Drunkard's Walk Forums

Okay, would somebody check and see if there was a memo sent out that informed the world that fast food from a drive-thru no longer means "fast" or it
means "would you please pull up to the front and park, sir?"

I am SICK AND TIRED of that and I have determined that it is MY policy to tell any drive thru monkey that asks me to do that "No thanks, I'll just
stay here. Thanks!"

So... Long day spent doing yardwork in the fall chill for Dad. Sit my aching bones in the car, head home. Notice the local Braums store, and think to myself,
"Say, been a long time since I indulged in a milkshake, why not?"

Earlier in the day, I had gotten a small burger from another franchise (I was on the road a lot today) and was told by them to move to the outside lane, where
they let FOUR cars get their food before they finally got to me. I wasn't aware that "pull to the outside lane" meant the same thing as
"park at the front of the store so we can get to you when we get to you." If I HAD known that's what they meant, I'd have told them my usual,
"No thanks, I'm staying here."

I'm beginning to think some asshole in corporate middle management in these companies thought it would be a grand idea to force more "efficiency"
out of their drive-thrus by having some kind of timing or "quota" or something that has to occur for each customer. But I've actually been
FORGOTTEN and had to walk back into the store on more than one occasion to remind them that they have my money and could I PLEASE have my food in rightful
exchange for it? I don't play by the "rules" of this game anymore. If you can't get my food to me in a timely fashion, that's on YOU, not
on me! Especially when I'm only ordering for myself!

So I pull in, order my milkshake. Nobody in the lane but me. Looks like a slow day. I get up to the window, pay my money and THEN she tells me to pull forward
to the front of the store!

I look behind me again. Nope! Nobody in the lane behind me! After my earlier experience and my general attitude about the practice in general, I do my standard
polite, "No thanks, I'm staying here..." With an added comment, "... especially since there's no one behind me."

The dumbstruck look follows, followed by her starting to tell me that they are "timed" or some such bullshit. NOW I'm getting annoyed and
snapped, "Look! I. Don't. CARE!"

About half a minute later, she hands me the cup that supposedly has my milkshake in it, and I start to drive off.

I can't even get my straw into it. In effect, she gave me a cup of ice cream, not a milkshake.

Normally I'm not "that guy". I try hard to give people the benefit of the doubt. I work customer service, I KNOW how bad it can be. But... no.
This is unacceptable.

I turned around, got out of the car, and walked into the main resturant, slammed the cup down on the counter in front of who I presume was the manager and
started reading them the riot act. Starting with "If I'd WANTED a cup of ICE CREAM, I would have ASKED for ICE CREAM. But that's NOT what I
ordered! I order a MILKSHAKE, now listen to me... !! "

I went up one side of that girl and her manager and back down the other. I got my milkshake done RIGHT, and MY way. I could have gotten a refund, but all I
wanted was the damn product I had paid for and once I'd vented, that's all I cared about. I also gave them HELL for the way I was treated.

So today I was "that guy". Oh BOY was I that guy. I usually feel a bit of a heel when I get angry like this. But I think this time I was entirely in
the right and justified. I never cursed. I didn't threaten. But I let them know in no uncertain terms that they can't just do that sort of thing and
get away with it.

(Deep breath) Okay. I'm good. Just needed to vent a bit.

So. Was I a justified angry consumer or just an asshole? Or a little of both? (I'll own up to "both" actually. )

both, but the fast food places, by and large, are getting so goddamn concerned with bullshit metrics that customer service is a joke.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Could have been worse. At least you weren't trying to get breakfast past 10. (I want -breakfast-!)
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

You are both. Yes, the service was crappy (and I assume that bizarre "drive up front" thing is a US thing, I've never seen it here). No, there
was no call to yell at some person making minimum wage who was only doing what they had to do to avoid being fired from their shitty job.

I did kind of feel shitty about it later, but... errgh... It's a sore spot with me that's been building and something just hit that ONE NERVE...

