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Murmur the Fallen

basically what the subject line says: I know that you've detailed some of the history, but I would like to know a bit more, such as general level of technology (what kind of sci-fi stuff they have, how high tech some of the stuff is, etc.) and other things, and maybe contact with aliens and what not.
Oh, and were there any "metahumans" before the twentieth century?
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I know that you've detailed some of the history, but I would like to know a bit more, such as general level of technology (what kind of sci-fi stuff they have, how high tech some of the stuff is, etc.)
Well, you should know that trying to pin down the tech level in a superhero world is like trying to eat jello with chopsticks. But I'll give it a try. Warriors' World is running about 30 years or more in advance of our state of the art. UN infantry has powered armor, AIs and robots can be built with relative ease. Beam weapons are just starting to make their appearance in military arsenals. Forcefield technology is understood, although outside of the occasional gadgeteer it usually requires a large permanent installation and a dedicated power source. Computers are more powerful, the Net more interconnected; because of the presence of electropaths and superfolk who can turn into electricity, computer security is signficantly more sophisticated and capable.
Space travel technology is similarly advanced, thanks in part to the dozens of alien artifacts gathered over the years. (See below.) Earth's scientists haven't quite come up with its own star drive technology yet, but it's a matter of "when," not "if". In the mean time, we have more than enough other races happy to foist their junker starships off on the new kids on the block.
Gravity technology had it's "eureka" moment in the early1980s, and by the middle 1990s there was a wide variety of commercial gravity products on the market. The number one manufacturer is the Anson Corporation, whose Gravmaster series of AG drives has revolutionized airline safety, off-road vehicles and cargo handling, just to name three fields. Despite their obvious feasibility, though, there are only a few flying cars -- the FAA and similar bodies across the globe have vigorously resisted multiplying the number of flying craft in the air by a factor of a hundred or more...
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maybe contact with aliens and what not.
Earth, it seems, appears to be the galactic equivalent of the little convenience store inside the train station concourse. It's not exactly in the flow of traffic, but close enough that it's no trouble to go there. Aliens have been visiting the earth long enough and frequently enough that the folks who don't believe in them are the lunatic fringe, instead of the other way around. For instance, one of the big celebrities of the late 80s was an AI robot probe from an alien civilization who hung around the planet photographing and interviewing people for a year or so before returning to deep space.
The Meeranon (bipedal felinoids) have a long-standing trade agreement with the U.N.; although they are not a populous race and few of them actually reside on Earth, they are one of the most recognizable alien species to the average citizen. A symbiote race calling itself the Seeders visited the planet in the early 1990s, claimed to have created humanity, and asked the U.N. for permission to colonize/uplift dolphins. That request has been debated ever since... but the Seeders are apparently very patient.
Individual members of another dozen or two races can be found on Earth at any given time; some are private citizens living quiet lives, while others are criminals on the run, and others are tourists and thrill-seekers who've come to see Earth's unheard-of assortment of unique paranormals. The U.N. doesn't do anything much about these (except the criminals, who come under Warriors jurisdiction), although the suggestion has been made that a central alien registry bureau be formed. Once again, the topic is being debated...
In the mean time, the Warriors have frequent contact with other extraterrestrial (and extradimensional) civilizations, reports on which go right to the U.N. (and from there to the world at large).
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Oh, and were there any "metahumans" before the twentieth century?
No one's really sure, although every historian has his pet candidates. Pretty much everyone agrees Rasputin had to have been at least a proto-metahuman, but beyond that, well, the topic can cause fistfights at academic conferences. The key problem is that nobody can really agree where (and how sharp) to draw the line between human and metahuman -- a problem which has been plaguing professional sports since the 1950s. How fast can an Olympic runner go before he's too fast? How much can a competitive weightlifter lift before it's too much? A lot of people are uncomfortable putting an absolute upper limit on the levels of human achievement, but by the same token a lot of people view using metahuman enhancements in sports as "cheating". Extreme cases are easy to figure out, but the borderzone between is very fuzzy and few people want to look stupid trying to de-fuzz it. The identification of the metagenes in the 1980s has hurt almost as much as it has helped -- fully a third of the world's top athletes could conceivably qualify as "training-enhanced" (no inherent powers, but possessing enough metagenes that excessive conditioning results in borderline metahuman physical abilities).
In any case, when it comes to arguing about historical figures, one historian's metahuman is usually another's extraordinary human. The frequency with which leaders such as Caesar, Alexander and Charlemagne have been assigned "enhanced charisma" or even mass mind control powers by fringe historians has somewhat discredited even legitimate efforts at "archaeological metabiology". As for more obvious powers (flight, power blasts, etc.), with the exception of some dubious Inquisition records, there appear to have been no metahumans of that level prior to the Metahuman Explosion of 1929. (Of course, there are always those who say every religious figure back to the first Pharoah had to have been "just" a metahuman; Christ is a favorite target, particularly among pre-Soviet Collapse Marxist-revisionist historians. (Although the Marxists had their own problems with even recognizing the more "spiritual" metagifts for a long time...)

