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Pulled from standby because *koff**koff* Umm ... blocked on MS. Again. Sorry. *ahem*
Editsu-ed, mostly to account for the 'lack of Avalon' I hadn't really parsed from the game's synopsis of 'Fate'.
- simple explanation as to why Shiro's still got his 'youthful good looks'? I've applied the principle of Contagion to Type-Moon's world's workings. Shiro's spent a fairly long time 'hosting' and using a magical artifact of a power rating that was, quite frankly, through the roof. Even after its removal, the Magic Circuits in his body remained irrevokably altered to reflect that.
---
Everything is.
Everything was.
Everything can and will be.
So why not ...?
---
Fate/Split Daybreak
01: No Armor Against
a Fate/Stay Night AU/continuation
idea and cooperation by ordnance11
written by Griever
Copyright 2006(c)
---
'The much valued beauty, the subtle cut, of a truly perfect gemstone. Light, reflected by its facets, splitting off into paths ad infinitum, each similar yet not the same as the others. The universe, this wondrous and horrific place we live in, can surely be likened to a gemstone. A myriad of reflections, an infinite number of possibilities, and each such reflection a world. Each subtle tremor of the light, each particle of it, a human being.
That, of course, is simplifying things, but there are some truths an unprepared mind is simply not capable of perceiving. For all its adaptability, the human mind is seldom prepared.
Hence, the need to a medium. A physical, somewhat simpler interpretation that lets a theory actually be usable, and not just look pretty.
It could have been anything, really. Still ... there's a certain something to a gemstone, don't you think?'
-attributed to Zelretch, the first Jewel Mage