Eh, usually when that happens it means that the ingredients for whatever you want werent 'up' and ready, so they have to put them in fresh. Especially
if you got a big order. I sometimes stop on the way home from work to pick up breakfast for the family.

Usually they make you wait while they put it in the fryer or whatever, and the result you get it piping hot and fresh. A LOT of fast food is really tasty in
this state.

Maybe they had turned off their milkshake machine?

Never had them actually forget me, so ymmv.

Turned off their milkshake machine? Hardly. Milkshakes, ice cream, dairy products - this is what Braums is known for. That'd be like... oh... McDonalds
with their grill off!

That and the fact that I was the only car in line! There was no one else there! Yet it was 4:30 in the afternoon! And, all I was asking for was a single item
of something they specialize in! So... that's why I was surprised at being asked to drive forward. And why it PISSED ME OFF that the server decided to
keep to her METRICS and give me a cup of ice cream - no milk in it either - rather than take the extra time to do the damn thing right. I know what she was
thinking! "Oh just get OUT of here, jerk! You'll drive off and not think it's worth it to drive back and give me shit about it and I get to stick
to my metrics."

WRONG!!! ENNNT! But thank you for playing! As a consolation prize, here's our copy of "Customer Service for Dummies!"

No... I think WG has it pegged. Goddamn metrics invading the fast food business. That's why, when I went in there to complain, I went to the manager. And I
didn't want to just complain about the person at the window who thought they could get away with making me a substandard product in order to meet their
metrics. It's their policy I harangued the manager about. That their policy was making a mockery of
quality service.

I will continue to not play their metrics game. And if I get substandard service or products because of it, I'm going to complain about it. It's the
only way to make them change. Maybe I'll try and be a little bit more like my normal, calm demeanor when doing so. But I'll still do it.

Jeez! I just realized why this seems so familiar! I feel like I'm in a Denis Leary sketch! "COFFEE flavored COFFEE!"

Braum's has drive-up now? Been a while since I've been to one. IIRC Jim Varney was still doing ads for them last time I'd been...
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

Ayiekie Wrote:You are both. Yes, the service was crappy (and I assume that bizarre "drive up front" thing is a US thing, I've never seen it here).

You haven't been to the second-closest McDonald's to where you live, then. (Yet another reason why I very rarely patronize Mickey-D's.)

Ayiekie Wrote:No, there was no call to yell at some person making minimum wage who was only doing what they had to do to avoid being fired from their shitty job.

I agree about the "yelling" part, but the rest raises an interesting question: Is it a good thing to tolerate substandard service if doing so lets ther person providing the substandard service keep his job? If you do, then the person gets to keep working, but has no incentive to improve. If you don't, the person has incentive to improve, but might not keep working...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

I fully support your ideas, and I shall try to remember to enact them in the future =D
There is no coincidence, only necessity....
- Clow Reed

About the only contribution I can make to this is that the yelling was probably a bad move.

There's a certain short term satisfaction in it, but as an employee in a store where managerial BS has alienated more than one customer and I've ended up on the receiving end, I can give an interesting perspective here.

- Yelling doesn't only make you out to be an asshole; it invalidates your entire argument. It's like the old saying about the first person in an internet argument to call the other a Nazi automatically loses. No matter how good your argument actually -is-, unless the person there has the patience of a saint, they won't hear anything said above that decibel level. You're just some raving lunatic that gets upset about a milkshake.

- The quiet ones are -scary-. If you keep an even tone of voice, maybe let a little tiny bit of anger creep into your tone, then the person there will still regard you as a logical, reasonable human being. They want to PREVENT you from exploding, because all that does is add more stress to their day. Thus, if you don't explode, they're more likely to be accommodating. Sure, it may not help your service be improved on average, but the nastier you are to a person there, the more likely they are to fall into the age-old "I don't get paid enough to deal with this bullshit" mood, at which point, they may not go out of their way to help you, and in fact stick to management dictated practices that they themselves think are stupid just to spite you. The minute you get the line "let me call a manager over here", that means that they're going to stonewall you so they can get to customers less likely to act like preschoolers that aren't getting chocolate before supper.