-- Bob
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Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Did you know about this line of research, when you made the statement about discovering antigravity in the 1980's?

popularmechanics.com/scie...rint.phtml

This is from an article in Popular mechanics in 1999, but it specifically mentions a researcher in the 1980's.
We may not have the superheros, but we may have the something similiar to antigravity very soon.
howard melton
No, I didn't know about that. Thanks for the link, that's very intriguing!

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

Murmur the Fallen

You know, looking at Doug's uniform, I suddenly saw that it looked incredibly like a sentai uniform--you know, those guys in jumpsuits and helmets in colors of the rainbow what pilot giant robots--all those shows that were brought over here as power rangers.
just an observation.
So anyway, I guess this means that unlike nearly every other comic book universe there aren't any immortals around, beyond the gods, like Vandal Savage or Jason Blood or marvel's apocalypse or the master or nearly everyone in wildstorm.
and how about time travel?
Oh, and if Doug is a colonel, what rank does Silverbolt hold?
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You know, looking at Doug's uniform, I suddenly saw that it looked incredibly like a sentai uniform--you know, those guys in jumpsuits and helmets in colors of the rainbow what pilot giant robots--all those shows that were brought over here as power rangers.
Doug wears motorcycle leathers, more or less. A custom design on the jacket, but really, that's all his "uniform" is. I suspect that the sentai "standard" uniform is really much the same thing, possibly by evolution from Kamen Rider... but I don't know that much about sentai, honestly.
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So anyway, I guess this means that unlike nearly every other comic book universe there aren't any immortals around, beyond the gods
You mean, other than the Fae and the vampires? If there are human(oid) immortals, they're doing the smart thing and not making a fuss about it.
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and how about time travel?
Mechanical time travel is not really feasible at this time, although the occasional gadgeteer has come up with workable but unreproduceable devices. There is at least one metahuman known to possess time travel powers -- a Rocky Horror Picture Show fan who goes by the predictable nom d'aventure of "Time Warp" (and who has courted Hexe on occasion). Doug has demonstrated time-related powers, between "Freezeframe" and "Fly Like An Eagle". The metabiologists figure it's just a matter of time before they figure the whole mess out.
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Oh, and if Doug is a colonel, what rank does Silverbolt hold?
I believe she's a Lieutenant Colonel, but I'd have to check with Peggy or Helen to make sure.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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>Oh, and if Doug is a colonel, what rank does Silverbolt hold?
>
I believe she's a Lieutenant Colonel, but I'd have to check with Peggy or Helen to make sure.
Then what rank is Hexe? Brigadeer?
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
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If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
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Then what rank is Hexe? Brigadeer?
Probably. To tell you the honest truth, the paramilitary ranks have entered the game because I used one for Doug in the story and not the other way around. As such, they haven't quite "standardized" yet for all the team members.
What happened was that in 1996 or 1997, Kat and Joe Avins (Kat and Dwimanor) were commenting on one of the earliest versions of DW2. Therein was the ancestor of the scene where Doug whips out his ID to show the Sabers, only it took place on a rooftop instead of at Raven's. In that passage, Doug introduced himself as a Lt. Colonel, which I had thrown in because a) it sounded cool, and b) I didn't like the sound of Sylia et al. calling him "Mr. Sangnoir".
Joe read this and said, "No. He's chief of security, he should be a full bird colonel." I duly made the change, and after that, the paramilitary ranks slowly infiltrated the game world via the other players who liked the idea. Not everyone's claimed one, but no one's objected to the addition to the background, and after seven years or so, it'd probably be ridiculous to do so. I don't think Helen has explicitly declared Hexe's rank, but I can't imagine her being anything below a Brigadier. I know Peggy claimed a rank for Shadowwalker, but like I said before, I'm not sure what it is now. In any case, she's not on active combat duty right now, because she's organizing the new Warriors' Academy; Peg's been playing Silverbolt more often these days (and I can't remember if she ever picked a rank for S'bolt).

