Drunkard's Walk Forums

Recently on CoH, I've been discussing with Valles the difference between a character in his original fantasy project, and my character in a fan-story based off the extant bits in the same.
The discussion led to the conceit that his main characters are a Role-playing party and that one of my main characters was a PC created to replace another when its player was threatening to leave the group due to some drama or other. The discussion led to a question of different character-design philosophies. The character that was potentially leaving was played by a power-gamer who was used to maximizing one specific tactic to the detriment of others. The replacement was of a "breadth, not depth" philosophy.
The specific role in the party was for a social butterfly/native guide. That said, on to the examples, using GURPS 4e.
Zara, the Powergamer

Quote:Name: Zara
Race: Human
Attributes [75]
ST 10
DX 12 [40]
IQ 11 [20]
HT 12 [20]
HP 10
Will 10 [-5]
Per 11
FP 12
Basic Lift 20
Damage 1d-2/1d
Basic Speed 6
Basic Move 6
Ground Move 6
Water Move 1
Social Background
TL: 3 [0]
Cultural Familiarities: Pendant River (Native) [0].
Languages: Deltan (Native/Illiterate) [-3].
Advantages [60]
Allure (3) [15]
Appearance (Very Beautiful) [16]
Charisma (3) [5]
    includes: +2 from 'Extra Charisma'
Extra Charisma (2) [10]
Fashion Sense [5]
Magic Resistance (1) [2]
Voice [10]
Perks [3]
Skill Adaptation (Acrobatic Feints) [1]
Skill Adaptation (Acrobatic Kicks) [1]
Style Familiarity (Capoeira) [1]
Disadvantages [-70]
Chummy [-5]
Impulsiveness (12 or less) [-10]
Jealousy [-10]
Overconfidence (12 or less) [-5]
Post-Combat Shakes (12 or less) [-5]
Social Stigma (Valuable Property) [-10]
Status (-2) [-10]
Wealth (Poor) [-15]
Packages [0]
Capoeira (Martial Arts) [0]
Skills [82]
Acrobatic Stand (Acrobatics) Tech/A - def+1 10 [1]
Acrobatics DX/H - DX+3 15 [16]
Area Knowledge (Montan/Deltan Border towns) IQ/E - IQ+0 11 [1]
Axe Kick (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 11 [0]
Back Kick (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 11 [0]
Carousing HT/E - HT+0 12 [1]
Connoisseur (Dance) IQ/A - IQ+0 11 [1]
Current Affairs/TL3 (Deltan/Montan Border) IQ/E - IQ+0 11 [1]
Current Affairs/TL3 (High Culture) IQ/E - IQ+0 11 [1]
Dancing DX/A - DX+4 16 [4]
    includes: +3 from 'Allure'
Diplomacy IQ/H - IQ+2 13 [4]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Ear Clap (Karate) Tech/A - def+0 12 [0]
Escape DX/H - DX+0 12 [4]
Expert Skill (Bardic Lore) IQ/H - IQ+0 11 [4]
Fast-Talk IQ/A - IQ+1 12 [1]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Group Performance (Choreography) IQ/A - IQ+0 11 [1]
Hammer Fist (Karate) Tech/A - def+0 14 [0]
Head Butt (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 14 [0]
Jump Kick (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 11 [0]
Karate DX/H - DX+3 15 [16]
Kicking (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 13 [0]
Literature IQ/H - IQ+0 11 [4]
Makeup/TL3 IQ/E - IQ+3 14 [1]
    includes: +3 from 'Allure'
Musical Instrument (Percussion) IQ/H - IQ-1 10 [2]
Performance IQ/A - IQ+1 12 [1]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Poetry IQ/A - IQ+0 11 [2]
Public Speaking IQ/A - IQ+4 15 [1]
    includes: +3 from 'Charisma', +2 from 'Voice'
Savoir-Faire (Servant) IQ/E - IQ+0 11 [1]
Scissors Hold (Wrestling) Tech/H - def+0 13 [0]
Sex Appeal (Human) HT/A - HT+8 20 [0]
    includes: +6 from 'Appearance', +2 from 'Voice', +3 from 'Allure'
Singing HT/E - HT+6 18 [2]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice', +3 from 'Allure'
Spinning Kick (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 12 [0]
Sweeping Kick (Karate) Tech/H - def+0 12 [0]
Wrestling DX/A - DX+3 15 [12]
Stats [75] Ads [60] Disads [-70] Quirks [0] Skills [82] = Total [150]