In the grand tradition of cliches, it was raining. A soggy, cloudy afternoon in London. One you'd be hard pressed to chase a dog out into.
It fit the mood.
Fit it all too well.
Symbols.
So many things about their lives were ultimately about symbols. The most important among them.
It rushed through her like a particularly loud heartbeat, making nerves tingle as it spread outwards, momentarily seeming to shift things without actually doing so.
"Is that any way to greet an old friend?" the voice asked, its owner's head cocked to one side. It was both entirely too familiar, and entirely too foreign a motion for said person to make.
It made her shiver and pull the collar of her coat - its designer label leather slick with rainwater - up in an ultimately futile gesture.
"Old?" she asked, even as the energies of the Kekkai settled around them, shifting the surrounding area subtly out of phase with the Reality that Was.
"Heh. If you want to get technical about it," he shrugged, oblivious to the rain.
Not a day.
It wasn't unheard of for Mages to slow their own aging. She herself didn't look a day over twenty, and would likely still look that way for decades to come.
He hadn't aged a day since she'd last seen him. Though she wouldn't admit it, it made things ... somewhat difficult. And not merely because the 'how' of that brought forth all sorts of interesting implications.
But then again, she was an accomplished Magi. 'Difficult' wasn't bad enough for her to lose any sleep over.
"I'm sorry about this," she shook her head. "You know the Association has been looking for you for the past several years. Ever since you ..."
"... disappeared? I figured as much. I had, no, I have my reasons, Tohsaka."
"You could have just stayed where you were, Shiro," Tohsaka Rin of the Mages' Association said. "Kept your head down, and they wouldn't have bothered to send anyone. Whatever you're doing, it's pointless. Just making yourself more of a target!"
"They've designated me to be Sealed?" he shrugged, then chuckled, looking unconcerned. The feeling of unreality that Rin had been experiencing since she'd first seen him, standing in front of the British Museum, the front of the main headquarters of the Association, the so called 'Clock Tower', increased. It wasn't like seeing only Emiya Shiro. It was ... like seeing both him and someone else overlaid on top of that.
"I don't want to fight you."
"My sentiment exactly, but sometimes we don't have that choice ... now do we? Sometimes fighting is inevitable," he retorted. "Isn't that what you tried to prove to me during the War?"
The Grail War. It seemed like something so small, so far away ... despite the gravity of the events that had transpired during the whole thing. Had they really gone through all that only to end up like this?
"I'm sorry," Rin said, steeling herself even as she began gathering energy, the Circuits in her body activating and starting to channel it.
Dolche der Vergeltung released the energy, guiding it along well worn paths and calling jeweled daggers into the Reality around her. Each of them razor sharp, their points towards Emiya Shiro's body.
"I know," he gave her the ghost of a smirk, hauntingly familiar. "I've learned a few things as well."
For a moment, she was assailed by feelings of Deja Vu. She knew, instinctively, that she'd felt that energy before. The way it moved, the way it shaped itself, the ripples of Reality that it sent outwards.
Something had always nagged her about Shiro, about what he could do, but she'd never been able to put a finger on it.
Now though?
The two short swords, wide bladed and heavy looking, yet wielded with such seemingly casual ease. The stance. The smirk. Younger looking, yes. But otherwise ...
"I'm sorry too, Rin. I won't take it easy on you. I am ..." he tensed. On instinct, she let the Dolche fly.
Shiro moved.
Jewel shards littered the air moments later, even as raindrops were flung ever-which way by the storm of motion the man in a boy's body had exploded into. Every move, every strike, every mannerism in that fight ...
... it was so obvious.
"A ... Archer?"
The younger mirror image of her summoned Servant during the Grail War. Down to the weapons and skills.
Then he gave her a sad sort of look, and spoke, even as she felt the Circuits in his body flare into life with an intensity she'd last felt at the apex of the War such a long time ago. Even if this time the way the energy flowed was different.
"I am the bone of my sword."
***
"It's ironic, you know," the voice greeted her as she woke, her body hurting but still very much alive.
Her eyes snapped open, only to see ...
... one of the Association's Vaults, warded titanium door hanging from its supports, torn open.
Dust hung thick in the air, the smell of fire and rubble bringing back old memories.
She could see Shiro standing in the middle of the otherwise demolished Vault, in front of a dais. His clothes - jeans, leather jacket, sweatshirt ... he hadn't changed his taste in those, at least - torn and ragged. Bloodied in places. Flesh cleanly visible beneath the tears, unblemished.
"What is?" she asked, forcing herself to sit up and making a quick assessment of her body. She'd felt every single cut that the endless blades had inflicted upon her, but somehow, all that was left were bruises.
"I went to Atlas, broke into the Lost Library of Alexandria, looked up old wives' tales and rumors ..." he turned to face her. "... and what I'd been looking for? It was right in front of my nose. Had been there since before the War. The notes of your ancestors, in fact, in your old home back in Fuyuki. The infinite reflections in the face of a gemstone."
In his hands was ... now she recognized it, and the vault ... the gem which the first of her ancestors who'd learned Jewel Magic had crafted.
"You can't be serious," she protested. "The way to use that is a lost Art! There's nobody left alive who knows how to do it."
"Outside of you, maybe," he said. "I've kept up with you, Rin. I've seen you go through those notes, I've seen you try and recreate the sword of the person who taught your ancestor Jewel Magic. It was hard to miss. After all, it's what got you your position in the Association."
"You want the sword? Is that why you're doing this? For the power? The Emiya Shiro I knew wouldn't ..."
"I could care less about the sword or the gem," he glared at her. "Zelretch postulated his infinite number of worlds. Reflections of Reality as Is. Everything being now, and Now being all-encompassing. I just want one thing, Rin. For old times' sake. I need your _help_ to keep a promise I made."
***
Tohsaka Rin, one of the elite of the Mages' Association, stood in the rain.
The news would label it a terrorist attack. The Association ... well, she had enough influence that she'd be believed if she sprouted something about an unknown attacker and having to resort to her ancestors' gem to vanquish them.
She'd gone from the ruined British Museum moments before the Kekkai failed, weaving a minor spell of avoidance around herself with the remaining Odo she still had.
Emiya Shiro.
She shook her head, half incredulous, half wistful.
He really didn't fit into the webs of intrigue of the Association or their competitors. Too principled. Too straight-forward. Too ... loyal.
A promise, indeed.
For all the changes, for all the revelations ... there was something about him that made sure she couldn't not help him when asked.
Something ...
... something ...
... well, it was gone now. Along with the man in a boy's body himself.
Gone into a facet. Into a reflection. Into a Reality that Was, riding the tether of Fate.
Everything she'd learned, everything she'd believed, told her Fate simply was. Without a way to alter it.
There was no armor against Fate. She'd told him that much ...
... told. Told. She'd just about begged him not to try and change it. It was, she almost smiled, still about as useful as arguing with a brick wall. Damnable, mule-headed, feeble-minded crusader-wannabe ...
No armor against Fate.
But armor ... it's not the way, Tohsaka. Armor only lets you endure. I want to split it. Break it. Shatter it into pieces. And for that, armor is useless.
He was right, she realized.
For that, armor _was_ useless.
For that, one needed a weapon.
And where weapons were concerned ...
I am the bone of my sword.
Steel is my body, and fire is my blood.
I have created over a thousand blades.
Unaware of loss.
Nor aware of gain.
Withstood pain to create many weapons.
Waiting for one's arrival.
I have no regrets.
This is the only path.
My whole life was ... Unlimited Blade Works.

