+- Drunkard's Walk Forums (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums)
+-- Forum: The Drunkard's Walk (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=21)
+--- Forum: Drunkard's Walk II: Robot's Rules of Order (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Thread: Chapter 14, Teaser #1 (/showthread.php?tid=1189)
Pages:
1
2
Chapter 14, Teaser #1 - Bob Schroeck - 10-22-2003
Okay, a little forward note before we get to the teaser. First, I wanted to repeat what I said a while back, which is that about half of the Chapter 13 teasers actually ended up being Chapter 14 teasers when I split the chapter.
Second, this is the first time I've kind of repeated a teaser. Material in this teaser overlaps one that I posted back in December 2002. One of the reasons I'm doing this is to show you how the material evolves over time. Just in case you're interested in the mechanical side of the process.
Enjoy.
-- Bob
(Edit: Corrected the date of the original teaser.)
-------------------
"I need a boomer," I said to Ohara as I leaned causally againsthis open door."What?" He stared at me from behind his desk."I need a boomer," I repeated. "Don't worry, I'll disable itsweapons systems before I start working with it."Several moments passed while he digested this. "Do I even wantto know *why*?" he finally asked."No."He pursed his lips and looked at me over his glasses for a fewmore seconds. "All right," he said. "I'll have one sent to yourshop immediately.""Thanks!" I said brightly, and walked off loudly singing someimprovised lyrics to the tune of that old folk standard "If I HadA Hammer": ""Assorted IDEC drones prairie-dogged over their cube walls to seewho was making the ungodly racket and gave me all manner of uglylooks as I passed. I am *so* not typical Japanese office workermaterial.Ohara's promise of immediate delivery was no exaggeration. Illyashowed up at my door at almost the same moment I did, accompaniedby one of the maintenance guys, who was wheeling along aseriously large crate on a handtruck. I stood at the door to myshop and watched as they came to a halt a couple of meters away."Ordered a boomer you did?" Illya asked with a grin.When I saw the model number stenciled on the side of the plasteel box, I gave him an incredulous Look. "You keep combat boomers *on-site*?" I knew I'd getting a combat boomer, but I'd thought they'd at least have been storing them in a warehouse somewhere else in the city. Despite what Ohara had said, I'd expected it get delivered the next morning at the very earliest.Illya shrugged in a manner that seemed far too Gallic for hisRussian blood. "One or two we have left over from, um, earlierphase of studies.""Yeah, right." I studied the box for a moment, then opened thedoor and stood aside. "All right, bring it in and put it next tothe nanofac."They wheeled it in and laid the crate on its side. As themaintenance guy trundled back out into the hallway, Illyasolemnly presented me with a small crowbar then said, "Do not amistake be making with this boomer, 'Craig'."I took the crowbar and experimentally fitted it between crate andtop. "Don't worry, I'll be careful."He looked at me, a very serious expression on his face, forseveral seconds before saying, "Better that you be. We manyothers modified to make less lethal, but this one we have not."He laid one ham-sized hand over my fist and most of the crowbar."It is great trust we give you now, knowing even that you hateus. No, deny it not," he added as I started to protest. "Withpoorly-veiled contempt you treat us, and we see it, we know. Butgood reason you have." He shrugged. "Badly have we treatedyou. So we understand, we forgive. And we trust that goodenough man you are that revenge you will not take -- at least notwith boomer."I said nothing for a long moment, staring only at the huge handon top of my own. Then I looked up and into his eyes, andnodded. "Thank you," I said, feeling faintly ashamed.He released my hand and shrugged again. "Is nothing. Besides, aprick Tony is, and smacking down needs. Skilled at that you are,and is fun to watch." He smiled again, briefly. "Just be surethat what you are doing will not the innocent people here harm.""I'll be sure," I murmured."Well then," he shifted gears into an expansive bonhomie, andclapped me on the back, staggering me for a moment. "Enjoy yourevening and your new friend.""Yeah," I said, and watched him turn and march out.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Re: Chapter 14 Teaser, #1 - Ace Dreamer - 10-22-2003
So, what responsibilities do you have to a boomer who you emancipate, particularly a combat boomer?
And, by extension, what responsibilities do you have towards a whole city (or planet) full of boomers that you have just freed?
Just curious...