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

Murmur the Fallen

Sorry, bit depressed over my computer crashing--kind of like losing stuff to a fire . . . hoping to get it back somehow, but not much hope there.
ANYWAY
So basically Doug's world is like our world, only different dude. Other than armoured walking tanks and antigravity, it hasn't had the sort of science fiction "The entire world changed because of one new thing" thing going on.
Hmm . . . what other questions . . .
Um, oh, right; are there any actual vigilantes in Doug's world or are they all incorporated into officially recognized teams like Warriors?
Oh, and with Doug's references of "crunchies" in the early chapters, and his early career as a villain to get into Warriors, was he ever part of a pro metahuman, brotherhood of evil mutants type of group or movement?
So basically Doug's world is like our world, only different dude. Other than armoured walking tanks and antigravity, it hasn't had the sort of science fiction "The entire world changed because of one new thing" thing going on.

Oh my god... Is Gear Krieg anywhere in WW's past?
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Oh, and with Doug's references of "crunchies" in the early chapters, and his early career as a villain to get into Warriors, was he ever part of a pro metahuman, brotherhood of evil mutants type of group or movement?
I think it's not so much that as he's just a snob.
Blessed be.
-n
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===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
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So basically Doug's world is like our world, only different dude.
In precisely the same way that 2003 is just like 1973, only different, dude.
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Other than armoured walking tanks and antigravity, it hasn't had the sort of science fiction "The entire world changed because of one new thing" thing going on.
Actually, there are a lot of differences. I haven't said anything about politics here, for example. Japan is far more nationalistic/racist than in our world, for example, but that's something that I've mentioned a few times in the story proper. The sequence of American presidents is quite different, the European Common Market nations unified a bit earlier, the whole space program is different (and in fact there are several, including a UN program). The differences in computing technology are signficiant; ubiquitous computing and wireless network connections are to Warriors' World what electrical outlets are to us -- you just don't go somewhere without expecting them. There's a reason the WW version of the Internet is called the Tapestry -- it's a much denser and more richly-woven structure. Economically the planet is better off, because it's no longer a closed system and the extraterrestrial balance of trade is firmly in Earth's favor.
No, the world hasn't changed because of one big new thing. It's changed because of a million small new things.
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Um, oh, right; are there any actual vigilantes in Doug's world or are they all incorporated into officially recognized teams like Warriors?
Oh, yeah, there are vigilantes. They're almost institutionalized in some places like the USA (where they have a 50+ year history of operations).
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Oh, and with Doug's references of "crunchies" in the early chapters, and his early career as a villain to get into Warriors, was he ever part of a pro metahuman, brotherhood of evil mutants type of group or movement?
Nah, Doug's just a relatively low-key bigot. And not a terribly consistent one. He looks down on normals in general, but he's constantly making "exceptions" for the ones he spends any amount of time with. Lisa isn't a crunchy, for example -- at least not since the end of chapter 1 -- and he'd get upset if someone else were to refer to her in that way. But if he'd never met her before, he'd dismiss her out of hand without a second thought. It's not one of his more admirable traits, but the fact that he's willing to ignore his prejudices so easily is a bit of a counterbalance to it.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

Murmur the Fallen

Our United Nations actually has an office on space, but it's probably just an office. it's called the Office of Outer Space Affairs, which is basically an organization trying to reap some positive, nonwarbased space benefits from nations which have space capibilities, one of whom is Japan with their National Space Development Agency.
Anyway, you know, with the fact that metahumans showed up in the late twenties, I wonder if there are any wandering nazi superhumans wandering around and whether or not the League of Nations lasted longer than it did on our world.
I seem to recall running into some South American Nazis in a very early game, so it's probably safe to say a few are still around. The League of Nations lasted just as long as it did in our world. As Doug says at one point in the story, even with the presence of metahumans, things ran pretty much the same through to the end of WWII, at which point we start seeing the first adults born after the "awakening" of the metagenes.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