The rain fell, drenching her as she watched the police secure the area. It was inconsequential.
It was just rain, after all.
No matter how much the water felt like tears as it ran down her cheeks.
Good luck, Shiro-kun.
---
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
*points at self*
Little ole me....?
I wasn't the one who pushed you down this road..I just merely showed you the path.... ^^
As for the piece...
Subarashi!
I wondered about the mechanism in which Shiro could travel back to Saber....it's very elegant idea that jewel magic can do it...
As for Shiro's reality marble...I've only seen doujin images of it...it looks like a kekkai at first glance, but it's were Shiro is literally God inside that pocket dimension.
The idea of Shiro already as Archer...or on his way to becoming him..hmmm...lemme think about it some more.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Quote:
I wondered about the mechanism in which Shiro could travel back to Saber....it's very elegant idea that jewel magic can do it...
It seemed too handy a plot device not to use, and best of all, it was right _there_ since Zelretch apparently does dimension hopping via Jewel Magic for fun. Not that big a stretch of the imagination that it could be adapted appropriately.
Quote:
The idea of Shiro already as Archer...or on his way to becoming him..hmmm...lemme think about it some more.
Well, he's had a couple of years since the War ended. Enough to do some research, go on a quest of self-discovery, and figure out his connection to Archer, at least IMO. Artistic license and whatnot.
I'm thinking, he gets the white hair after/during the transit to where Saber is at. Some sort of side-effect to indicate that Rin's mastery of Jewel Magic isn't exactly perfect? Hmm ... heh. Right. Idea. *chuckle*
I'm considering him ending up a bit ... off target, let's say, so that him actually _getting_ to Ye Ole Britain and through the World as Was back then could be a mini-arc in and of itself. Say, one where he picks up his reputation as a 'sage' (getting called that sends him into a fit of choking laughter every time?).
*chuckles* Hells, if we're talking over the top, might as well have him cross the Mediterrean to try and get to Britain and end up shipwrecked on an island where he meets Medusa, err, I mean Rider, again.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
Beyond the deep-seated, 'woooow, that's so cool!' reaction, I'm actually sort of split on this. On the one hand, making that the last we see of Rin would probably be the most, mm, dramatically effective thing you could do - it has a tremendous emotional impact, and is just sort of deeply right.
On the other, she's unbelievably cool on several different counts, and I'd miss her greatly if she didn't show up again.
I
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."
I'm not that caught up on my Greek mythology but potentially, Archer'd meet a whole bunch of the Servants if he ended up in Greece such as Heracles and Medea...
Quote:
Well, he's had a couple of years since the War ended. Enough to do some research, go on a quest of self-discovery, and figure out his connection to Archer, at least IMO. Artistic license and whatnot.
I have to wonder if he has the skill to wield a weapon he traces effectively....if not:
I see this vision of him being taught by a severly myopic Chinese master of the Hidden Weapons style.
*head desk*
Quote:
I'm considering him ending up a bit ... off target, let's say, so that him actually _getting_ to Ye Ole Britain and through the World as Was back then could be a mini-arc in and of itself. Say, one where he picks up his reputation as a 'sage' (getting called that sends him into a fit of choking laughter every time?).
How off target..how about a certain room in what used to be an inn in Jerusalem where the Lord Jesus Christ celebrated Passover. It'll take him at least 2 years by land travel to get to Britiain...probably 6 months if he wants to hazard a sea voyage all the way.
Quote:
*chuckles* Hells, if we're talking over the top, might as well have him cross the Mediterrean to try and get to Britain and end up shipwrecked on an island where he meets Medusa, err, I mean Rider, again.