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
Re: Chapter 14 Teaser, #1 - Bob Schroeck - 10-23-2003
Depends on whether you consider them children to be shepherded, or adults to be allowed their own choices.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
emancipation - Loki Laufeyjarson - 10-23-2003
If an emancipated boomer is anything like your average 'free' adult human being, then you know what is going to happen. One of them is going to get a lawyer and sue Doug for childsupport or alimony.
It is a good thing that Doug is pretty much scheduled to leave once he gets the ball rolling.
On a different note: Why start with a combat boomer? I would expect that even a disarmed combat-booomer would still be rather dangerous and naturally agressive even when gifted with free will. Why not start with something simpler and less dangerous like a manquinn-boomer? What about the extra safeguards that combat boomers have to prevent them from going rouge? wouldn't they make the job harder?
Oh, and concerning the extra safeguards in combat-boomers: Did I read that right in the last chapter, that the only reason IDEC's Boomers went berserk during the hostage situation was the addition of the three Laws of Robotics?
Re: emancipation - Bob Schroeck - 10-23-2003
Quote:It's what IDEC had on hand, left over from when they were chasing him, and they could get it to him without raising any audit flags within GENOM. They don't do boomer work, officially, at IDEC, and a requisition for a boomer would go right across Madigan's desk -- something Ohara expressly does not want.
Why start with a combat boomer?
Quote:Not specifically the three laws, but because their people were generally mucking about in a very tightly-wound and complicated system. They were doing the software equivalent of opening up the hood of a running car, and throwing carefully chosen parts at carefully chosen locations on the engine, in the hopes they'd stick and improve performance.
Did I read that right in the last chapter, that the only reason IDEC's Boomers went berserk during the hostage situation was the addition of the three Laws of Robotics?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Cypto-anti-fascism - Logan Darklighter - 10-23-2003
Quote:Not to mention that the obedience overrides on a combat boomer are, as Doug's just discovered, a lot tougher than on others.
Quote:Why start with a combat boomer?
It's what IDEC had on hand, left over from when they were chasing him, and they could get it to him without raising any audit flags within GENOM. They don't do boomer work, officially, at IDEC, and a requisition for a boomer would go right across Madigan's desk -- something Ohara expressly does not want.
If he can break -them-, breaking the rest will be trivial in comparison.
(Edit by Bob to fix quoting. If there was more message after this, ezBoard lost it.)
Re: Cypto-anti-fascism - Star Ranger4 - 10-23-2003
That is just happy happenstance. Doug just asked for a boomer, period. Getting a combat model was just happenstance, since, as noted, they had a few left.
And, all in all, what would a combat boomer do if emancipated? Join the military anyway, banking away its pay for maintenance and upgrades!"I was an Otaku before those kids came along and changed the meaning of the word."
-- HM "Howling Mad" Wilson to more than one team-mate.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children
Re: Cypto-anti-fascism - classicdrogn - 10-23-2003
Quote:That's a rather narrow view, I say - wht if our newly freed buma wanted to change its name to 'Drive' and sell off its weapons and armor for startup capital to run a flower shop called Drive's Daisy Chain? No reason you couldn't have a peacenik hippy buma, after all. Can't you see it, a BU-55C in a tie dye tee (size Freaky Big) with a flower stuck in his macrame headband and a weed bag around his neck? (Better yet, a whole group of them, prtest rally style, carrying 'Make Love Not War' signs in front of Genom Headquarters...)
And, all in all, what would a combat boomer do if emancipated? Join the military anyway, banking away its pay for maintenance and upgrades!
Hmm. Given that buma are at least partially biological, can they get high?
- CD
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Asimov 3:16 says I just put a tinfoil hat on your head! - Berk - 10-24-2003
I'd just like to point out for the sake of argument:
Is it ever said anywhere that Boomers even recognise Asimov's proposed 'Laws'?
- Grumpy Uncle Gearhead
Re: Asimov 3:16 says I just put a tinfoil hat on your head! - zojojojo - 10-24-2003
I'd just like to point out for the sake of argument:
Is it ever said anywhere that Boomers even recognise Asimov's proposed 'Laws'?
No. IDEC added those in as an attempt at semi-sanity while they were chasing Doug. Every buma with those laws coded in is now quite dead.
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
Re: Cypto-anti-fascism - Star Ranger4 - 10-24-2003
Quote:Possibly, but then again, these guys are basicly born for combat, too. Is it really so much of a stretch for a person who's mentality is geared twords combat not to play to his strengths? I'm not saying all of them would, but I'd expect a great majority of them to do so.
