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Mark Skarr Wrote:However, at the end of the day, the U.N., as it exists in the IST universe, will not survive the war. What comes out of the war, will be stronger and more capable. But, it will still be called “The United Nations.”
It doesn't need to be the same organization, though. I'm thinking back to the time before and during WWII, where the League of Nations was doing its (ineffectual) best to stop the coming war, and the "United Nations" was the name that the Allies gave themselves. After the war, the LoN was gone and the UN had taken its place.

Could something like that happen after the Chinese War in the IST timeline? Certainly. Would it (or should it)? I don't know ... but I do like the historical parallelism.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
That's not quite accurate, Rob. The LN never stopped being the League of Nations. It disbanded and gave most of its outstanding resources to the United Nations (that was "created" in 1943).

I don't see the IST U.N. "disbanding" as much as I see them "reorganizing."

The IST U.N. already has a standing military--The IST and the Powered Armor Infantry.
Infodump-
2000-
The Chinese attack South Korea and Hong Kong with fully-metahuman brigades. Further, successful attacks are made against India, Japan and Russia.
Using a refined jugo the Colombian drug cartels launch a relentless attack on the southern United States. The berserker supers are able to disrupt the embargo around Cuba to allow Guatemalan relief to reach the island. The US responds by creating official, government super teams. President Buchanan declares a state of emergency and declares Martial Law.
Hard-liners in the PLO launch nuclear attacks on Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv. Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria all invade Israel. Israel retaliates with nuclear attacks that completely obliterate Beirut and Damascus. All Palestinians within Israel are rounded up and deported to Saudi Arabia. Those that resist are executed.
Moammar al-Qadaffi begins a sustained terrorist attack against Europe. Numerous nuclear devices are detonated across Europe. Starting in Italy and France, but, eventually encompassing all European nations.
South Africa launches a full-scale invasion of Angola after weakening their military and the IST embassy with the use of nuclear terror attacks.
An undetected terrorist bomb detonates in the council chambers during a Security Council debate over the Chinese invasions. Another bomb simultaneously detonates in the General Assembly chambers. Four more bombs detonate in key locations of the building. The United Nations building collapses under the onslaught.
The Blue Demon appeared in Rome, after the Libyan nuclear attack. It was defeated by a Vatican super team.
A seriously-wounded young woman appears in IST London clutching numerous pages of research. After recovering, undergraduate college student, Jillian Michaels, admits to fleeing from US Soldiers after they tried to confiscate her temporal anomaly research. Her metahuman genes activated, allowing her to, somehow, teleport to London, bypassing all of their security.
2001-
China deploys a division of metahuman soldiers to Cuba to reinforce them. Within days of arrival, the Cuban people are imprisoned, and China declares Cuba a holding of the PRC. Battles rage across Asia. China takes Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar and Vietnam. Battles rage in the Assam region of India and Bangladesh.
The US government mandates police troops to use their own derivative of jugo in battling the ongoing terror attacks from Colombia. Several strategic bombers, loaded with environmentally unfriendly defoliants make numerous passes over Colombia. Mexican troops, backed by Colombia invade the southern United States.
Chinese terrorists detonate three nuclear devices on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. The bridge is completely eradicated. Nearly two-hundred thousand civilians are killed in the attack.
The U.N. Plaza is finally cleared of rubble in time for President Buchanan to expel the U.N. from American shores. He mandates that all US citizens serving in the IST have one month to return to the US to be assigned to military forces or they will be tried, in absentia and convicted of High Treason. All US IST members stay where they are assigned. All U.N. workers leave the United States.
Several nuclear devices detonate in Gaza and Amman. Israel claims these were terrorist devices that were handled incorrectly. Israeli Special Forces engaged in Cairo accidentally destroy the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx during a running battle. Israel takes the entire west bank and the Gaza Strip and expels all Palestinians.
South Africa finishes overrunning Angola. Fanning out, they capture numerous cities and nations, unable to resist. They lay claim to all of Africa, but only control from Latitude 8 south to Latitude 35. They round up and execute any blacks that exhibit any level of metahuman ability.
Numerous undetectable suicide bombers detonate across Europe, though only with conventional explosives. Ten or more explosions a day wrack the cities of Europe. The police and military seem powerless to stop it. The European metavillians make themselves available to the authorities to help stop the attacks.
Jillian, with help with several U.N. scientists decipher her research and discover a number of anomalies in the time-space continuum.
2002-
Chinese forces take Bangladesh, Bhutan, Mongolia and the Assam region of India. An assault by the patients of IST Alice Springs breaks the back of the Chinese attack in Japan. I-Beam, Johnny T-Rex and Starchild are killed in the attack. Starchild’s daughter is missing from the embassy when they return. By the end of the year, all Chinese troops have been cleared from Japan.
The United States begins carpet bombing northern Mexico. US supers begin pulling debris from orbit and smashing it into targets in Central and South America. The NASA employee, Shunt, tenders his resignation and teleports to IST London seeking asylum. The U.N. welcomes one of the most powerful teleporters on Earth.
Israeli supers manage to route the Egyptian army. As the Egyptian army retreats through Sinai, they are pursued by the supers and the army is wiped out. The PLO and their allies detonate dozens of nuclear devices throughout Israel in an attempt to weaken Israel. All it seems to do is make them angry and bring more metahumans to their side. Saudi Arabia denounces Israel’s aggression, but agrees to stay out of the war, so long as it does not spill into their territory.
With no organized resistance, South Africa claims all of Africa south of the equator. It consolidates its hold on the continent and continues its execution of black metahumans.
Discoveries are made that the suicide bombers are regular people who have, somehow, been altered to explode. The unknown process turns a person into an equivalent weight of industrial explosives. The process is undetectable by all but the most dedicated and invasive of metahuman scanning equipment. It is assumed that this was the same process by which the U.N. Headquarters was destroyed.
Jillian, with the help of IST Alice Springs team member Running Gag, discovers that the anomalies form a network across the globe, linking all of the hotspots together.
ETA--Changed Jillian's last name.  The original Jillian was "Dr. Anderson."  Decided, just to keep things simple, to use her married name, Michaels, even though she's not married yet.
Oh, yeah.

In 2001, The Blue Demon attack San Francisco. It is defeated by a Super Temps team.

