option then yet another currency. Maybe an astral to Emp conversion...
Full Text:
Positron Wrote:(Original Post)
Hey everyone,
I want you all to be aware that the development team has really taken a
look at the latest change to the Incarnate System, the removal of
Empyrean Merits as a reward for completing BAF or Lambda the first time
that day, if you’ve unlocked your Lore or Destiny slots. We appreciate
the feedback you have given us in this beta test and the fact that you
all are so passionate about the Incarnate System as a whole.
I understand that many of you are upset by this and I agree that we were
probably too heavy handed in trying to encourage players to try out the
new content and storylines that we created. To that end: this change
will not be going live with Issue 21 Special Update: Media Blitz. Have no fear, your Empyreans for completing those trials will not be touched.
Now to give you some perspective on why such a change was proposed in
the first place, we simply were not seeing enough people completing the
newer developed content for the system. Players seemed to be content in
running BAFs and Lambdas to the exclusion of everything else. Our
metrics don’t tell us why this is the case, but you the players
have spoken about it. The first two trials are more fun and take a
shorter time to complete than Keyes or Underground. Even by increasing
the number of Emp Merits the longer Trials give, it still did not spur
the playerbase as a whole into running that content.
We definitely can and will make these trials easier, faster, and/or
reward better (and the changes to Keyes is a direct result of feedback
from players), however we remain concerned that the “mindset” has
already set in: run BAF, run Lambda, ignore everything else.
This left us with very few options, one of which was to add a NEW
currency that is superior to the Emp Merits, and put that on the newer
Trials. The other option was to remove the top tier currency from the
older trials. Adding a new currency was in the original design for the
Incarnate Trials, but many voices over the past several months have
complained that we have too many currencies to begin with and we tend to
agree, so we shifted gears and in the end we explored the latter
option. With every change we know we won’t have complete acceptance;
someone (or several someones) will be upset about it. This is par for
the course, but even though there were people who understood what we
were trying to do, several good points were made in the feedback thread
which warrants our decision in not pushing this change out to Live.
What can we do to ensure that players are encouraged to play through
Keyes and Underground, as well as anything else going forward?
Especially if you can get the stuff you are looking for out of running
the older, and therefore easier, content? We’ll definitely be making
some further passes on the difficulties and rewards of the later
Incarnate Trials, but this might not be enough. As we move into the
future, if we don’t see the needle move upwards on experienced
Incarnates completing Keyes, Underground, TPN, and MoM to numbers
comparable to BAF and Lambda then we will have to start looking at other
options for the trials that come after that. Will it be a new currency?
I’d love for it NOT to come to that, but you’ve made it clear that you
want to keep getting all the old currency out of the older content.
I’m pretty excited about the new Incarnate Trials coming with future
issues. With your help and feedback we hope that we can make these
exciting, epic, and fit within your playstyles while still presenting
you a challenge. As much as you players love to play them, I know the
designers love to design them. It’s one of the more enjoyable parts of
our jobs, designing these Incarnate Trials to see just what our players
are made of. What is too hard? What only appears to be too hard on the
surface? I hope that the lessons we’ve all learned from this can help us
create some awesome content.
Follow up by Arbiter Hawk:
Arbiter Hawk Wrote:(Original Post)
Hi all,
Adding to Positron’s post above, we’ve been following your concerns
regarding the gating of these new Incarnate trees and we ultimately
agree that it’s unfair to gate some characters’ concept powers while not
gating others. While we want to provide you with compelling options to
spend your Incarnate Merits on, the original design ran counter to our
desire to provide Incarnate abilities for all origins and concepts.
Because of these considerations, we’ve removed the unlock cost for
these trees in an upcoming build, and we look forward to seeing your
builds find new and clever uses for them. The Dev Team agrees that part
of the game’s strength has always been allowing characters of any
concept to be created and we want to support that strength with your
Incarnate Abilities.
That and Second Measure told me to take them out.
-Hawk
---
The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."
>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI
Hmmm. Okay, not bad. It's a step in the right direction at least.
I wonder how they're going to make Keyes more doable? I personally think the main thing would be to get rid of that "pulse" or nerf it down to almost nothing so that squishies and defense-based characters don't have to stick like glue to a dedicated healer (or more than one). I accept a certain amount of DOT to a point. And that random DOT + whatever I'm fighting might knock me out at a bad moment. But for the pulse ITSELF to be able to wham me into oblivion all on its own with me just standing there doing nothing? No. That's never been acceptable. Not even close.
Almost all my 50s have problems with the system as it stands. C8 is total defense and speed based. He can stick to a healer, but then he can't really do much. If he strays to fight and the healer moves away, he's toast. Kara Skye is very squishy. I couldn't even get out of the hospital for more than 30 seconds at a time with her. Startracker Zero - same. The only one of my 50s that I think might have a chance to run around without being spam-healed constantly is Lily the Diamond. And I never have got around to running her through anything but the base Alpha stuff and I -think- I ran her through a BAF once. (Lora'Lai and Zmierzch are Kheldians. I -think- in theory they might be able to handle it in Dwarf-mode or shifting back and forth to do their multiple self-heals. But again - haven't gotten them past base Alpha content, so I can't be sure.)