*remembers a doujin of Rider*
*does a Karin*
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Quote:
I'm not that caught up on my Greek mythology but potentially, Archer'd meet a whole bunch of the Servants if he ended up in Greece such as Heracles and Medea...
Wrong time period, I'd say. Well ... okay, so Heracles wouldn't be that much of a stretch, given that whole demi-god thing ...
Dunno about Medea.
Aww, hell ... handwavium. We'll see.
Quote:
I have to wonder if he has the skill to wield a weapon he traces effectively....if not:
I see this vision of him being taught by a severly myopic Chinese master of the Hidden Weapons style.
*head desk*
*hands him an icepack*
Actually, from what I've read in the spoilers, his Imaging can and does impart both skill and even goes as far as to copy brute force. In the Heaven's Feel scenario, he copies both Berserker's sword, and his strength.
In any case, China is a bit too far.
Quote:
How off target..how about a certain room in what used to be an inn in Jerusalem where the Lord Jesus Christ celebrated Passover. It'll take him at least 2 years by land travel to get to Britiain...probably 6 months if he wants to hazard a sea voyage all the way.
Oooh. That certainly has potential, yes. ^_^
Quote:
*remembers a doujin of Rider*
*does a Karin*
Well, that's a natch for that particular plot-point, I'd think.
*imagines Rider in a toga*
*does a Karin*
Right now I'm wondering how well organized the various Mage groups were back then. Hmm. Note to self, need to flesh out the Church, or look for more info.
-Griever
and that's without considering the other mythologies and their heroes and related kipple ... say, when _was_ Beowulf?
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
Quote:
Actually, from what I've read in the spoilers, his Imaging can and does impart both skill and even goes as far as to copy brute force. In the Heaven's Feel scenario, he copies both Berserker's sword, and his strength.
In any case, China is a bit too far.

Actually, I was thinking when he tried experimenting with dimensional hoping, he ended up in the Ranmaverse.
It was Archer's dual chinese swords that brought that up.
Quote:
and that's without considering the other mythologies and their heroes and related kipple ... say, when _was_ Beowulf?

Well, the only written copy was written in the 10th century...but Beowulf was supposed to had lived in the 6th..in Scandanavia.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

WengFook

Dual Chinese Swords..... AH! Thanks ord i've been trying to place the style of those blades subconciously for a while now [Image: happy.gif] _______________________________
"We few, we happy few. We band of buggered"
_________________________________
Take Your Candle, Go Light Your World.
Quote:
My body is made out of swords.
I just found out the entire incantation for Unlimited blade Works
I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unaware of loss
Nor aware of gain
Withstood pain to create weapons
Waiting for ones arrival
I have no regrets. This is the only path
My whole life was
Unlimited Blade Works

__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
I've started this off gods know how many times, and ended up deleting all of them save this. Let's see where things go from here ...

AN: Still ord's fault ^_^.
Well, this was heartening, all things considered.
The problem, though, was the simple fact that time had passed, and despite being secure from the ravages of the elements before the place he'd ended up in was, there and then, falling apart around him.
Almost literally.
The last departing energies of the Great Spell sizzled in the air around him, even as they faded into nothingness, signaling the rite's completion ...
... about damn time, too.
He could feel it. Feel it in his blood, feel it in his bones, feel it in the back of his mind and in the flickering reflection of this Reality left on his retina after he'd stepped into it.
He had finally reached his destination.
... mostly.
He looked down towards the violently swirling waters below. He'd gone around this damn island so many times he'd just about lost track, and there was no living soul to be found.
Plenty of dead ones, though. Recent as well, if the bones were anything to go by.
So, here he was, sitting on little more than a giant hunk of rock and ruin in the middle of the Persian Gulf sometime around the 6th century AD ...
Oh, well ... not the gravest situation he'd ever been in even by a longshot. Although, just in case worse came to worse, he really should see about trying to scavenge enough to put together a boat.
He cast another baleful look at the dilapidating fortress.
Well, alright, maybe a raft.
---
Fate/Split Daybreak
02: The roads we walk.
---
'The journey of a thousand miles is said to begin with a single step, hence, most think of that as the most important step.
It isn't.
To walk a thousand miles, you have to endure. It isn't merely that first step, that initial decision. Every step is a decision, an exercise in endurance ...
And how you walk every single step is just as, if not more, important as the destination.'