In 2002, The Blue Demon appears in Brazzaville and travels between it and Kinshasa. It is ignored by South African supers until it kills its first white victim in the area--then it is defeated.
Mark Skarr Wrote:A seriously-wounded young woman appears in IST London clutching numerous pages of research. After recovering, Jillian Anderson admits to fleeing from US Soldiers after they tried to confiscate her temporal anomaly research.
Holy X-Files, Batman!
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Yeah, but that's not where the name came from.   I'd been using that character since before the X-Files ever came out.
2003-

Chinese forces make advances into Russia and India. The IST Embassy in Kolkata reports unusual behavior in their fusion reactor moments before the embassy and the surrounding city vanish in a multi-megaton fusion explosion. Within weeks, the embassies in Banjarmasin and Jakarta are likewise destroyed. Quick thinking at IST Hiroshima shuts down their reactor before detonation. Chinese troops attack each location within hours of the detonation.

British and Canadian troops reinforce US troops in holding back jugo infused Mexican soldiers. US supers smash a 250-meter wide asteroid into Mexico City. The resulting impact devastates the entire city and hundreds of square kilometers surrounding it. The resulting 3.5 km wide crater continues to collapse. Similar strikes in Chihuahua and Hermosillo devastate the Mexican Army’s supply lines.

The Blue Demon appears in northern Mexico. US troops allow the creature to run amok, only doing the damage necessary to redirect it to stay south of the border. US Forces sometimes shell Mexican units that seem to be on the verge of defeating the monster. The Blue Demon kills several thousand Mexicans before it is finally driven off.

PLO terrorists deploy the Chinese fusion destabilization devices on Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. The Jerusalem reactor is shut down before it goes critical, but the Tel Aviv reactor devastates the surrounding country. Israel shuts down all of their fusion reactors. The U.N., fearing a global catastrophe from their reactors, orders all of them shut down for safety sake.

South Africa runs into their first major hurdle in their conquest of Africa. Equatorial Guinea meets them head on with a brigade of Chinese-created, black metahuman soldiers. Gabon and Congo are devastated as the two forces seem equally matched. Tactical battlefield use of nukes is the only thing that keeps South Africa moving forward.

An anti-metahuman, neo-Nazi movement in central Europe blames metahumans for the attacks and vows to kill all metahumans. Due to the increasing terror attacks, they manage to rally popular, public support. Germany cracks down, hard, on the movement, imprisoning large numbers of their followers.

