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+--- Thread: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" (/showthread.php?tid=12583)
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-19-2018
Students of Parkland, Fla., step up and speak out in wake of school shooting - includes video
Why the ACLU supported Trump when he scrapped rule limiting guns for mentally ill - includes video
Quote:Trump likes to "say this is a mental health issue, but one of your very first acts as president, Mr. Trump, was to actually roll back the regulations that were designed to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill," said TV talk show host Jimmy Kimmel.
"You did that."
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - SilverFang01 - 02-19-2018
I have been thinking that maybe we could do more with gun taxation than gun regulation.
Like pistols would be taxed at 10% of value, hunting rifles at 30% and semi-automatics regardless of if it's a pistol or rifle be taxed at 90% of value, and this tax should be paid yearly, with the money going to fund insurance for gun violence victims.
There is precedent with cigarette taxes.
Collectors get a discount or exemption if the rifle barrel is filled with lead.
Yes, I know it wouldn't fly.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-19-2018
If you were to go down that road, I'd suggest taxing hunting rifles at 10% and pistols at 30%. Hunting rifles can be used for hunting, after all.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-19-2018
To be honest, one of the most key problems with gun control is that, like with other things you want to restrict access to, you have to be able to enforce it. If you can buy a gun anywhere in the country and bring it home without getting searched even once, you've got a problem with enforcing the gun control measure when there's different standards on who and when can buy a gun.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-19-2018
True that. I'm from a country where firearms are (supposed to be) registered and licensed, so taxation would be relatively easy to add in ... except that we got rid of our national firearm-ownership list a couple of years ago, so it would need to be rebuilt.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-19-2018
You are supposed to register and license your guns, and the government decided to shred the master list to check if your guns are actually registered and licensed? Forget taxation, how do you even enforce that law now?
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-19-2018
Just because the government doesn't have a list of licensed gun owners doesn't mean the police doesn't have such a list.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-20-2018
(02-19-2018, 09:07 PM)robkelk Wrote: Just because the government doesn't have a list of licensed gun owners doesn't mean the police doesn't have such a list.
I thought the police were part of the government?
And sure, lower ranked bodies probably have (part) of such a list, but the central coordination tool that made it easier apparently no longer exists.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-20-2018
If the police are part of the government, you get problems with government interference in police forces andpolice operations. (Somewhat like the problems you get if the military or the judicial system are part of the government. Oh, but you folks elect judges...)
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - SilverFang01 - 02-20-2018
In a post I saw on the Book of Faces, it was suggested by a veteran that instead of referring to assault weapons, we should be referring to them as semi-automatics, since that is a function that both pistols and rifles that have been used in these crimes have in common. An assault weapons ban would be easier to circumvent due to the ambiguity that exists when defining what an assault weapon is, but if you refer to semi-autos then you grab both of them and in theory it would be harder to circumvent by changing superficial characteristics.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - Dartz - 02-20-2018
Probably another Mass Shooting, according to WWN
Usually WWN are fairly good at getting to the truth of matters, well before anyone else.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-21-2018
Victims of recent mass shootings. Art by Pia Guerra.
![[Image: shooting-comic-20180217.jpg]](https://i.cbc.ca/1.4540976.1518918824!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/shooting-comic-20180217.jpg)
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - DHBirr - 02-21-2018
(02-21-2018, 12:21 PM)robkelk Wrote: Victims of recent mass shootings. Art by Pia Guerra.
Guerra commented in an article I read that most of the crowd welcoming Mr. Feis are meant to be from the Sandy Hook shooting.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-21-2018
I'm... not getting it. Sorry, the name Feis means nothing to me.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - Bob Schroeck - 02-21-2018
Aaron Feis died in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High shooting last week, shielding students with his body.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-21-2018
Aaron Feis, who threw himself between the Florida shooter and one of the intended victims.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-21-2018
I see.