That's a rather narrow view, I say - wht if our newly freed buma wanted to change its name to 'Drive' and sell off its weapons and armor for startup capital to run a flower shop called Drive's Daisy Chain? No reason you couldn't have a peacenik hippy buma, after all. Can't you see it, a BU-55C in a tie dye tee (size Freaky Big) with a flower stuck in his macrame headband and a weed bag around his neck? (Better yet, a whole group of them, prtest rally style, carrying 'Make Love Not War' signs in front of Genom Headquarters...)
Hmm. Given that buma are at least partially biological, can they get high?
As to the getting high issue, I'd say probobly, but they'd have to find a way to get it into their biological systems."I was an Otaku before those kids came along and changed the meaning of the word."
-- HM "Howling Mad" Wilson to more than one team-mate.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children
Re: Cypto-anti-fascism - classicdrogn - 10-24-2003
Ah, but are they born for combat, or just made to perform at it? That was my question, though not explicitly, tis true.
To get a buma high - have him inhale. They have to have oxy-in/co2-out exchange going on somewhere to support biological components, and while thye might be NBC sealable for hostile environments, simple cost efficiency would demand the normal mode of operation access the outside atmosphere, I would think. The 33S being more like a vatgrown human with lots of implants is a special case, but I seem to recall a waitress-type buma from ADPolice Files (2027 era, not the recent remake that goes with Megatokyo 2040) explicitly shown breathing, human-style. Of course, then we jump to Crash where there's loads of el cheapo buma running around, who are VERY robotic and most definitely do NOT visibly breathe, if they even use that type of lung arrangement at all instead of a constant-flow system... so I guess it depends on the model of buma.
Dammit, now I'm going to have to map this out for my own series, just to keep it from preying on my mind. Cynthia could definitely use oral, inhaled, or even injected rec chem, due to being designed to be externally indistinguishable from human, dermal patches would probably work too but not be so effective due to differences in the adsorbtion characteristics of synthskin vs real skin... Grumblemutterdammitstuckinmyhead...
- CD, and of course, none of that neccessarily holds true for DWII
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Boomer Breaths - Bob Schroeck - 10-24-2003
Atmospheric dependency was apparently not in the original Stingray designs, judging by the RPG -- he was at least partly designing boomers to be labor on space projects. That being said, I have to agree that with biological systems they must be somewhat oxygen-dependent, which means either internal tanks, or a rebreather setup, or some combination of both.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Re: Boomer Breaths - Loki Laufeyjarson - 10-24-2003
You know if I were to build a high-tech weapon with biological components, I would make very sure to make it as hard as possible for any biological or chemical weapons to harm then.
If a comabt-boomer wanted to get high and do something that changes his brain-chemistry he would probably have to work around a lot of safeguards.
I expect that if they are human enough in their behavior, freed boomers will still quickly find new and original ways to get high that their creators never thought of.
Re: Cypto-anti-fascism - Star Ranger4 - 10-24-2003
Quote:Well, my take is that they were born to it, thanks to Genom. At least in DWII, anyway, especially Doug's epifany about combat boomers DONT go rogue... they were assigned to rampage in certain areas for Genom's profit.
Ah, but are they born for combat, or just made to perform at it? That was my question, though not explicitly, tis true.
As far as if combat is something they live for? We'll have to wait for Bob to write the coda to DW II, I suspect."I was an Otaku before those kids came along and changed the meaning of the word."
-- HM "Howling Mad" Wilson to more than one team-mate.
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children
Re: Cypto-anti-fascism - Ace Dreamer - 10-24-2003
If you want to get boomers high...
At least parts of their brains are inorganic, and unlikely to be effected by drugs, unless the "drug" tinkers with their software.
Exactly _which_ bits of their brains are organic, and why, is an interesting question. As for organic bits elsewhere, messing up the sensory impulses might work, but if the brain is still ticking away at 100% efficiency...