Jillian discovers that each of the temporal anomalies has the same “frequency.” Each of the anomalies appears to be a fissure in the fabric of space-time. Somehow, they are acting as reverse pressure-valves, causing “probabilistic-pressure” from outside the universe to enter.
By my timeline, I'm running the war out to about 2007, when it will be reverted back to 2000 by Jillian and a handful of other supers. Only people on Earth (and in the immediate, orbial vicinity) will remember the war. The rest of the universe will continue along their merry ways. Once reverted, a more, normal time-line can exist. Though, there will be some interesting fall out with knowledge of future events and revalations.
Quote:If we had an ultra-powerful super with ecologically-based superpowers . . . they'd be able to stop the war pretty quickly.
Yeah, because someone willing to die to fix catastrophic environmental damage which potentially threatens the lives of tens of millions of innocent people is obviously the exact sort of person you'd expect to use those same abilities to stop the war by slaughtering untold millions of soldiers.
Quote:But, more importantly, who is this super? Why haven’t we heard of them before? Sure, we could just “make one up” but that would be intellectually dishonest. This isn’t happening in a vacuum. Why didn’t they show up to miraculously repair the Exxon Valdez oil spill eleven years ago? Why haven’t they repaired the damage to Iraq and Iran? Jerusalem? There are plenty of ecological catastrophes in the IST world that they would be needed for. Spontaneously creating one to keep the war from being too devastating is GM Fiat and reduces any act that an adventuring party does to nil—we don’t have to keep that reactor from melting down, Dr. Fixaflat will be here soon to clean up the radiation and lead everyone in a rousing chorus of Kumbaya.
Why didn't we hear from the meta with the godlike environmental powers before? Because the Chinese war will be ending around 2005, while the old GURPS IST timeline only went to 1990. Why didn't they intervene in any previous ecological disaster? Maybe they did; they just did it after 1990. By your logic, no NPC who didn't appear in the original material can have any positive effect on the world whatsoever without being some sort of 'GM Fiat' character. PCs are apparently the only ones who can accomplish anything, anywhere.
Fact: A major war will have a significant effect on the region's environment. Fact: After the war is over, someone will have to deal with that problem. Fact: Your average gaming group isn't going to want to spend six months roleplaying a team of ecologists rehabilitating a damaged habitat. Thus, I posited some theoretical NPC who fixed the worst of the environmental destruction at the cost of their life. Did all the people who died in the war still die? Yes. Were any of the buildings destroyed during the war magically fixed? No. Are there fields full of crops just waiting to feed hungry and homeless refugees? Nope. The PCs did their Big Damn Hero thing throughout the entire war, and the unknown NPC had a single heroic moment before leaving the stage forever, assuring that they won't be overshadowing the PCs in the future.
Quote:[sarcasm]Sure, China would have a problem with breeding kids.[/sarcasm] 15 is adult enough. Their plan was to be done in 30 years, not have the first phase of the plan done. And there’s no doubt that they’re less concerned about human rights now, than they were before Tiananmen Square. And keep in mind it was 1989 when we learned about the project . . . how long had they been working on it before then? Discovering the genes in 1985 may have simply sped up their process. It may have allowed them to focus on select lines and prune others.
Yeah, 15 is adult enough. Which is why I was using that age in my personal mental calculations. Assuming that the 30 year plan was a plan that had been active for 30 years at the time it was revealed, that means that the plan has been active for up to 41 years as of the start of the war (as I specifically noted in my original post). 1959: The original subjects are selected and start having kids. 1960: The first kids are born. Some of them will likely develop powers. 1975: The kids in the program are now 15 and start having kids of their own. 1976: The first members of the second generation are born. Many of them are likely to have powers. 1991: The first members of the second generation are now old enough to have kids. 1992: The first members of the third generation are born. Since genetic tests are now available, all of them will likely have the potential to someday develop powers. 2000: The war starts, but the oldest members of the third generation are only eight years old. 2005: The war ends, and the third generation children are still no older than 13. Few if any of them will have seen frontline combat.
Note that the discovery of metagenes is almost entirely irrelevant to the start of the war. Since those genes were not positively identified until 1986, any kids produced through genetic identification of superhuman potential within their parents would have been no more than 13 at the start of the war. They may have begun entering military service towards the latter half of the war (perhaps giving China a much needed boost in troop strength). I also find your suggestion that the Chinese are using genetic tests for metagenes to identify the potential for specific powers to be unlikely. There is no evidence whatsoever that those tests have that sort of specificity.
I also have to wonder precisely how large the purported breeding program actually was. I can't see China successfully hiding training academies for tens of thousands of metahuman children without spy satellites and HumInt resources finding out about them.
Quote:China’s basic soldier will have to be able to stand up against U.N. Powered Armor Infantry. That should be our base-line for them. Powered Armor Infantry would be the main target that China has been planning to battle since the start.
This is a false presumption. As the saying goes, 'quantity has a quality all its own.' A single Chinese soldier does not have to stand up to a single UN trooper if the Chinese can field 20 soldiers for every one the UN can outfit. China just has to give their people with bigger guns so that they actually have a chance to kill guys in power armor. Since big guns are cheaper than power armor, the Chinese come out way ahead.
This is another reason I'm against the widescale success of a Chinese breeding program. It is unnecessary. China was already the most populous nation in the world in the year 2000, with 1.2 billion people. Twenty percent of the global population lived in China at that point in history. Thus, twenty percent of all metahumans in the world should also be Chinese citizens. Charges of metahuman breeding may be a great propaganda tool for China's enemies, but I doubt it would play too big a role in the war itself.
Quote:And the US may have destroyed its arsenal in 1987. Buchanan went off U.N. power in ‘98 and could have begun building a new, anti-U.N. arsenal any time before that. The technology and the infrastructure still exist, and, the US has proven that it can do some pretty amazing things with its manufacturing capability in the past.
Where'd you get your info for 1998? The GURPS IST Timeline ends in 1990. Also, did America still have active fission plants left after converting to fusion power? You need fission plants to make a large amount of bomb quality nuclear material, and if America suddenly started to refurbish large numbers of mothballed fission plants, China going on the warpath two years later seems kind of obvious.
Quote:Idea: The Chinese have a way of destabilizing the U.N. Catalyzed-Fusion Reactors. Either making them unstable and shutting down, or to over-load and have them melt-down. All member-nations would have to come off of fusion power a.s.a.p. or risk a major catastrophe in any of their cities. They could also insist that all Embassy’s shut their reactors down (doubt they’d get much of an argument from the U.N.) to prevent the same.
And you accuse me of GM Fiat. 'Let us give the bad guys magical fairy powers.' The very first mission the PCs undertake will obviously be to learn how the Chinese are doing this, and to use this knowledge to either block the technique or turn it against the Chinese. Failure equals instant total loss and the Chinese win the war.
Quote:2000-
The Chinese attack South Korea and Hong Kong with fully-metahuman brigades. Further, successful attacks are made against India, Japan and Russia.
Multiple metahuman brigades? Isn't this a case of putting all of your eggs in one basket? A brigade is up to 1,000 people. While China certainly has enough metas to use this tactic, the wide range of metahuman powers and the strategic value of individual metas makes this a poor tactical choice. Metas would work much better as elite squad level groups (like PCs). One bunker buster bomb on your battalion and 90 percent of your metas are jelly. Small, agile groups are simply too hard to reliably target with artillery/missiles/etc.
Also, India, Japan and Russia? WTF? China could easily claim that their attack against Hong Kong is simply a matter of them reclaiming territory which was historically part of their country and was illegally kept from them. A North Korean push into South Korea with the aid of Chinese 'military observers' would be a matter of assisting an allied nation in its perfectly understandable reunification efforts. Blitzkrieging their way into India, Japan and Russia is a sure way to put a stop to any sort of diplomatic doublespeak and go right to TOTAL WAR with the rest of the planet. What the hell would push them to do something that fantastically dumb? This plan only makes sense if the Chinese leadership are being mind controlled or have been replaced, which would be utterly  cliché.
Quote:Using a refined jugo the Colombian drug cartels launch a relentless attack on the southern United States.
Yeah, because if I was a South American drug lord, I'd just love the idea of attacking my customers with an army of berserk metahuman thugs, thereby assuring both that I'll have many fewer customers and that I'll have many fewer thugs guarding my interests at home.
If they're going to attack anyone, how about the reinforced IST branch in Bogota or the UN offices in New York? This plan only makes sense if the drug lords are being mind controlled or have been replaced (still a cliché).
Quote:All Palestinians within Israel are rounded up and deported to Saudi Arabia.
No. First, there are close to 4 million people living in the Palestinian territories. Unless Israel can magically teleport all of them at once, I don't see them getting deported. If Israel can teleport them all at once, we've just solved the Chinese war: Go to Beijing and teleport the entire population into the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Repeat until the country surrenders.
Second, Israel and Saudi Arabia don't seem to share a border, so they'd better be using mass teleportation for the deportations.
Third, the reason there are Palestinians in the first place is because every other Middle Eastern country refused to allow them entry back when Israel originally formed and tried to kick them out after WWII. I doubt they've changed their minds since then, as the issue gives them a constant source of anti-Israeli propaganda.
Fourth, instant shrieking denunciations from the rest of the word. There are real world precedents for this; terrorists can launch hundreds of rocket attacks against Israel for months and nobody says anything, but the moment Israel launches a handful of retaliatory strikes against specific targets, there is international outrage. This pattern has been going on for decades.
Quote:...nuclear attacks...nuclear devices...nuclear terror attacks...terrorist bomb...
Apparently we now know what the Reality Quake of 2000 did; it retconed every single precog in the word into nonexistence. While I can possibly accept one side in this debacle having some sort of anti-precog defense to hide their actions, every bad guy in the world now seems to possess an immunity to precogs.
Quote:2001-
China deploys a division of metahuman soldiers to Cuba to reinforce them. Within days of arrival, the Cuban people are imprisoned, and China declares Cuba a holding of the PRC. Battles rage across Asia. China takes Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar and Vietnam.
There are 11 million people in Cuba. In what prison were they stuck by the Chinese?
Also: Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar and Vietnam? What exactly is everyone else doing while China is busy annexing the planet?
Quote:The US government mandates police troops to use their own derivative of jugo in battling the ongoing terror attacks from Colombia.
The government is ordering highly trained professionals to snort a type of cocaine that usually results in brain damage, horrific internal injury or death within a matter of hours? So American government officials have now been added to the list of brainwashed/replaced world leaders?
Quote:Several strategic bombers, loaded with environmentally unfriendly defoliants make numerous passes over Colombia.
A similar strategy was attempted in the real world and didn't work. It won't work here either. Especially not with jugo augmented flying, energy shooting metas intercepting the planes.
Quote:Chinese terrorists detonate three nuclear devices on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco.
Is the Golden Gate Bridge made of some virtually indestructible super material in the IST world? Otherwise, this plot is absurd. Nuclear bombs are quite hard to make. Dropping three on a single unarmored target is dumb, especially as you'd have to synchronize them to blow within about a picosecond of each other to keep the first blast from destroying the other two bombs before they can detonate.
Quote:He mandates that all US citizens serving in the IST have one month to return to the US to be assigned to military forces or they will be tried, in absentia and convicted of High Treason.
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't count as high treason. You'd probably need to go with a different charge.
Quote:They round up and execute any blacks that exhibit any level of metahuman ability.
Unlikely to be particularly successful, although charges of such an attempt could go far as propaganda.
Quote:The United States begins carpet bombing northern Mexico.
I hope you don't mean this literally. First, carpet bombing was only used in the past because more effective technologies were still in their infancy. Second, carpet bombing a country is really back for the PR aspects of a war. Third, northern Mexico is freaking huge! If America is literally carpet bombing the entire area, I don't think there are enough munitions in the entire country to do so without resorting to nuclear strikes, and America really doesn't want massive amounts of fallout on its own border.
Quote: US supers begin pulling debris from orbit and smashing it into targets in Central and South America.
The debris, being small and light so it could be placed in orbit in the first place, burns up on entry and accomplishes nothing. China learns of what the idiotic Americans attempted and decides to play 'rods-from-god' with America on the receiving end.
Quote: US supers smash a 250-meter wide asteroid into Mexico City. The resulting impact devastates the entire city and hundreds of square kilometers surrounding it. The resulting 3.5 km wide crater continues to collapse. Similar strikes in Chihuahua and Hermosillo devastate the Mexican Army’s supply lines.
I'm pretty sure that a single strike of that magnitude is an extinction level event that causes a nuclear winter that kills pretty much everything. Why is America using attacks that are explicitly capable of killing EVERYONE as part of their war on drugs?
Quote:South Africa runs into their first major hurdle in their conquest of Africa. Equatorial Guinea meets them head on with a brigade of Chinese-created, black metahuman soldiers.
So now China is creating metahumans rather than breeding them? Why exactly are they doing so for soldiers from Equatorial Guinea instead of injecting all 1.2 billion of their citizens with this miracle serum. Not that China's leaders would be all that thrilled to try ruling over 1.2 billion super powered citizens. I doubt it would work very well.
Overall, you seem to have a poor grasp of scale and simply have various factions doing things without showing how other factions react to those actions.
Also, regarding DM Fiat, I notice that your NPC seems to have all the answers and that the entire plot for this war hinges upon on her work. That is very anti PC of you. If a grand plan is going to save the world, it should be as a result of PC discoveries and PC actions rather than NPC railroading. You're just hijacking the entire scenario with your pet character.
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV
Step Number 1.  GO READ THIS.Bob linked to it in the first post, but you, apparently, didn’t read it.  That’s where the majority of my post-1990 information comes from.  And it's, pretty much, required reading.