As someone that works at a place where, to rent movies, you're managerially required to ask for their ID if they use their rental card to make sure the card isn't stolen(every single time), I know all about stupid practices that they'd prefer not to deal with. But the less of a towering asshole you are to them, the more likely you'll be perceived as a rational human being worthy of sympathy and maybe a little extra effort to retain your patronage of their restaraunt.
---
"Oh, silver blade, forged in the depths of the beyond. Heed my summons and purge those who stand in my way. Lay
waste."

Quote: robkelk wrote:

---

Quote: Ayiekie wrote:

---

You are both. Yes, the service was crappy (and I assume that bizarre "drive up front" thing is a US thing, I've never seen it here).

You haven't been to the second-closest McDonald's to where you live, then. (Yet another reason why I very rarely patronize
Mickey-D's.)

Well, there you go. Never heard of it before, but it seems odd. Kind of defeats the point of "fast food", wouldn't you think?

Quote:

Quote: Ayiekie wrote:

---

No, there was no call to yell at some person making minimum wage who was only doing what they had to do to avoid being fired from their shitty job.

I agree about the "yelling" part, but the rest raises an interesting question: Is it a good thing to tolerate substandard service if
doing so lets ther person providing the substandard service keep his job? If you do, then the person gets to keep working, but has no incentive to improve.
If you don't, the person has incentive to improve, but might not keep working...

You are overlooking the point that the poor guy or gal working the drive-through has absolutely no control over this. They in fact were providing the best
service they could by rushing the milkshake. They do not have the authority to override managerial imperatives for the satisfaction of the customer, and may in
fact be fired if they do. See, for instance, that recent publicised example about the Tim Horton's employee who got fired for giving someone's four
year old a $0.13 Timbit to stop their crying. While that person was reinstated on a wave of national indignation, the vast majority of fast food employees will
not be so lucky. So no, it wasn't their fault, and they didn't deserve to be yelled at. The manager is something else again - fielding customer
complaints is part of their job.

Better to vote with your wallet than your voice. Send a polite letter to the manager (most places will have the address listed on the receipt) that you will no
longer be going to that stopre because of poor service. Don't indicate who it was or when, just say "poor service", maybe mention specifically
"being told to sit up front instead of being allowed to wait in the drive in lane" if that's your particular beef.

This way, no one gets fired for being a bad employee but hopefully the management invest more time in training employees for good customer service and/or
adjusting their instructions to encourage better customer service.

-----------------

Epsilon

I'm gonna second OpMegs on the yelling bit.
I mean, we all know it's rude to shout. What's less obvious is that it's not instrumentally rational either, in terms of getting your point across. I've not done retail or service as such, but in my peon job in radio, I often effectively worked as such at on-site events...and had the experience of fielding quite a few outside calls at my desk as well.
Someone starts yelling at you, you get annoyed in return, you're just like, enh, deal with the idiot, smile and nod, whatever, that guy's such a bitch. Doesn't do much.
I guess it can actually freak out the person you run off on, but that's not exactly better either. I've tried - and managed, I think - to be calm when makin' a complaint ever since one particular incident at an airport. I lost my temper with this guy at the check-in desk. And then he stopped, his eyes going really wide behind his glasses, and in this soft quivering tone said: "...you don't have to shout."
I swear, that guy could give a puppy dog a run for its money. But it did make me feel absolutely awful, so I apologised at once. =P
True, you need to insist on your rights. There's a lot of customers that insist on being treated like kings, that's true, but it's equally true there's a whole lot of companies that'll treat regular customers like crap. I find that calm but firm works well - certainly did just a couple weeks ago when I had to butt heads with a local CD store.
Because we can't all be this guy (linked news article) 
(Short version:- British Airways tried to bump a couple of 14-year-old girls off a flight - after they'd checked in. On their way home, it should be stressed. They didn't knock the adult that was travelling with 'em off the plane, but seriously, he couldn't abandon them. The airline didn't offer much compensation - initially just £20 each in vouchers from the airline shop. So you have a very angry father... who was indeed an Economy Class passenger at the time, but when he's not on vacation, the man's a CEO... =P)  
  