And "Lammy" the breadth-of-field:

Quote:Name: Elames
Race: Human
Attributes [50]
ST 9 [-10]
DX 11 [20]
IQ 12 [40]
HT 11 [10]
HP 9
Will 10 [-10]
Per 12
FP 11
Basic Lift 16
Damage 1d-2/1d-1
Basic Speed 5.5
Basic Move 5
Ground Move 5
Water Move 1
Social Background
TL: 3 [0]
Cultural Familiarities: Pendant River (Native) [0].
Languages: Deltan (Native) [0]; Eastern (Accented) [4].
Advantages [41]
Appearance (Attractive) [4]
Bard (1) [5]
Charisma (1) [5]
Fit [5]
Musical Ability (1) [5]
Talker (1) [5]
Voice [10]
Perks [2]
Classic Features (Deltan Elames) [1]
Good with (Children) [1]
Disadvantages [-50]
Chummy [-5]
Low Self-Image [-10]
Social Stigma (Valuable Property) [-10]
Status (-2) [-10]
Wealth (Poor) [-15]
Quirks [-4]
Congenial [-1]
Humble [-1]
Fond of "Horses" [-1]
Likes a good love story. [-1]
Skills [109]
Area Knowledge (City near home plantation) IQ/E - IQ+1 13 [2]
Body Language (Human) Per/A - Per+0 12 [2]
Connoisseur (Literature) IQ/A - IQ+1 13 [4]
Connoisseur (Music) IQ/A - IQ+3 15 [4]
Dancing DX/A - DX-1 10 [1]
Diplomacy IQ/H - IQ+3 15 [4]
    includes: +1 from 'Talker', +2 from 'Voice'
Expert Skill (Bardic Lore) IQ/H - IQ+0 12 [4]
Housekeeping IQ/E - IQ+1 13 [2]
Impersonate (Mimicry (Speech)) Tech/A - def+3 14 [3]
Literature IQ/H - IQ+1 13 [4]
    includes: +1 from 'Bard'
Mimicry (Animal Sounds) IQ/H - IQ+2 14 [4]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Mimicry (Bird Calls) IQ/H - IQ+2 14 [4]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Mimicry (Speech) IQ/H - IQ+2 14 [4]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Musical Instrument ("Delta Banjo") IQ/H - IQ+6 18 [24]
    includes: +1 from 'Musical Ability'
Performance IQ/A - IQ+6 18 [16]
    includes: +2 from 'Voice'
Poetry IQ/A - IQ+2 14 [4]
    includes: +1 from 'Bard'
Professional Skill (Geisha/Elames) IQ/A - IQ+2 14 [8]
Public Speaking IQ/A - IQ+6 18 [0]
    includes: +1 from 'Charisma', +2 from 'Voice', +1 from 'Bard'
Savoir-Faire (High Society) IQ/E - IQ+2 14 [1]
    includes: +1 from 'Talker'
Savoir-Faire (Servant) IQ/E - IQ+3 15 [4]
    includes: +1 from 'Talker'
Singing HT/E - HT+7 18 [8]
    includes: +1 from 'Musical Ability', +2 from 'Voice', +1 from 'Bard'
Teaching IQ/A - IQ+0 12 [2]
Stats [50] Ads [41] Disads [-48] Quirks [-4] Skills [109] = Total [150]
Notes
This is "Lammy" in her native campaign.
During "Lost Little Lamb," her appearance jumps to at least Beautiful because of the higher standards of the folks in "Pendant River Chronicles." She loses the valuable property stigma, gains "Primitive (TL3)", etc.