Step Number 2.  Go read GURPS Y2K.  Specifically chapter 9.  The chapter entitled IST-2000.  That’s where the rest of it comes from.  Ditto for the required reading.

Here’s a spoiler from it:
GURPS Y2K, pg 106 Wrote:By June of 1999, any psi with a precognitive range of at least a year had run into what had been termed “the Wall”: Sometime during the year 2000—exactly when varied from psi to psi and from try to try—all ability to see the future simply stopped dead.

Once you’ve read all of that, a lot of your points will get their own answers. 

I’m only going to bring up three points:
Shepherd Wrote:I'm pretty sure that a single strike of that magnitude is an extinction level event that causes a nuclear winter that kills pretty much everything. Why is America using attacks that are explicitly capable of killing EVERYONE as part of their war on drugs?
Sure, if it’s hitting at a significant percentage of the speed of light.  But, it isn’t.  It’s hitting at about 20mps.  A 250m asteroid hitting the Earth is not an extinction-level event.  Even a brief internet search can provide you with dozens of calculators to determine this sort of thing.  I chose this size specifically because it’s going to be catastrophic for several hundred kilometers, but won’t even make the planet flinch.  It’s the equivalent of a big nuke hit.

Shepherd Wrote:Also, regarding DM Fiat, I notice that your NPC seems to have all the answers and that the entire plot for this war hinges upon on her work. That is very anti PC of you. If a grand plan is going to save the world, it should be as a result of PC discoveries and PC actions rather than NPC railroading. You're just hijacking the entire scenario with your pet character.
Again, no.

By your logic, every, mentioned NPC in the IST book is stealing something from the PCs.  This is history, not the present.  If someone wants to go back and play through this time, then, by all means, go right on ahead.  But, we’re writing history—someone has to make these discoveries.  In order to write the story we have to make decisions.  We have to have people do certain things.  We have to reveal secrets and decide upon outcomes.
Also, every character I mention was a PC in one of our IST games from over the years.  I can't use other people's supers because I don't know them.  Working with what I've got.  Many of them would be helping, and some of them, like Jillian, have the abilities and would be in position to figure things out.

Shepherd Wrote:Overall, you seem to have a poor grasp of scale and simply have various factions doing things without showing how other factions react to those actions.
Even though this is a personal attack, I'll address it as well. 
My sense of scale is fine.  I just have a good grasp of what’s happening.  You, however, do not.  However, it's pretty obvious.  Someone is pulling the strings.  Someone is making this happen.  It’s freaking supers, there’s always a mastermind. 