-- Acyl

I find that when I'm really pissed, just being brutally honest with them is the bet. Don't yell, but if you're really pissed off, don't hide
it. Yelling gets dismissed. A guy who, registers his complaint in a very normal voice level while *clearly* being absolutely furious sends them into a panicked
rush to make things better.

Similarly, I had occasion to get really worked up against Disney Home Entertainment [Their Digital copies of their movies are ANNOYING to install, and I'd had trouble just putting the normal DVD in my DVD drive and playing it...]. However, THEIR customer service folks are top-notch, they got me calmed down lickety split. MAy have helped that, Y'know, it just feels WRONG to scream at someone who sounds so perky and NOT bored at their job...

And yes, calmly telling them that you're miffed DOES get them buzzing....
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

At Disney they literally will not hire you unless you walk into the interview room smiling and give them a firm handshake.

----------------

Epsilon

You know, they tried doing a similar sounding numeric evaluation thing where I work once. Then they stopped.

I suspect they discovered some of the same things about it that I learned.

-The way of doing things that gives the best score actually causes it to take *longer* to help customers.

-The way of doing things that gives the best score makes giving customers items that haven't been rung up far more likely.

-Morgan, could never work at Disney, with her Yuki Nagato-like expression and tone. '.'

I've been avoiding this topic, because I'm a swing manager (hourly shift manager) at a major fast food chain, and so far this topic has done nothing
but piss me off.

If you've never worked fast food, or if it's been so long that you've forgotten, then perhaps you don't understand the pressures we're
under. Yes, there are metrics involved. I don't work for Braums, but for another fast food chain that has been mentioned in this thread. Every year, and
it seems like every month, our parent company further complicates our menu. But our service goals remain the same, as in X minutes X seconds per customer.
When we cannot meet those goals, whether due to staffing issues or problems with service time vs. food waste, then we have to listen to peoples' bitching
up one side and down the other. We are only human, folks, and we do the absolute best that we can. The 'metrics' that have been complained about are
handed down from on high, and it's only at the peril of our jobs that we can ignore them.

People who go through the drive-thru have entitlement issues. You sit there in your car and think that you're so damned important, and if your order
isn't ready *right* *now*, then all you can do is bitch. Over the years that I've worked fast food, I've figured out what you car-bound folks
want: You want to pull through our parking lot, have your food ready for you without even telling us what you want, and we'll throw the bag to you as you
drive by at 30 mph. Payment? No, we don't get any payment. And forgive me, but this is *BULLSHIT*. If you truly think that you're that important,
well, then go cook for yourself. We don't want you, and there are thirty other customers right behind you who aren't such assholes.

Based upon survey data, my fast food company satisfies 76% of it's customers *every* *day*. I would like to see any other service industry match that,
with the speed and accuracy we maintain.

-Michael Wolff, who's not trying to start a fight, but just trying to present the other side of the story.Falling out of aeroplanes and hiding out in holes

Waiting for the sunset to come, people going home

Jump out from behind them and shoot them in the head

Now everybody dancing the dance of the dead

I just happened to be 'that girl' that was in the window for a year and a half. I worked at McD's in the drive thru. And I had those metric times
to make, those people to get through the drive through. We did ask people to pull forward, even if there wasn't anyone behind them because the clock stops
when they pull past the window. When they didn't want to do that, I had everything thrown at me from cuss words to drink carriers to a cup of hot coffee
that left my chest scalded for a week.

Now, I agree that the fact that they gave you the wrong item shouldn't have happened. And the person working the window should not have been rude. But,
honestly, you going inside to yell at the manager made you seem a whole lot worse. And a jerk to boot.