''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

Zara: Stats [75] Ads [60] Disads [-70] Quirks [0] Skills [82] = Total [150]
75-70+60+82=5+142=147
Lammy: Stats [50] Ads [41] Disads [-48] Quirks [-4] Skills [109] = Total [150]
91+108-52=200-52=148
Well my first thought is Munchkin is only spending 147 points and therefore the illiteracy is pointless... or your doing a Very unmunchkin like thing of wasting perfectly good character points.  Meanwhile the balanced one is... actually spends more points.  Though I'm somwhat unfamilar with the specifics of the system... Zara could take 3 more perks or, with a quirk or 2 to explain why she can't read at all, take some other major bonus... instead I see:
Poetry IQ/A - IQ+0 11 [2], Literature IQ/H - IQ+0 11 [4]
Public Speaking IQ/A - IQ+4 15 [1] , Fast-Talk IQ/A - IQ+1 12 [1]
Dancing DX/A - DX+4 16 [4], Musical Instrument (Percussion) IQ/H - IQ-1 10 [2]
Which means Zara is basically, bard monk hybrid (which means this character does 3 things well, look hot, unarmed combat, and barding, so Zara is hardly min/maxed)... so why aren't the 3 rogue points spend on improving those or related skills?  I guess I can take the whole 'oral tradition' reasoning to explain the illiterate thing... but why not spend the last 3 skill points?
Come to think of it... Lammy is the min/maxed one... all she does is socialize... no combat skills at all.  So I'd start off by flat out disagreeing on which one is the power gamer in the first place.

*sheepish look* Would it help if I said it sounded better in my head when I thought it? ^^;

I did get part of my (non forum) discussion across however, in that Zara spent more points on advantages and stats for potential where Lammy spent more on the skills themselves. I essentially took a template from one of the GURPS books for a Bard and applied it to both characters for their "same role."

You may also note that Zara's best skill, Sex Appeal, is at default [that is, no points actually spent on it directly] and counts as a success of 20 or less (kinda) on 3d6.

I was thinking along the lines that Zara's player was going for "I can do it myself!" and Lammy's was saying, "I'm the social butterfly. If I'm in combat I did something WRONG."

However, I can go back and tweak away to try to get my point across better... maybe.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

Well lets look at Zara's disadvantages, I'm not sure what Chummy does exactly.so I'm going to declare it as a lack of respect for personal space, Social Stigma (Valuable Property) I'm going to read as slave/serf which explains the Status (-2) [-10]  and Wealth (Poor) [-15] disadvantages.  Which leaves Impulsiveness, Jealousy, Overconfidence, and Post-Combat Shakes.  Jelousy is something I think requires an explanation... of who and for what reasons... which gives you an easy lead in to Quirks.  The others feed off that.  PCS needs to be either from "I could've died there" panic, once she has time to think or it could mean she is burning off adrenalin as she throws herself into combat and has issues stopping.  Judging by the major self control issues that Impulsiveness inflicts on her, I'm saying its the latter.
So basically, we have a major piece of eye candy that works as a musician... with a fairly heavy focus on story telling.  Hotness plus a social nobody explains the unarmed combat skills... you don't always get a stick to beat them off with.  She is also a firebrand bordering berserker once things go pear shaped.  Which brings up another issue with Zara... why she doesn't have a single combat Advantage and she has 4 ranks in Dancing, yet for some inexplicable reason Lammy has only 1 rank in dancing and no combat skills what-so-ever and has a Advantage of being in good enough shape to deserve a Advantage of being Fit... so what I see here is that a life of Dancing Professionally and Martial Arts training is less likely to keep you in shape then dealing with small children.

Quote: Necratoid wrote:

---

so what I see here is that a life of Dancing Professionally and Martial Arts training is less likely to keep you in shape then dealing with small children.

Appearantly, you don't have to keep up with several children on a regular basis. 8P
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin

I realize how much of a handful small children can be, I know they do run you ragged if given half a chance... but unless we are talking quickling toddlers
here, I can't see it not applying to someone with Zara's vital statistics.

In this case, "Fit" essentially means that Lammy's got slightly better cardiovascular health than her given HT stat would normally indicate. The
mechanic of the advantage effectively lets Lammy make bare rolls versus the stat as if it were 1 higher than it is, so quantitatively, on a short term basis,
versus say poison, unconsciousness, or death rolls, Lammy and Zara are equal. But. Zara can actually last longer in an endurance sense.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

*clonks head on desk* Wouldn't have a clue, myself. Me and GURPS have a mutual restraining order in effect. Have you considered recasting it in a more
useful system, like Champions or Mutants & Masterminds?
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.