But, put your money where your mouth is.  Put out four years of information.  Let’s see your first four years.
One thing I noticed about the 1990's timeline: there's nothing about South Africa in it, and very little about the Southern Hemisphere at all. The IST sourcebook, however, was very clearly setting up South Africa as a powderkeg about to explode in 1990. In fact, much of what I see Mark doing with South Africa in his tentative timeline looks like stuff that should have been happening in the 90's, unless something else happened to prevent it.
Oh, and my first thought on seeing the name Jillian Michaels was, "Wait, a personal trainer is doing research on temporal anomalies?"
I think you're overdoing it on the catastrophe....

What makes a good World War catastrophic is not the first five minutes, it's the five years that follow. Nuclear weapons have been used before.... that doesn't mean people are going to be in a hurry to use them again. Especially not aimless "I hate you, have a mushroom cloud" spam. Might make a decent leadup to a post apocalyptic scenario.

Twilight 2000 with Supers? Maybe that might work. But I don't think that's what the project that's being aimed for here.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
whoa. This is what I get for being too busy/preoccupied to check the forums all weekend. I'm going to have to read this tonight because there's just too much. What I got through at the beginning, though... Again, thanks for all your effort on my behalf.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Dartz Wrote:Twilight 2000 with Supers? Maybe that might work. But I don't think that's what the project that's being aimed for here.
Perhaps it could be a paragraph in the http://drunkardswalkforums.yuku.com/topic/3643]IST in Infinite Worlds sidebar...? If so, this would be IST-10. (Big sidebar.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Mark Skarr Wrote:Even though this is a personal attack, I'll address it as well.
...
But, put your money where your mouth is. Put out four years of information. Let’s see your first four years.
Er... that's also a personal attack...

Maybe we should all step back and relax until Bob's caught up with the thread.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
I haven't caught up yet, not at all; I just checked in to see what had been added since this morning.

But if we're headed into personal attack territory over this I'm going to abandon the idea of crowdsourcing and lock the thread. I was looking for help, not to increase interpersonal tensions on the forum.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Quote:Dartz wrote:

I think you're overdoing it on the catastrophe....
What makes a good World War catastrophic is not the first five minutes, it's the five years that follow. Nuclear weapons have been used before.... that doesn't mean people are going to be in a hurry to use them again. Especially not aimless "I hate you, have a mushroom cloud" spam. Might make a decent leadup to a post apocalyptic scenario.
Twilight 2000 with Supers? Maybe that might work. But I don't think that's what the project that's being aimed for here.
There is a method to my madness.
robkelk Wrote:Perhaps it could be a paragraph in the IST in Infinite Worlds sidebar...? If so, this would be IST-10. (Big sidebar.) 
And that's part of it, right there.  When Eidolon, Jillian, Psleeper, Roi du Sable and Running Gag close the anomalies, all of the events that occurred when they were active get pulled into an echo, leaving just their memories, and the occasional aftershock, behind.
robkelk Wrote:Er... that's also a personal attack...
And, you're right, Rob.  I apologize for that.  I was attempting to create competition and collaboration, but I did come off a bit heavy-handed.  I'm sorry.  
Inquisitive Raven Wrote:In fact, much of what I see Mark doing with South Africa in his tentative timeline looks like stuff that should have been happening in the 90's, unless something else happened to prevent it.
I took that "something else" to be that they were marshalling their forces for a moment when the U.N. was weak or distracted. . ..  Beyond their wildest dreams!

Dartz Wrote:Nuclear weapons have been used before.... that doesn't mean people are going to be in a hurry to use them again. Especially not aimless "I hate you, have a mushroom cloud" spam. Might make a decent leadup to a post apocalyptic scenario.

I meant to comment on this, but forgot to (me so stupid!).  This is actually addressed:
IST, sidebar pg 76 Wrote:Many nations, both in the U.N. and out, have built arsenals of tactical nuclear weapons. Many forces hostile to the IST, primarily the PLO and those who buy from it, have tacnukes and are more than willing to use them.

So, with Armageddon sulking on the horizon, many groups are in the "use 'em or lose 'em" mode.

With the exception of the Chinese, the only groups using nuclear weapons thus far have been terrorist organizations or rogue nations.  Everyone else has remained "conventional" no matter how unconventional that might have been.
The thing is, no sane mad dictator will use nuclear weapons and think they can get away with it. No sane mad dictator will use nuclear weapons just to make a point. Make a few cities go up in mushroom clouds isn't a great way of retaining power - which is ultimately the only thing any mad dictator wants. They want to appear bellicose and blustering to their own people. Have Palais Del Presidente turned into glowing glass by the response - along with the rest of the country - isn't the way to do that. Dead Dictators don't get to enjoy their power... they just get dead.

Terrorists don't have that same brake. But they still have families, homelands and the like and the certain knowledge that the moment they go nuclear, there's no going back. Osama Bin Laden considered going nuclear.... destroying powerplants in this case. He thought better of it. Can you imagine the American response to a 9/11 that left a pall of radioactive fallout looming over large parts of the east coast, and several States and Cities uninhabitable for years?

The horror of nuclear weapons - for their owners at least - is the sure knowledge that the moment they use them, not only have they crossed an irrevocable line that makes them fair game for anything the target they used them on to do in return to them (And their families), they've also used up their major bargaining chip against them doing that anyway. By maintaining just the 'willingness' to use nuclear weapons, as opposed to actively using them, it acts as brake on how far the nations of the world can actually push them. Because there's always the risk that if you push them too far they'll get desperate and actually use them. It forces people to the negotiating table faster.

It's not that difficult to tell where a nuclear weapon came from.... and any nation harbouring such organisations as those that're willing to use them may find themselves in a very dangerous position.

Somehow, however, I think a full blown discussion on nuclear strategy might be a bit.... off topic. That said, nuclear weapons are counterintuitive things by their very nature. And Nuclear Spam is a trope I really amn't a fan of.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?
Dartz, let me first start off with “in a sane world, you would be right.”  (Un?) Fortunately, we don’t have any sane, mad dictators here in IST.  Well, we do, they’re the ones not getting involved.  This isn’t a sane world—it’s being driven mad.  Keep the quote from above in mind “more than willing to use them.”

All that said there are a few other things.  First off, you have supers who completely change the balance of power.  A nuke is “predictable,” a super-powered person is not.