Well, I assume you're not speaking directly to me, but in general to your own frustration, there. That's fine. Believe me, I get it. I work as a phone
monkey (tech support/billing), I know from customer service.

Here's the deal though. I'm not one of these people you're talking about. When I go through a drive-thru, believe me, I'm not expecting what
you're describing. I'm not expecting -instant- service. Just convenient service. I just want my order done right. I don't really mind if it takes a
little extra time. In fact, since I almost always have a book or something with me to read, I'll skim a few pages while I'm waiting in line. Better
yet, I get to listen to what I want to listen to on my own radio or CD player while I'm waiting. I like it that way much better, really. I just want the
convenience of sitting in my comfotable car seat and getting my food that way rather than going inside the store. There are days I know it took longer to go
through the outside line than the inside line. And I'm FINE with that. 99% of the time, I'm not in a hurry. If I am, there are specific chains I know I
can expect faster service at. I know their food won't be as good, but that's the trade off you expect.

What I can not abide is my order being done wrong or substandard.

And I will not agree to "please pull forward". On at least three different occasions, I have been left out there and forgotten about! And I
hadn't even ordered something weird, off the menu, obscure or hard to make quickly. No, it was just the regular burger, fries and drink. And only ordering
for myself and no one else in the car.

So no. Not playing that game. I just ignore the request when it comes up.

To me, what it proves over and over again - and you all have confirmed it for me - is that the metrics have been made more important than the customer
experience. As far as I'm concerned, if the company is willing to fire employees for choosing the customer over the metrics, then that company is no longer
in the customer service industry and they don't deserve my business.

As to being a jerk? I think I said at the start I owned up to that in this one instance. That horse is well and truly deceased. And I think you can stop
beating me over the head about it now.

Quote:Based upon survey data, my fast food company satisfies 76% of it's customers *every* *day*. I would like to see any other service industry match that, with the speed and accuracy we maintain.

If any group in our office ever drops below 95% client satisfaction, upper management comes down on us. Hard. Mind you, we get paid a living wage.

Wolff, your rant sounds to me like you subconsciously want a different job...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

Try the postal service at 92% http://www.usps.com/commu...lnews/oh/oh_2007_1120.htm

as middle management, Wolff, you have absolutely no effect on what metrics are handed down from on high. However, what you're failing to realize is - the
customer does not (and has no reason to) care in the slightest about your metrics, which have NO RELATIONSHIP with actual customer happiness..

I find the kowtowing to TEH HOLY METRIC and the backbiting here highly entertaining. Logan should not have been asked to 'pull forward', this situation
is fucked. Logan was an ass, but you know something?

They started it.
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Don't yell.

Force. Voice inflection and projection can give you all the benefit of yelling, without the volume or the perception that you are an unreasonable, potentially
dangerous, whack-a-loon.

The second, and I consider most important rule is the fair application of the above. The physical force continum written into the verbal aspect. The person
at the window is often just the cypher to the larger problem of customer service. If they cannot grant you satisfaction, thank them for their time and move
up. They are not paid to deal with your often reasonable anger at anything more than a superficial level, so it is unfair to them to stand as the anvil to the
hammer of your displeasure.

Move up the chain. If necessary, make it a temporary hobby. Writing scathing, entertaining letters to customer service (cc'd the Better Business Bureau
and similar ogranizations or media outlets) is far, far, for gratifying than yelling at some clerk who has little or no control over the situation. It is
often fun to share these with the first contact people, who are likely sharing many of the same frustrations you are with those beyond their pay scale.

They will not like you if you yell at them and they certainly will not respect you.

Using proper application of verbal force, they still may not like you, but properly done, they are much more likely to respect you.

The yelling was wrong. You should have wrote straight to the company about the situation about that drive-thru.

If they start getting letters about the situation, the main company will then look hard at that branch.

I stopped using the Taco Bell drive-thru after they left me waiting there for half an hour(I left. I was the only customer).
--------------------
Tom Mathews aka Disruptor