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Assumptions:

1. Magic use is some kind of energy or force (in the scientific sense) manipulation ability, through means as yet unexplained

2. Expressing magic in humans requires certain genetic traits, and takes the forms of various rare talents as well as casting

3. While some talents may be located or modified by other sites, the primary cluster of magic genes is in that part of the X chromosome that is missing on the Y

Conclusions:

A. Women are more likely to have some kind of magic talent, since they have two X chromosomes

B. Men who do have magic, are more likely to have strong magic because they don't have a second X to interfere

C. Women are more likely to have multiple talents, because they have an X from each parent

Question:

Is an all-traits-positive XX combination significantly better than the same combination in XY? I don't know enough genetics to be sure, but it seems like having the same information twice over shouldn't make a difference, or not much of one.

Thoughts?

- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

Having an extra chromosome tends to be bad. See Down Syndrome for example.

Then again not everyone with multiple chromosones has that syndrome, just like not everybody with XX is female. (Look up the contortions the Olympic committee went through to define gender. It is not easy, and after ~40 years of trying they gave up. See http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html for example. Hence why all the defense of marriage laws are silly, but that should go into politics.)
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Hmmm, this seems like the sort of thing Fox would be good at, I remember him talking about something like this once in City of Heroes.

I'd say a seeming randomly repeating gene sequence across.the preexisting chromosomes... the placement effects the powers available, gene sequences can be inactive... activation can be played around with and radiation, or magical energy saturation can alter things to active.  This explaination means that 'junk' sequences aren't really junk..  That way its a retro-viral effect and not something so utterly likely to cause your mages to have major alterations and issues.  Unless your planning on having specific health or physical mutational issues as a common thing among mages.  In short, enviromentally activated 'junk' DNA sequences mean far less technobabble.  Simply not being exposed to trigger factors means its all dormant.... unless you have major backstory things this is effected by.

CattyNebulart: Please don't drop idiot political points outside the forum sector devoted to this.

No no, just a random idea that popped into my head for why there might be gender-specific variations in magical ability. I left out a major assumption - that the key sequence to activate magical ability is recessive. Doesn't affect any of the comments above, really, but it's only vaguely implied by the bits about possibly having the second X mess it up in female casters.

As for down syndrome, mongolism, and other variations of the like, I'm not talking about extra chromosomes at any point, just getting the same or nearly-same magic group from both sides - like two parents with blond hair producing blond kids.

As for the politics... POOF! I turn all established parties' leaders into frogs with my magic genes!

- CD, was trying for toads but the dry skin just wouldn't stick
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

If you're positing that magic has a genetic basis, then you're also stating that there are 'organs' or at least 'chemicals' in the body that allow the manipulation of magical energy.
There's a significant importance here:
If there is a 'magic organ' created by having this genetic sequence, then having two copies of that sequence is going to result in a significant change from the single set version - the difference between the male and female body comes down entirely to that minor change in genetic material (although most of the physical changes are due to differences in horomones).  Having two copies of the sequence describing how to produce 'organ X' is almost certainly going to result in a completely different organ - it may still perform the normal functions, but it may be either damaged or else super-effective, but either way there's going to be a significant difference.  This is actually the less likely case, though.
The more likely case is that there is a 'magic hormone' or 'magic chemical' or both, which results in the production/maintenance of whatever physical/mental structures allow the use of magic.  In this case, having two copies is going to significantly increase the amount of that chemical/hormone present in the body.  Again, this will result in a significant change (although if it's more of an off/on function, this change may not be directly apparent).
As for men being significantly more powerful than women because of not having an X without that sequence, that's pretty much false.  What you may have is a case where the X chromosome NORMALLY has a sequence that either suppresses or counteracts the effects of the Magic X, in which case a female with a Magic X and an Anti-magic X chromosome would be at a power disadvantage.  But otherwise, there would be no distinguishable difference between male and female powers (except in the case of the Female with two magic Xs).
"Not this again!" Minerva said. "Albus, it was You-Know-Who, not you, who marked Harry as his equal. There is no possible way that the prophecy could be talking about you!" - Harry Potter and the Method of Rationality, Chapter 84