Second, this isn’t the first time nukes have been played with in IST.  The PLO has been using them, fairly judiciously, for some time.  Libya is known to have, at least, a hundred.  Iraq and Iran entered an actual nuclear and chemical war with each other.  They’re a “fact” of 20th century warfare in the IST world.  I am elaborating on that.

Third, you have nations ruled by metahumans.  If a terrorist organization decided to base themselves in such a nation, attacking them would be dangerous. 

I do understand your dislike for nuke-spam.  However, in the IST world, it is precisely what would happen.  That genie has long been out of the bottle.  Keep in mind that, in the IST world, strategic nukes are all gone—at least, in theory.  Retaliatory strikes have to be delivered.  Many nations will see nukes as the only option they have for removing the super hero factor from any combat equation.  While nukes are still terrifying weapons, they’ve been used.  That goes a long way toward making them “okay” to use.

I mean, look at BattleTech.  When the Word of Blake started lobbing nukes around it wasn’t very long before the rest of the Inner Sphere broke out their stockpiles of NBC weapons and started using them judiciously as well.  Heck, Clan Wolf in Exile/the Kell Hounds stole nukes from the WoB and used them on Clan Wolf  to get them to join in against the WoB.

If, in our world, the PLO had, as in the case of the IST world, used a half-dozen nukes on Israel, Bin Laden would have been much more likely to go nuclear against the US.  However, this really isn’t the place for a discussion about nuclear terrorism as it relates to our world.  This is about IST.  And, nuclear terrorism is a fact of IST.

And, as I pointed out, the people using nukes A, have a history of doing so (Libya and the PLO).  B, are a rogue nation (South Africa).  Or, C, no one is sure what the heck they’re thinking (China).

In a real world, you are spot on.  No sane person would want to use nukes.  Heck, many insane people are smart enough to not use them.  But, this world has already seen it happen.  To the people who use them, mad or sane, they’re just another weapon.  A powerful, dangerous weapon, but a weapon none-the-less.

But, again, I've got everything on hold until Bob has a chance to catch up on the thread.
First off, you are right that I missed Bob’s link in the
first post. When I saw a link listed as a 1990s timeline, I assumed it was an
excerpt from his GURPS IST book and didn’t bother looking closer. I also do not
have GURPS Y2K and have no plans to buy a 131 page PDF just so I can read 10
pages of text.

Your quote from GURPS Y2K does help make clear the odd lack
of precognitive warnings, but does not entirely explain away the problem.  The quote notes that precog stops working “sometime
during the year 2000” but also notes that precisely when precog stops being
effective varies among individuals and even between individual attempts. Thus
some of the nukes going off like popcorn over the course of the year should
have been foreseen and prevented. If you don’t want precogs getting in the way
of your plans, either push those plans back or add a few examples where attacks were stopped.

As an aside, your assertion regarding President Buchanan possibly
stockpiling nukes and your numbers regarding the speed of falling rocks
are both likely off.

Buchanan only entered office in 1997 and in 1998 he opened multiple American
fusion plants as part of his program of extricating America from dependence on
UN electricity. Fusion, not Fission. I'm fairly sure that America’s new power plants were not the
type used to make nuclear material. While America could have been making nukes
in theory, it seems less likely in practice.

Not that this matters in the slightest, as America wasn’t using nukes
in your timeline, instead apparently choosing to teleport out to the asteroid
belt to pick up rocks to throw at people. Frankly, I can think of many better
uses for teleporters that powerful.

Regarding space rocks, the extinction event meteorites were
certainly not traveling at substantial fractions of light speed when they hit.
Additionally, the speed of the rocks that America is apparently dropping on
cities is also quite odd. You claim they’re hitting at about 20 mps. Skydivers
fall faster than that (approx. 54 mps: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/JianHuang.shtml).  Meteorites are even faster, falling at 90-180
mps for rocks in the size range you’re claiming: “Due to atmospheric drag, most meteorites, ranging from
a few kilograms up to about 8 tons (7,000 kg), will lose all of their cosmic
velocity while still several miles up. At that point, called the retardation
point, the meteorite begins to accelerate again, under the influence of the
Earth’s gravity, at the familiar 9.8 meters per second squared. The meteorite
then quickly reaches its terminal velocity of 200 to 400 miles per hour (90 to
180 meters per second). (http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs/faqf/#12).”

As my final rebuttal to your previous posts before moving on to
new business, I do wonder where you got the idea that I’ve made some sort of
personal attack against you. The ‘offensive’ statement you quoted indicated
that “you seem to have a poor grasp of scale and
simply have various factions doing things without showing how other factions
react to those actions.” This was meant as an attempt at constructive criticism rather than a
personal attack. Shouldn't I be noting possible flaws in a proposed timeline before that timeline becomes canon and thousands of readers start asking the same questions?

Regarding scale:

1). You imply that Israel simply
waved its hands and 4 million Palestinians disappeared. This seems to be a
problem of scale to me.

2). You indicated that America attempted
‘Agent Orange’ style runs on the 26th largest nation in the world.  If America spent the entire duration of the
war doing nothing but pump out such attacks as fast as its planes could carry
them out, it probably still wouldn’t make a dent in the foliage. This is a
problem of scale.

3). You implied that America tried
carpet bombing a freaking huge desert region. This is another problem of scale.

4). You stated that a division of
Chinese soldiers entered Cuba, and within days the Cubans were all imprisoned,
all 11 million of them. This is a problem of scale.

5). You imply that South Africa
(which is indeed a very populous nation) could both conquer half of a continent
in two years and sustain a systematic culling of the local populace, yet gets
stopped dead by a tiny flyspeck of a country. Both their expansion and their
only competent opposition appear to lack scale.

As for you not showing the why of things:

1). According to Bob’s expanded timeline, the PLO ceased
hostilities and opened peace talks with Israel in 1995, came to an accord in
1997 and agreed on a location for a Palestinian homeland in 1998. By late 1999,
the Israeli military was actively assisting  the Palestinian
government  in suppressing Israeli  riots against the relocation efforts. How did
you go from this to the PLO hurling multiple nukes in under a year? (And unless
these are very clean nukes, the fallout from these blasts is going to do nasty
things to the Palestinians themselves.) What was the UN response? What was the
American response? What was the response of other world powers? And if Israel
is perfectly capable of teleporting 4 million Palestinians, why couldn’t they do
the same to the Jewish squatters?