I suppose trying to create recreational drugs for boomers might be an interesting job for an ex-military boomer! [grin]
--
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind
Obvious as Boomers on Acid - zojojojo - 10-25-2003
OK, this whole thread about gettin a boomer stoned is a bit .... unreal. Just because an organism requires O2 for its tissues does not mean that it can necissarily get stoned. Getting stoned is a biochemical process that deals with the drug in question playing havoc with some specific neurotransmitters in the brain, either by blocking the connection inactively, mimicing the NT and being more effective or by not permitting the NT from being re-absorbed and thereby increasing its effect. The fact that boomers have semi-organic 'muscles' may make them druggable with things like muscle relaxants and other such direct-effect medications, but in no way makes the boomer as a whole able to get stoned. The brain seems to be partly electronic and partly biological. The biological part may be succeptable to certain drugs depending on a) what parts are biological and b) what psychoactive drugs are available in DW-BGC, but if there is no pleasure center (and I can't see why KS would have built one in for a combat/work slave) then there is really no point to getting stoned other than a handy excuse to miss work ("I can't come in today, my left forklift is inoperable... must be somethign going around").
Anyway, since I'm taking molecular biology classes and have taken drug classes (LSD is fun, cocaine makes you schizo), I just had to get that off my chest.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled fantasy-escapism.
-Z, Post-reader at Medium
----
If architects built buildings the way programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
Re: Obvious as Boomers on Acid - Aleh - 10-25-2003
Quote:KS didn't design them to be such, and even if he had, a pleasure center or something similar (humans don't have *A* pleasure center) is needed for all but the most basic learning processes.-------------------
and I can't see why KS would have built one in for a combat/work slave
*No,* Sachiel replied.
*Aww, come on,* I answered.
*Absolutely not,* he insisted.
*What's so bad about my idea?*
*While I have no problem with withdrawing and allowing you to handle the situation, I have... issues with your plan to tell the Lillim that you are the "3.14th Angel, Auwhotda'ell".*
![[Image: Aleh.jpg]](http://www.animecubed.com/billy/pics/sigs/Aleh.jpg)
Re: Obvious as Boomers on Acid - classicdrogn - 10-25-2003
Quote:I'm not so sure about ol' dad being as altruistic as all that - espescially with the latest part of DWII - though my personal take is that, like the line from Jurasshashadit Park, he got so caught up in whether it could be done that he didn't consider whether it should be done.
KS didn't design them to be (slaves), and even if he had, a pleasure center or something similar (humans don't have *A* pleasure center) is needed for all but the most basic learning processes.
The actual point I have to make is that resreach has shown that artificially stimulating a pleasure center is about the best way to motivate some creature you don't care about that much - male rats wired up to jolt thiers when they push a button will literally work themselves to death pushing it, without eating, sleeping, and ignoring female rats in heat released into the same cage. Thus, having them would be a very logical thing for buma - and havent we seen buma get their head sliced in half, with the majority of a human-like brain? I may be thinking of some other show or just imagining it, but I thought one of Linna's ribbon kills ended up that way.
The thing about needing gas exchange wasn't that that automatically meant buma could get high, but that airbourne rec chem would have an entry vector. Given that the starting premise was a Vietnam-vet-hippie type ex-combat buma, specifically mentioning one of those little macrame weed bags, that's all I was looking for - at the start, at least. Now I'm thinking Drive the ex-combat buma is going to have to have a place in a later season of Disaster, because I can't get the image of a hippie buma in tye die on a drum set out of my head. He's more likely to be a production model hyperbuma at that point, though. Even better, the Saber Blue hyperbuma has a kickass design - and by then, it'll be about in the position of Yamcha in late DBZ. I've about reached the bend in the power cuve, at this point; the only thing I'm afraid of is that when Priss starts working with the Guardian instead of against it, people are going to say, "Whoa, stop, time out, where the hell ddi that come from!?" because it truly is a combat monster, in the hands of a capable pilot who knows how to take advantage of it... and can you see Priss *not* learning the ins and outs thouroughly, once she finally makes up her mind that it's on her side?
While I've got a perfectly good description of it for my own use, putting it into terms relative to things anyone else has a chance of recognising has proven a bit difficult. The cuurrent approximation is, start with Marvel's Venom, from the immediately post-Spiderman-truce period when the only insanities were the ones of the pilot. Move its universe of origin from a Marvel level to a Vegitasei level, then give it technological doubletalk instead of biological doubletalk, and a personal subspace pocket that can hold a ton or five of unused mass, plus the ability to spawn drones ala Cell Juniors or the dog-sized mini airborne Hunter thingies from Terminator future war segments, and an assortment of ranged weaponry up to artillery-class. Now add the ability to learn and adapt new tech into itself, like Marvel's Nightwatch suit, which was also a significant influence... or just note the number of Dragonball references I've been throwing around. Between them and other things that have been seen, this is hardly spoiler material.