Murmur the Fallen

Why, and how, is the U.N. able to have, basically, its own standing army? How did the U.N. get so powerful? Does the United States actually pay its dues in Doug's world?
And speaking of the ol' U.S., are there any metas attached exclusively to the United States military? Or even to other countries. And if so, where does the jurisdiction come in? When do you call in your own nation's metas or on the Warriors?
And, say, how did the Warriors get founded anyway? Whose idea was it? How did it get a UN charter? Who funds it?
And does Warriors have any regular troops as back-up, crowd control, etc (a la Alan Moore's/Warren Ellis' "Stormforce" clean up and containment crews, and a squadron of so of orbital fighter jets who bombarded areas with acid bombs and tailored plague weaponry on StormWatch)? You know, are any SAS seconded to them?
Nearly every super-team has an iconic transport: the FF has the Fantasticar, the Avengers have the Quinjets, the Titans had their T-Jets, etc. How about the warriors?
What is Doug's family situation, anyway?
Speaking of Doug, does he ever endorse any musicians? Like, "I like his music. So should you."
-murmur the fallen
who remembers that someone mentioned a good AMV on this forum. What was the title again?
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Why, and how, is the U.N. able to have, basically, its own standing army? How did the U.N. get so powerful? Does the United States actually pay its dues in Doug's world?
All good questions. And they're deliberately not answered in the campaign world. Around 1988 I wrote up a history of Warriors' World to explain these and other issues that bothered me, but when I offered it to the triumvirate of GMs at the time, it was declined. A year or so later I turned that timeline into GURPS I.S.T., so if you can find a copy of I.S.T. (or GURPS Supers), you can see what I thought should probably have happened to get us to the point where we were. (For what's happened since 1990, check out the page The IST World in the 1990s on my website.)
As far as Drunkard's Walk is concerned, assume the book timeline is reasonably close, with DW winning any conflicts or contradictions. Don't pay attention to the 1990s timeline on my website for DW -- the campaign world has been far less contentious and dark.
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And speaking of the ol' U.S., are there any metas attached exclusively to the United States military?
Just like in I.S.T., metahumans are forbidden from serving in national militaries. Private teams, corporate teams, clubs and all manner of organizations are okay, but conventional forces must remain conventional. In the campaign world, France's attempt to defy the Security Council by establishing a (new) national superteam in the early 1990s was the cause of a great deal of international tension, and at the moment is being dealt with in that time-honored diplomatic way -- it's being ignored until they actually do something vaguely military. For the most part, they're simply a PR stunt, and have stayed that way for most of a decade.
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And if so, where does the jurisdiction come in? When do you call in your own nation's metas or on the Warriors?
The Warriors are reserved for metahuman or metahuman-level threats (or worse), or for alien contact situations, or for outright illegal military action. (Case in point: if this were Warriors' World -- and the campaign wasn't stuck in 1998 at the moment -- I'd be expecting to see the Warriors deployed to Iraq any day now. Not to aid the US invasion, but to help repel it, if the US goes ahead without UN approval.)
Anyway, this doesn't mean we sit in the Mansion twiddling our thumbs most of the time. Local affairs are usually handled locally (by those same private or corporate teams I mentioned above), and for London, we are one of the local teams. Simply to keep in fighting trim, we often respond to police requests for aid. And sometimes we vig for the fun of it.
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And, say, how did the Warriors get founded anyway? Whose idea was it? How did it get a UN charter? Who funds it?
Honestly, I don't know the full story -- the campaign started long before I joined (to the best of my knowledge none of the original players remain!), and while I remember hearing the history at least once, most of it didn't stick with me. I do remember that the Warriors started as a private team based in New Jersey. They branched out into two groups, with the new one on the west coast, I think -- the teams were named Warriors East and Warriors West. Then, around 1984 or 1985, the U.N. banned nuclear weapons and national superteams, and the Warriors won the contract to be their super police force to enforce these bans, among other tasks. East moved to London, West moved to Japan, if I'm remembering right, which prompted the name changes to Alpha and Beta respectively, since having Warriors West in Tokyo made no sense at all. (I don't know why those locations were chosen; this was before my time.) At the same time, Warriors, Inc., became Warriors International. Anyway, we've been successful enough over the past 20 years that we've had no real challenges to our contract when it has come up for renewal. We're funded directly by the Security Council.
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And does Warriors have any regular troops as back-up, crowd control, etc
We have a hundred or so powered-armor infantrymen (UN peacekeeping troops from around the world) who act as guards, etc. around the Mansion.
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Nearly every super-team has an iconic transport: the FF has the Fantasticar, the Avengers have the Quinjets, the Titans had their T-Jets, etc. How about the warriors?
While we do have a jet -- loosely based on (ie ripped off from) the X-Men's old Blackbird, we rarely use it anymore. Instead, we have Skitz, his teleport gates, and access to a spy satellite network. Skits can open a gate to anywhere he can see, even if he only sees it via a TV screen. (He can also open a gate to any location he's got memorized -- and for a devastating attack in combat, he's got the bottom of the Marianas Trench memorized.)
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What is Doug's family situation, anyway?
A lot of this can be found in drips and drabs throughout DW2, but basically, Doug was born in 1962 in Hollywood, CA. His father is a major player in the film industry, his mother is a socialite and equestrian (former Olympic champion). Both are "old money". He was what he calls a "Beverly Hills Baby", growing up very, very rich among the very, very rich in the 1960s and 1970s. He is an only child, although he has several cousins, all of whom he hasn't seen in years. Since going public with his powers in the middle-late 1980s, he's been somewhat estranged from his parents, who see the kind of grandstanding and crazy behavior that marks his public persona as somewhat tacky; there are also political differences that have made for some tension.
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Speaking of Doug, does he ever endorse any musicians? Like, "I like his music. So should you."
It's never come up in the game, but in the DW world it has -- note the passage in chapter 11 where Doug mentions that Madonna has sent him prerelease copies of her albums so he can see if he can use anything from them. He would not stop her from capitalizing on anything he happens to be able to use, which amounts to pretty much endorsing her music.
Just about any "active" performer whose music he's used in a public situation has made a point of at least mentioning it somewhere. He does nothing to discourage this.
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who remembers that someone mentioned a good AMV on this forum. What was the title again?
There were several. Do you know more about which on you're thinking of?