2). You have Colombia going to war with the US (and later using Mexico
as a puppet ally). Why did they do this? How did various world powers react to
this?

3). You have South Africa steamrolling over a laundry list of
countries. Why? How did individual countries react? Who was opposing them and
how were they doing so?

4). China. Ditto on the steamrolling. Ditto on no clear motivation
provided for any of the steamrolling after the first two countries. Ditto on not
going in depth into who opposed them or why or how.

5). Why exactly is China giving away an effective super serum to a flyspeck African nation while also providing the secret to their fusion plant destroying technology to the PLO?
These are all examples of you having factions do stuff for
no clear reason and with no clearly defined opposition other than the people
they’ve conquered or are attempting to conquer.

As for providing an alternative, I did in fact consider posting some
more of my own ideas, but it was quite late when I finished my post and I realized
I simply wouldn’t have time before having to log off. I will attempt to order some
of my thoughts here.

Early 2000 –

Tensions between Britain and China remain high as both British and Chinese
militaries reinforce their bases in and near Hong Kong. Things come to a head when –
between one moment and the next – British and American troops formerly stationed in Hong Kong find themselves
deployed elsewhere in the world while Chinese troops wind up firmly in control
of the city. No shots were fired.

Conspiracy theories run rampant around the world, ranging from experimental Reality Bombs to mass brainwashing
and teleportation. The Chinese themselves have no
clue what happened, but are fully prepared to take advantage of the situation;
especially as they now control both the city and the surrounding support bases.

British diplomats petition the UN for international support in the
face of this unprecedented Chinese aggression while the President of the United
States makes public statements pledging continued American aid to his British
allies.

Two weeks later, while the issue is argued before the UN Security
Council, a major Colombian attack against the
UN’s New York headquarters – their most subtle one yet – finally succeeds.  Agents working for the cartels spent months covertly
breaking into the homes of low level UN employees, collecting hair samples from
combs and shower drains. They ran genetic tests on the samples to identify
individuals with high concentrations of metagenes.

The agents then had an operative with weak telepathic abilities
waylay these people during their morning commutes, made them ingest time
released medical capsules, and then send them on their way with no memory of
the encounter.

Hours later, the first of them succumb to a devil’s cocktail of jugo
and a paranoia inducing agent. He grows into an eight foot tall, heavily
muscled behemoth and goes on a psychotic killing spree, slaughtering 14 people
before being gunned down six minutes later.

Order is barely restored, with initial reports on the incident being uploaded
to the IST’s intranet, when the second victim – alone in a women’s restroom and
feeling sick to her stomach – transforms into a living black hole. Most of the
UN building effectively implodes upon itself, while an energy discharge along the
fringes of the effect bathe nearby neighborhoods in hard radiation which kills thousands
more.

As emergency sirens wail and the world clamors for answers, all that
is definitively known is that a Chinese-American janitor attacked and killed
several people in a berserk display of previously unrevealed metapowers. A
search of his apartment uncovers proof that he was in regular contact with
family still living in China. Speculation regarding spies and China's purported metahuman breeding program runs rampant.

As the UN reels from their shocking loss, President Buchanan swears retribution
against the Chinese aggressors who’d engage in a brazen and cowardly attack on
American soil. This declaration is immediately echoed by the British.

Concurrent with revelations in New York, North Korea’s megalomaniacal leader
sees the destruction of the UN headquarters and assault on America as a sign of
divine favor and immediately ordered his troops – already mobilized and in a state
of readiness – to commence with a late night attack.

Casualties along the heavily fortified DMZ are horrific, but the
momentum belongs to the North while the local IST branches are understrength as
they’d teleported their most effective agents to the site of the New York
disaster, where they’d helped put down an appearance by the Blue Demon.

China is stunned by Korea’s actions but feel they have no choice but to
send elite meta troops to bolster the second wave of the assault as to do otherwise
risks the collapse of an allied country at a time when the two most powerful
nations in the west are howling for their blood.

America and Britain go to a war footing while China attempts to
consolidate control over Korea. Reports regarding the apparent effectiveness of
Chinese metas during the attack on South Korea lead President Buchanan to urge
all American metas to do the right thing and express their commitment to their
great nation through military service, but does not yet institute a draft. As
America had already severed most overt ties to the UN, the Attorney General
assures the public that this does not violate American law.

Mid 2000 –

America and Britain establish military staging areas into Taiwan, Japan
and the Philippines. The IST makes vague noises about diplomacy and economic
sanctions, but still haven’t rebuilt a
clear and effective chain of command and are thus largely ineffective. Their apparent
impotence in the face of an attack on their headquarters and the fall of their
Korean branch lead many to question if they are in fact a straw power, fit only to fight tin pot dictators.

Tales of supposed North Korean atrocities in occupied South Korean territory
are frequently in the news; North Korea denounces the reports as baseless propaganda.

Other nations sympathetic to either or both of the western powers
supply token forces or material aid to the war effort, while cutting any
remaining economic ties with China.

The first skirmishes between the two sides occur, mostly in the form
of long range strikes, dogfights, naval maneuvering and probing raids by metahuman
squads. Results are inconclusive.

President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe begins forcibly redistributing
land controlled by his country’s white minority  to his political allies. South Africa protests
and an escalating series of border skirmishes begin taking place.

Chinese metas knock out several Western satellites as they pass over
or near their country. As a result, western intelligence regarding the Chinese interior
is limited.

Allied powers engage in a full strength push into South Korea, but are
forced to retreat after heavy combat that leaves tens of thousands dead on both
sides. China has too many metas on scene, and Allied command will not risk indiscriminate
bombardment of the heavily populated coastal region. A Chinese teleportation raid
on England is quickly repulsed, with few casualties.

Tibetan separatists try to organize an active resistance movement but
are rapidly suppressed. China is forced to redeploy assets to keep Tibet in
line.

Zimbabwe’s President Mugabe responds to continued South African
attacks by declaring war, possibly to unite rival factions in his government.