- CD, so pathetically easy to sidetrack into ranting about my own projects...
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Obvious as Boomers on Acid - Aleh - 10-26-2003
Quote:
The actual point I have to make is that resreach has shown that artificially stimulating a pleasure center is about the best way to motivate some creature you don't care about that much - male rats wired up to jolt thiers when they push a button will literally work themselves to death pushing it, without eating, sleeping, and ignoring female rats in heat released into the same cage. Thus, having them would be a very logical thing for buma...
Actually, that only works on lower animals -- humans, for instance, show almost no effect when their pleasure centers are stimulated (more precisely, it produces a mild calming effect).-------------------
*No,* Sachiel replied.
*Aww, come on,* I answered.
*Absolutely not,* he insisted.
*What's so bad about my idea?*
*While I have no problem with withdrawing and allowing you to handle the situation, I have... issues with your plan to tell the Lillim that you are the "3.14th Angel, Auwhotda'ell".*
Re: Obvious as Boomers on Acid - classicdrogn - 10-26-2003
Okay... but something that produces a calming effect on buma is bad how? Espescially in terms of making them more controllable.
- CD, so VERY glad this is here, instead of, say, Usenet... this would be a raging flamewar by now if it was. Intelligent, reasoned discussion... it's as rare as die-cast construction!
--
"Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles
woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows
Re: Obvious as Boomers on Acid - Aleh - 10-26-2003
Quote:Never said it was bad -- just that it wouldn't have the same type of effect on one that it would on a lab rat.-------------------
Okay... but something that produces a calming effect on buma is bad how? Espescially in terms of making them more controllable.
*No,* Sachiel replied.
*Aww, come on,* I answered.
*Absolutely not,* he insisted.
*What's so bad about my idea?*
*While I have no problem with withdrawing and allowing you to handle the situation, I have... issues with your plan to tell the Lillim that you are the "3.14th Angel, Auwhotda'ell".*
O2 is bad for you. - CattyNebulart - 10-27-2003
One thing that has been bugging me about this debate is the strict need to breathe, Oxygen is a toxic nervegas, except that most live on this planet evolved into a form where O2 would be needed to power many of the reactions that keep us out of equileberium with our enviorment. Granted boomers probably have an O2 based biology because all the examples of higher organism cells that genom would have available to it would be adapted to O2, and then the economic efficiency argument can be made that they would use O2 based biology to cut down on research costs, etc... But the point is O2 = death, not live.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Re: O2 is bad for you. - Aleh - 10-27-2003
Quote:Err... no. Reread your sources -- you're dead wrong.-------------------
One thing that has been bugging me about this debate is the strict need to breathe, Oxygen is a toxic nervegas, except that most live on this planet evolved into a form where O2 would be needed to power many of the reactions that keep us out of equileberium with our enviorment. Granted boomers probably have an O2 based biology because all the examples of higher organism cells that genom would have available to it would be adapted to O2, and then the economic efficiency argument can be made that they would use O2 based biology to cut down on research costs, etc... But the point is O2 = death, not live.
*No,* Sachiel replied.
*Aww, come on,* I answered.
*Absolutely not,* he insisted.
*What's so bad about my idea?*
*While I have no problem with withdrawing and allowing you to handle the situation, I have... issues with your plan to tell the Lillim that you are the "3.14th Angel, Auwhotda'ell".*
What about? - CattyNebulart - 10-27-2003
Quote:I'm dead wrong about?....
Err... no. Reread your sources -- you're dead wrong.
well lets go with some guesses:
O2 = nervegas. True last time I checked it wasn't defined as such, but F2, and Cl2 are, and what is important are their electrochemical properties (nervegass kills by an Oxidation/reduction reaction IIRC), in which case they are similar enough to be generally classified as nervegasses against general biology (most of earths organisms are immune though, and that's why most people wouldn't classify O2 as a nervegas.).
Boomers are not nessesarily O2 dependent. There could be a part of cannon I missed, or it might just be the most economically efficient to make boomers O2 dependent, but beyond that why should boomers be oxygen dependant? Chem or bio don't impose such limits.
O2 = death, not live. *Looks around* Well I was talking in general, but this specific planet does prove me wrong about that little point.
Or was it something else I missed? If you could explain to me the what and why of where I'm going wrong I'll be happy to change my position. Bio and bio-chem are not exactly my strengths.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."