If they'll just do something with that, the rest is probably doable. There are other things I could think of to change Keyes (make it more clear what and WHERE each objective is to a new player without the leader(s) of the trial having to do as much "herding of cats"). But that pulse is the big one.
For Atl, these are the change to the Keyes Trial.
Adjustments have been made to the Keyes Island Reactor Incarnate Trial in an effort to make it faster and less difficult:
All Reactor stages will only require 6 terminals to successfully gain control of the reactor, rather than 10. All 10 terminals will still spawn, so all the league needs to do is charge up any 6 of the 10. Three cells per terminal will still be required.
Power Cells will now override Anti-Matter's control over a terminal at Reactor Hope and Reactor Infinity after the first one is applied to the terminal. While he still must be brought to a terminal to unlock it for the first Power Cell, he does not need to be present for all 3 Power Cell applications.
The restocking of cells will begin sooner, after 8 Cells have been gathered at Reactor Genesis, instead of 10, or will start after 1 terminal is completed in any stage, rather than after 2 have been completed.
Reduced the minimum damage on Antimatter Pulse from 50% Max HP to 20% Max HP.
Significantly reduced the bonus damage due to Anti-Matter's health on Antimatter Pulse. The attack will now hit for a maximum of 25%, 30% or 35%, depending on Anti-Matter's health, rather than 80%, 90%, or 100%. This translates into reductions from +30%/+40%/+50% to +5%/+10%/+15%.
Altered the base damage for each tick of Disintegration from 15%/40%/75%/99% to 20%/40%/60%/80%. The attack will no longer require completely full health to survive at the end. Any increases in damage in a tick are to the resistible and defensible components, not the irresistible components.
Reduced the Endurance Crash due to survival of Disintegration from 100% to 50% of the character's maximum endurance.
The stage timer for all reactor stages has been reduced from 30:00 to 20:00 due to the reduced requirements for each stage.
Anti-Matter will now arrive 90s after the warning is triggered, rather than 2 minutes later.
I've done Keyes twice with Evangelia, who is about the only toon I do significant Incarnate stuff with (I'm starting to build up Kawaiiko-chan, but she's not a priority). Both times the trial was a success, but frankly, both times I had no idea what I was doing and just followed the crowd...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Since I'm Too lazy to Edit...
From Second Measure (He's the Lead producer btw)
We will have concrete news about the Incarnate Solo Path at the Player Summit.
Boom.
As an incarnate who pretty much cant Trial cause old computer is S l o w . . .
Yay.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by
Echo's Children
Terrenceknight Wrote:We will have concrete news about the Incarnate Solo Path at the Player Summit.
Boom.
*does double take*
SOLO path?
(slow smile)
Ooo...kay! NOW we're talkin'! I don't mind big teams in a technical sense(my computer can handle it). But having the option of doing some solo work (or small teams) to get the incarnate stuff is very much appreciated!
Yes, this is interesting and good news to my ears, as well. I would very much like to see some other way of advancing as an Incarnate besides the endless TF grind.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
A solo path is good news. I'm one of those folks who isn't personally put off by the large raid model, since I can deal well with chaos, my computer's still able to handle it, and I have an IO'd character who operates exceedingly well in the trials (softcap VEAT with invis and ranged attacks). At the same time, since I play a lot during off-peak hours, getting a trial isn't always the easiest thing in the world. On Virtue I usually can do it, but hey.
But I'm really really happy for those folks who can't do trials for whatever reason, be it technical or personal health.
What I'm interested in is the rate of rewards for the solo path, now. I mean, reasonably we can expect that solo incarnate stuff will be much slower. But how much slower? Right now, technically you can get a lot of incarnate stuff solo, but it's REALLY REALLY REALLY slow.
-- Acyl
Todays Patch reveals quite a few reward improvements...
Incarnate Trials
Players now once again gain Empyrean merits for their first daily completion of the BAF and Lambda Sector Incarnate Trials.
The drop rate of Rare and Very Rare Incarnate Components has been increased for the final encounters of Keyes Island Reactor, TPN Campus, and Minds of Mayhem.
In an effort to strike a balance between rewards, effort, risk, and time invested in Incarnate Trials, mid-trial component rolls have been added to the more challenging trials. This reward roll has a moderate chance for Rare/Very Rare components. It has been added to the following trials:
Keyes Island Reactor, after successfully recovering control of the Central Reactor.
The Underground, after defeating the Lichen Infested War Walker.
TPN Campus, after defeating Maelstrom for the second time.
The Underground Incarnate Trial will always award a Rare or Very Rare component after successful completion of the Avatar of Hamidon encounter for players who are present for the entire event's duration.
And Base Editors will like this little feature:
Base Editor: Free Vertical Placement and Rotation
Added the ability for players to move base objects horizontally and rotate them about the vertical axis freely.
While placing an object, if the player holds SHIFT, they can move the object vertically.
Once placed vertically, if they wish to move the object again and maintain the vertical placement, they can hold the CTRL key.
If they do not use the CTRL key, the object will snap to the first encountered ground the cursor is placed over.
If the player holds ALT, they can rotate the object about the vertical axis.