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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(He can also open a gate to any location he's got memorized -- and for a devastating attack in combat, he's got the bottom of the Marianas Trench memorized.)
I hope it's a one-way gate, or people on his end are gonna get REAL wet from the water pressure of several hundred atmosphere's pouring out...
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large
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I hope it's a one-way gate, or people on his end are gonna get REAL wet from the water pressure of several hundred atmosphere's pouring out...
Um, Josh? That's the devastating attack. He points the gate at the bad guy(s) and opens up to the Trench.
Oh, and he has a Victorian-era habitat on the moon (his teleport range is a bit farther than the mean lunar orbit). When we have someone we need to stash securely on short notice, he opens a gate to this brass-and-glass dome, which refreshes its air supply; then we toss the unfortunate person through and close the gate.
And that's just the powers from one of his incarnations...

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
...Skitz...
...So I assume he and Crazy Jane would get along like a house on fire? (Interpret that any way you please, they'd probably all be right at once.)
--Sam
"Ninja are more afraid of you than you are of them."
Skitz is a little different from Crazy Jane. As John, his player, describes it, he's some kind of embodiment of the spirit of mankind, who has been reincarnating since some time around the Stone Age. Every time one of his (sometimes her) incarnations reaches age 21 -- until recent times this was very rare -- that incarnation gains a unique power and access to the memories, personalities, and powers of all the other incarnations. Like an ordinary MPD sufferer, under stress he may switch from one personality to another, but they're not broken fractions of a single mind -- they are actually entire people in their own right, the last few in the chain being historically documentable. (Like the Victorian incarnation who built the moon base I mentioned above.)

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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He points the gate at the bad guy(s) and opens up to the Trench.
I just want to state for the record that firing an Omega class weapon on the ground, let alone in an atmosphere, is a bad idea (tm). Based on some _very_ rough calculations (and I know there's more than what I did, but it should be in the ballpark), the water will come out at a rate of over 100k/sec/sec - assuming a gate 4 square meters in area you could flood the island of Manhattan to a depth of 1 foot in just under 45 seconds, and the entire state of Rhode Island to a depth of about 1 foot in 20 minutes!
Just some perspective for ya...
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large
John's an engineer; he's probably run the numbers himself at one time or another, so I wouldn't be surprised if he had the actual flow worked out down to the ounce. But to be absolutely honest, Warriors' World is a game with a certain amount of "flexible reality", and a lot of "Don't Look At This Too Closely".

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Fair 'nuff, but as someone who has designed and analyzed dozens of Omega-Class weapons over the years I had to point out the potential Smile
Offsides
Drunkard's Walk Forum Moderator and Prereader At Large
Y'know, ISTR reading in Popular Science or some equally dodgy "gadgets-for-the-masses" magazine about some bright young boffin using a pressurized stream of water as a cutting tool...
Imagine a one-way pinhole gate attached to a sword hilt, and then another one-way gate a few feet ahead in a straight line. Run the gates as a current through the Challenger Deep and voila, I gave you the watersaber! %)
Silly, but I like silly.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
Very cute. I'll have to remember that, maybe for an upcoming Warriors adventure.

-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Quote: "Y'know, ISTR reading in Popular Science or some equally dodgy "gadgets-for-the-masses" magazine about some bright young boffin using a pressurized stream of water as a cutting tool..."
Actually cutting with a highpressure waterjet is an established industrial process, for example it's used to cut things that would be the heat from a lasercutter or sawblade, like cetain types of plastic or rubber but I've seen picture of it used to cut a 5 millimeter thick Aluminium sheet.
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