Looking at it evoked a ... decidedly odd sensation in the king's chest. Was it foreboding? A shadow of the future?
"My liege? Is something wrong?"
"Did you feel that?"
"Feel what, my liege?"
The king frowned.
"No, it was probably nothing," a brief shake of the head, as if to banish the sensation. It lessened, but didn't quite give way. "It's certainly impressive."
"King Leodegen is somewhat ... enamored with grand gestures. I am quite familiar with this particular piece," the adviser shrugged. "I do believe, though, that ignoring the bride in favor of looking over the dowry can be considered ... bad form. When done for too long at least."
The king grimaced. Yes, there was that, wasn't there.
"Oh, come now, I hear she is quite comely."
"Do not bait me, Magus. It's frustrating enough as it is, this situation."
"I did warn you, did I not? The person to pull the sword from the stone will become the king of Britain, I said. Well, there are some fictions one must adapt, after all. We all have our crosses to bear, Arturia."
"And since when did you become a devout Christian?"
"Since it suited my needs," Merlin offered an unconcerned shrug.
"Wonderful," Arturia pinched the bridge of her nose in exasperation. The irascible magus had a way of getting to her, and not in a good way. Still, his advice was more often than not sound.
"Alright," the 'king' of the Britons sighed. "Let's go see to meeting this sacrificial lamb I've been sent."
"Must you be so grim about this? 'Tis a grand occasion, I assure you."
"Yes, imagine how she must feel," Arturia retorted, droll.
"Just one question."
Arturia rapped the knuckles of one hand against the back of her advisers skull. "No, you can't watch, you damned lech."
As the king and her adviser left the grand hall, one of the high backed chairs set by the great round table that had just been set up inside it briefly shuddered, before a faint glow briefly outlined a pattern in the back of the backrest, then faded out.
***