Late 2000 –

Fearing continued western military buildup in preparation for a second
invasion attempt and worried about the need to suppress unrest in occupied
territories, China goes on the offensive and attacks the third largest concentration
of western military forces in the region with a large meta strikeforce backed
by air superiority fighters and naval barrage. Early success brings hope for a
total victory, but the Americans soon rally and inflict 30 percent casualties on
the meta force through prodigious use of focused artillery barrages. The
Chinese retreat.

Zimbabwe and South Africa commit fully to war, and South African
troops make deep forays into Zimbabwe.

Palestinian government officials express concern over perceived
Israeli foot dragging in regards to the creation of a Palestinian homeland.

With the world’s attention elsewhere, Cuba and Guatemala rebuild from
their disastrous 1999 war with El Salvador.
xxx
More timeline in a day or two.
----------------------------------------------------

"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV
I'm really only going to say three things:

1. It's in miles per second, not meters per second. You should have figured that out. But, okay, I'll even take that as my fault. 32kps.

2. You could be more off, but you'd have to try. Not knowing what's actually going on, in my history, lets you make loud, boisterous, yet wildly inaccurate, statements. Keep in mind that I'm writing this stuff on the fly. Which helps get ideas out there that can be refined. By just nay-saying, you're not being helpful. Are all my ideas great? Great FSM, no. No first draft ever is. But, I was posting stuff for Bob to look at. We do need more information before we can really commit to anything. At least I was doing something.

3. You posted something constructive. Thank you. This is a colaboration for Bob to get ideas from. Some of your stuff is really good. Some of it, less so. But, now Bob has stuff to work with. That is the goal.
Now, I’m actually going to discuss some of your ideas.  These are all aimed at being constructive criticism, not a harsh critique:

Shepherd Wrote:Things come to a head when – between one moment and the next – British and American troops formerly stationed in Hong Kong find themselves deployed elsewhere in the world while Chinese troops wind up firmly in control of the city. No shots were fired.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense.  I see what you’re doing, but, really, how are they just hitting the troops?  And, are the troops taking their gear with them?  I’m assuming so, as you state that they’re “deployed elsewhere” in the world.

If they’ve got the reality bomb (for lack of a better name), I can see that Hong Kong might be a “real-world” test for the device, but, that’s quite dangerous.  After all, the whole world has their eyes on you in that place.  Sure, that would be an impressive display, but, if it backfires, you’re screwed.

And, you’re not clear about somethingBig Grinoes the bomb simply make it a fact that they were redeployed (to their surprise) and that the Chinese are now in control of the city?  Or did it redeploy the soldiers, and the Chinese had to come in and occupy the city? 

Shepherd Wrote:As emergency sirens wail and the world clamors for answers, all that is definitively known is that a Chinese-American janitor attacked and killed several people in a berserk display of previously unrevealed metapowers. A search of his apartment uncovers proof that he was in regular contact with family still living in China.
Terrifyingly accurate.  Scared people looking for a scape goat. 

Shepherd Wrote:China is stunned by Korea’s actions but feel they have no choice but to send elite meta troops to bolster the second wave of the assault as to do otherwise risks the collapse of an allied country at a time when the two most powerful nations in the west are howling for their blood.
I have a real hard time believing that China wouldn’t just reach out and snatch NK back.  NK would become a new province in China.  After all, this attack will make China lose face.

Shepherd Wrote:The IST makes vague noises about diplomacy and economic sanctions, but still haven’t rebuilt a clear and effective chain of command and are thus largely ineffective. 
I’m sorry, but that flies in the face of established canon.  The IST already has a clear and concise chain of command outside of the U.N.  They’re pretty much the most effective and efficient military on the planet.  The IST is a standing army fielding about 1,400 supers and around 30,000 powered armor infantry.  Also, the IST HQ is not the U.N. building.  It’s IST New York.  The IST’s chain of command is undamaged.

Shepherd Wrote:Their apparent impotence in the face of an attack on their headquarters and the fall of their Korean branch lead many to question if they are in fact a straw power, fit only to fight tin pot dictators.
This is both awesome (the last half is great!) and inaccurate.  While the U.N. may be stunned the ISTs would be fully-functional and ready to go (again, IST HQ wasn’t damaged, just the U.N.).  General Orders 1999-C-2 and 1999-C-15, which are quoted in Y2K, spell that out pretty well.  The ISTs are functionally autonomous—especially in light of an attack on the U.N. itself.  But, with IST NY still functioning (and, obviously on lockdown), they wouldn’t have any trouble.

Shepherd Wrote:Tales of supposed North Korean atrocities in occupied South Korean territory are frequently in the news; North Korea denounces the reports as baseless propaganda.
Again, terrifyingly accurate.

Shepherd Wrote:Allied powers engage in a full strength push into South Korea, but are forced to retreat after heavy combat that leaves tens of thousands dead on both sides. China has too many metas on scene, and Allied command will not risk indiscriminate bombardment of the heavily populated coastal region. A Chinese teleportation raid on England is quickly repulsed, with few casualties.
Why not deploy the reality bomb again, here?  It would make strong, tactical and strategic, sense.  Send the allies home again.  Make them feel impotent.
Shepherd Wrote:Zimbabwe’s President Mugabe responds to continued South African attacks by declaring war, possibly to unite rival factions in his government.
This is a bad plan and Mugabe would know it.  South Africa has attacked an IST before and was somewhat successful.  They’ve also been quiet for a decade . . ..

Now, that’s not to say that he’s not just making a stupid mistake, as history is full of those.  But, really, no part of southern or central Africa is going to stand much chance against a fully modern army led by metas.--A minor point.The US is not the good guys here.  That’s the U.N.
One last thought before I go to bed, myself. Knowing, Shepherd, that you haven't read Y2K answers a lot. And, while I understand not wanting to shell out money for a PDF you don't think you'll get much out of, really, I think you're selling it short as it's a fun read.

I'm going to quote one of my favorite sections from IST-2000.
Y2K, pg 113 Wrote:What's a superhero world without a villian-inspired plot? What plot could be greater than to bring the world to its knees with a disaster on an unanticipated scale, then to step in as its savior--or ruler? What if a metavillain of the first water were behind it all?
And that is a glimpse behind the curtain.
Whooo. Finally read through all this. Now it's time to digest it. There are great ideas all over the place. I just have to think of how to work them all together.

Thank you, everyone. And please, don't stop if you're having fun.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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