Sounds like you're doing a spot of world-building. Let's look at this backwards for a second - what's the end result you're shooting for?
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

A centuries-long eugenic program resulting in a mythical being, the culmination of powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal Man: the Kumquat Haagen-Dasz!

your conclusions are somewhat faulty (unless magic is involved)...

genetic traits are not expressed as a "mixing of vial A and vial B and the stronger prevails, or if they're both strong, it's stronger still!"... it's more of a "vial A looks good, we'll use it" kind of deal. look at any sex-linked genetic trait for examples... but the gist is:

if "magic" is x-linked dominant, then: any child of a female mage has a 50% chance of inheriting the trait (and being a mage), all female children of a male mage will have the trait and no male children of a male mage will have the trait

if "magic" is x-linked recessive, then: all children of a male mage and a female "mage carrier" will have a 50% chance of being a mage and 50% chance of being a carrier, all children of a male mage and a female mage will be a mage; all female children of a female mage and a male non-mage will be carriers while all male children will be mages; female children of a female carrier and a male non-mage will have a 50% chance of being a carrier while male children will have a 50% chance of being a mage. there are no male carriers (since "magic" on the part of the X that is not duplicated by the Y, it will always manifest in males)

in any case, magical "strength" is no more determined by gender than degree of color blindness... it's a case of which traits are expressed and how
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

See, that's why I wanted someone to check me, it's been about 20 years since my junior high life science unit, and they didn't actually cover human genetics in HS Earth Science. Ah well, it was just an idea.

- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

Really, for X-linked traits, all we can say is that a male with the gene has the trait and a male without the gene doesn't. The situation for the females could be one of a number of things. It could be a matter of strict dominance or strict recessiveness, as Zojojo explained. It could be a partial dominance situation, where a female with one copy of the gene is not as "powerful" magically as a female with two copies of the gene, or it could be a codominance situation where a female with two different kinds of magic genes gets two different kinds of magic. Or, because of the fact that this is carried on the X chromosome, it could do something like calico cats, where (depending on how exactly the magic is generated) heterozygous women could have unpredictable amounts of magic.
Working with codominance, conclusions A and C work perfectly, and B depends on the exact mechanism of magic.

3. While some talents may be located or modified by other sites, the primary cluster of magic genes is in that part of the X chromosome that is missing on the Y

A. Women are more likely to have some kind of magic talent, since they have two X chromosomes

A does not follow given 3.

If it is recessive, Men are much more likely to have the gene expressed.

It would actually be certain for the male child of a female carrier to have it.

Relevant link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ed_Recessive_Inheritance

Basically what I was figuring was that each talent has its own cluster, so it works out like this:

spellcasting, or individual talents:

magic+Y (nothing) = MAGIC

carrier+Y = magic

junk+Y = junk

magic+magic = MAGIC

magic+carrier = magic

carrier+carrier = magic

magic+junk = carrier

carrier+junk = junk

junk+junk = junk

so a magical male is 1/3 very powerful, but magical females only 1/6. I'm confusing myself about the talent frequency, though.

I think this is what zojojojo was saying doesn't happen, but each of these yesses and noes is supposed to be a subgroup, not a single gene that's either present or not.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

Work harder! All possible XX combinations beside the XY equivalent, so probabiliteis can be properly figured.

P= Positive

C= Carrier

N= Negative

Y= not present

PP=P* PY=P*

PP=P* PY=P*

PC=P PY=P*

CP=P CY=C

PN=C PY=P*

NP=C NY=N

CC=P CY=C

CC=P CY=C

CN=N CY=C

NC=N NY=N

NN=N NY=N

NN=N NY=N

XX = P* 2/12

XX = P 6/12 (including P*)

XX = C 2/12

XX = N 4/12

XY = P* 4/12

XY = C 4/12

XY = N 4/12

There, that shows what I was intending. Women 50% magical to men's 33%, but those one in three men are stronger than 2/3 of the magical females. Add extra groups of NN as needed to achieve the desired rarity of magical expression.

- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

Ah, so its dominant is what you are describing.

An interesting societal side effect of this is that strong women would be extremely attractive to people seeking to ensure powerful children, since there children will be more likely to have the gift.

A strongly gifted man on the other hand would be a crap shoot, as his male children would not inherit his gifts. His *daughters* on the other hand would be certain to. So Female children of may actually end up more desirable than otherwise.

What would the chart be if it was recessive, then?

Anyway, given this distorbution, the thing that springs to mind most readily is randomly checking magic aptitude for non-caster characters in a game (If your character's primary skills include casting, congratulations! your magic gene is PP or PY! If not, roll to see if you might have some hidden talent for it) probably with a d20 and filling the extra eight slots with Not Present. Of course, it doesn't do much good if you get a Carrier result, well, not unless your setting has mad wizards or Mr. Sinister playing silly buggers with the genes of hapless captured heroes. And how often does that happen?

- CD, As for social pressures making the rare powerful female caster morer valuable... well, that's how you get a matriarchal magical empire on the moon for the princess to hail from
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

If you really want to complicate things, you could say there are epigenetic components or environmental stressors (think something like allergies) that can take a carrier and make them a practitioner.
And if you want to make things interesting as well as complicated (and a little recursive) some of those stressors could be exposure to magic
-Terry
-----
"so listen up boy, or pornography starring your mother will be the second worst thing to happen to you today"
TF2: Spy

Or if you wanted to be a complete ass to your PCs, have an older sorceress run out of magical ability... and research ends up showing that she's literally burning eggs to cast.

Which leads almost directly into some terrifying caster-harvesting horror anime wherein young girls are being brought up for the sole reason of harvesting their eggs..
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Through tentacles and >deleted<

gah. my brain is now firmly lodged in teh gutter
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

what it comes down to is this:

(X - magic gene; x - non-magic gene; Y - duh)

XX + XY = XX, XY, XX, XY

Xx + XY = XX, Xx, XY, xY

XX + xY = Xx, Xx, XY, XY

xx + XY = Xx, Xx, xY, xY

xx + xY = xx, xx, xY, xY

n(XX) = 3/20 = .15

n(Xx) = 5/20 = .25

n(xx) = 2/20 = .10

n(XY) = 5/20 = .25

n(xY) = 5/20 = .25

now you get to figure out if you want your magic to be dominant or recessive or some kind of co-dominant thing (the chances of male magic users don't change... it's the odds for the girls that change)
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.

Well, that assumes that all of those pairings have the same probability of happening.  The magic-carrying allele may be more or less prevalent than 50%, and it may be that magical men disproportionately tend to seek highly magical or non-magical partners, depending on cultural forces.

Wiredgeek Wrote:Or if you wanted to be a complete ass to your PCs, have an older sorceress run out of magical ability... and research ends up showing that she's literally burning eggs to cast.

Which leads almost directly into some terrifying caster-harvesting horror anime wherein young girls are being brought up for the sole reason of harvesting their eggs..

Hmmm... NOPE!

Just... no. Even for someone who says "But think of the childen who could be saved from hunger/genetic disorders/etc by genetic foods/embryonic stem cell research/etc. WHY AREN'T YOU THINKING OF THE CHILDREN!?" just to stir up shit, that's going too far. And please, if you must feed the troll do it in Politics, where those uninterested in serious (or vitriolic) discussion of such topics can ignore it

- CD, like me. Obvious troll is a troll! Don't feed the troll.
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows

Ran across this, and its rather relevant.

http://www.medicaldaily.c...x-chromosome-biology.htm

Evidently the Y-chromosome actually has very few genes on it. It is down to only 19!

That also explains why things like color-blindness and the like are exceedingly more common in men despite being actually recessive.

Yeah, apparently the Y chromosome is actually shrinking. Eventually it'll just be SRY floating off by its lonesome. Except in XX males of course, but they're always sterile; there's no chance of them passing on their "male X".

yes, my table was more a table of possibilities and doesn't take into account things like mate selection and how "magic" affects reproduction and if it makes certain combinations more likely...
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.