ETA: humorous doujin linkage ahoy. Read it: www.chiyochan.net/fate/res/17817.html
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
Hah.
Still, my favorite is the Berserker Ilya.
Thought:
This puts a whole new twist on the Lancelot and Guinevere subplot. Which knight does Shiro replace?
He doesn't _replace_, not exactly. Though, if you must know, that's the Grail Knight's seat that's reacting. Yes, it's not the same Grail ... or is it?
There's a lot of room for interpretation and artistic license, even in Type-Moon's source, where this matter is concerned.
As for Frenchie's subplot? That's sort of the point of this, isn't it?
Well, among others.
Hmm ... anybody got a guesstimate as to how long Arthur was on the throne in the legends? I know that the final battle with Mordred and his death happened around 537AD-ish.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
The search for the Grail prior to the final battle must had taken 5-10 years. The Western Roman Empire lost it's hold on Britain at about 430 AD. So you have a 100 year span between that event and the Final battle between Arhur and Mordred. I would estimate 30 years realistically. Of course, in Type-moon's scene, you can extend it to 100, and it would be plausible.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
I pulled this off from the Animesuki forum:
Quote:
First off: Eireis!
Legendary heroes who have gained fame, power and prestige back when they were alive: these are known as Eireis. These Heroic Spirits accumulated fame and power during their lifetime, have been known to accomplish great deeds and thus, even beyond their deaths, were remembered as figureheads of mankinds.
Basically, they're the epitome of the hopes and wishes of mankind. Eireis are basically legendary people who have really done deeds beyond their nature - such as slaying "troublesome beasts" way stronger than them (cause sometimes they aren't just beasts at all, it's a rough collective term to use, but oh well). They have averted great danges and have been remembered for their deeds and acomplishments (wow, this line is repetitive). You have to remember, however, that back then, humans were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than they are now. Bedivere was able to run way faster than a normal human, that's an example.
Anyways, when these legendary figureheads die, they become Eireis. They are absorbed by the Throne of Heroes which goes beyond the concept of time, as well as worlds - basically the Throne not only transcends time, but every parallel world of Earth. Eireis are stored depending on the information that the Throne has accumulated back when they were alive up to the point of their death. Not every deed of the hero will be recorded by the Throne, but (IIRC) those that are more remembered by the people. Stuff like that. Importance and the like. oh, and what's important is to remember that once recorded by the Throne of Heroes, an Eirei will always exist. And even if a paradox will force the world to rescind the Eirei's existence, it will still exist. As to how I don't know.
Anyways, these Eireis are kept in the Throne of Heroes, as spirits with neutral personalities to be accessed by the world or Araya. While Eireis are beneficial to humanity - they are, after all its protectors, there is a darker side of Eireis that Archer realized.
As for memories, in order for these perfect culmination of humanity's hopes and dreams to become untainted, these Eireis remember nothing after their death, they only remember what has transpired during their lifetime, as well as what the Throne of Heroes has recorded for them. After their death is a different story - they have records which involves information of their duties (what they have done as Eireis) stored within the Throne for the main spirit to access (IIRC yet again). These records however are not direct memories - they're like, well...diary entries, for the lack of a better comparison.
So we come to: Counter Guardians! The other Eireis.
Well, we all know that humanity is not all-knowing, omnipotent and omniscient, despite every effort at doing so. And, usually, due to limited human knowledge and self-awareness, we often cause more harm to ourselves and others than good.
But what if the harm is enough to endanger the greater good of humanity? Here comes the Counter Guardians. These are Eireis tasked to respond to dangerous situations - usually where massive destruction can, and, or will occur - only when human intervention is at work. In other words, if humans foolishly caused the trouble, in some way or another, Counter Guardians will be sent to eliminate the problem - by eliminating any and all humans within the vicinity (or so it's implied).
Think of this as killing the few for the good of all. Archer was an Eirei to have become a Counter Guardian - this was the pact he unknowingly made with the world. Also, Archer is the only Eirei that's relegated into being a Counter Guardian, so I can assume that most Counter Guardians are usually nameless "Eireis" in a sense.
If Eireis exist to protect humanity from anything that threatens it (Type-Human? Hilarious), then Counter Guardians also exist for the same purpose - but only if it was done by human hands, and it usually involves human casualties. Tsk, nothing we can do there.
See why Archer sudenly hates his existence?
On to: Servants!
As repeatedly stated, Servants are simply Heroic Spirits, yet weaker than they should be. The Servant system of Heaven's Feel makes use of the pre-existing Eirei system within the Throne of Heroes as the Greater Grail works to access the Throne of Heroes.
Servants are, first of all, unrestrained to physical bodies. This is what makes them sooooooooooooooooo dangerous. They cannot be harmed by conventional weapons - guns, swords, knives, missiles, heck, even nukes. Scary! Hence, why Servants are harmed and killed only by hougus, or sorcery-enforced attacks (Souiichirou giving Saber a beatdown was because he was superbly reinforced by Caster).
These Servants, however, are only copies of the real Eirei that is existing within the Throne - the same case when the Grail uses Eireis/Counter Guardians to accomplish a particular task. So you cannot say that you can actually kill the Eirei behind a Servant. It's impossible. You can kill the Servant, since they are only temporal projections of the Eirei they are based on. A little roundabout, yes?
Servants are way weaker than Eireis. Eireis are way stronger than Servants. But Servants are given consciousness and personality when they are summoned and utilized, unlike Eireis who are summoned as pure power (fuyuki wiki, and most especially arai of Beast's Lair, I credit you for all this info! It's impossible for me to impart such knowledge otherwise!).
As for Servants depending on how they perform based on how they were back alive, that depends on you - rather, the Master. Even if the Master can provide high amounts of mana to the Servant, their MGI affects their mana capacity, still limiting their performance unequal to their performanc eof when they were alive. They may be weaker in performance, but nothing beats having a spiritual body that you can dematerialize or materialize at will! Oh, and one of the benefits is that it literally makes you unkillable, unless another Servant doesn't think very highly of you.
...I think people might understand this or not, to clear up some misunderstandings? Also, this is by any means NOT CANON or not that definitive. I just wanted to get some points across. Pointing out more would involve a longer post. XD;

That SM/ FSN xover make more sense when you think about it. Archer and Saturn are both Counter Guardians. And would the Senshi try to kill them if they knew the truth?
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Interesting. But Servants can also be killed by Mages no? (It's just way harder).
Also what is MGI?
Can Servants be killed while dematerialized? By other Servants supposedly -- since Servants can see each other but not by the Mages (unless the Mages can sense them?).
Hrm. That might explain why the attacks by Shiro didn't work on Berserker. Well... partly. The other part may be that Berserker can't be hurt by a lot of stuff, mojo included. So the one hit that did hurt was a dual attack by Saber and Shiro.
Very nice explanation though. [Image: happy.gif]
Incase anyone else is interested, there's a group that's translating the game, and they say that they've translated the Fate arc, and likely to release a patch for the first arc some time this month...
Fate/Stay Night Translation Project Page[Image: Bansho.jpg]

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Hey Griever,
Would you mind uploading this somewhere to - say - that SuperFics place or Fanfiction.net?
I'm trying to compile a list of recs and I'd love to link to this. If not, I'll link to this thread but I gather it might be a bit annoying to read through this other stuff or to find FSD02 if it ever comes around.