It'd be a potent statement if I actually had a connection to the events referenced, but for me, I'm just an outsider looking in in disbelief at the disfunction of the US.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - SilverFang01 - 02-21-2018
The Florida legislature in its wisdom has decided that porn is a more pressing issue than gun control:
http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/20/florida-house-rejects-considering-ban-on-assault-weapons-and-high-capacity-magazines/
Like with Sandy Hook and others, the right wing noise machine is doing everything it can to drown the students calls for gun control:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/21/i-am-not-a-crisis-actor-florida-teens-fire-back-at-right-wing-conspiracy-theorists/?utm_term=.3e9c1c10df0d
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/business/media/parkland-shooting-media-conspiracy.html
A Texas district is threatening students who go to the protests against gun violence:
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article201328394.html
Trump's solution to school shootings, straight from the office of Wayne LaPierre (NRA-terrorist)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/21/donald-trump-solution-to-school-shootings-arm-teachers-with-guns
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-23-2018
Associated Press: Armed school officer didn't confront Florida gunman, sheriff says
Instead, he chose to refrain from confronting the shooter, for two-thirds of the shooting spree.
So, what was the point to arming teachers, again?
Buried at the end of this article: National Car Rental, Enterprise, and Alamo are ending their discount rates for NRA members as of March 26, and First National Bank of Omaha is not renewing its contract to issue a NRA-branded Visa credit card.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - Bob Schroeck - 02-23-2018
It makes Republicans look good to their lunatic-fringe base while providing extra income to the gun manufacturers. It's a win-win for everyone but shooting victims! And they don't vote, so they don't count.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-23-2018
(02-23-2018, 12:21 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: It makes Republicans look good to their lunatic-fringe base while providing extra income to the gun manufacturers. It's a win-win for everyone but shooting victims! And they don't vote, so they don't count.
Unless the Russians need a new name for a bot and hijack their internet accounts.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-23-2018
More companies distance themselves from the NRA
Quote:Symantec has stopped its discount program with the National Rifle Association.
Chubb will no longer underwrite the NRA-branded insurance policy that covers legal costs in self-defence shootings.
Metlife is cutting its discounts for NRA members.
Shares of Sturm Ruger & Co. and American Outdoor Brands are down 2% in trading in New York this afternoon after BlackRock (the world's largest investment asset manager, with over $6 trillion in assets) announced they would be speaking with the two firearms manufacturers: "We focus on engaging with the company and understanding how they are responding to society's expectations of them"
Oh, and the #BoycottNRA hashtag is trending.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - Dartz - 02-24-2018
(02-21-2018, 08:16 PM)SilverFang01 Wrote: The Florida legislature in its wisdom has decided that porn is a more pressing issue than gun control:
http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/02/20/florida-house-rejects-considering-ban-on-assault-weapons-and-high-capacity-magazines/
Like with Sandy Hook and others, the right wing noise machine is doing everything it can to drown the students calls for gun control:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/21/i-am-not-a-crisis-actor-florida-teens-fire-back-at-right-wing-conspiracy-theorists/?utm_term=.3e9c1c10df0d
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/business/media/parkland-shooting-media-conspiracy.html
A Texas district is threatening students who go to the protests against gun violence:
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article201328394.html
Trump's solution to school shootings, straight from the office of Wayne LaPierre (NRA-terrorist)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/21/donald-trump-solution-to-school-shootings-arm-teachers-with-guns
"If protests were effective, they would be forbidden"
If they're trying to stop you, thay're afraid you can win. Which means one thing...
You can win.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - robkelk - 02-27-2018
CBC Opinion/Editorial: It is too late for gun control in America
Quote:The youth protests are quite understandable: these are kids who grew up being told they have an absolute right to protection from words that offend them, let alone mass murderers carrying weapons designed to kill soldiers in war.
In fact, though, the bedrock law of their country guarantees both things: the right to offensive speech and the right to own and carry battlefield weapons in public.
These youth have also been misled, especially since the 9/11 attacks, into believing that the most sacred duty of their president is to protect American lives, when in fact their president has no intention of protecting theirs. He will do nothing to prevent the next murderer from picking up an AR-15 and setting out for some school to see if he can break the previous shooter's record.
This is not opinion. It is the only possible conclusion.
Quote:And in Caetano v. Massachusetts, two years ago, the [US Supreme] court further declared that the Second Amendment applies "to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding (of the nation)."
In other words, Americans can bear whatever modern ordnance they can carry, from sniper rifles to hand-cannon pistols to the weapon of choice for mass murderers, the AR-15.
Quote:Look to the origins of the Second Amendment. As the federal court of appeals in D.C. has ruled, Americans have the right to bear arms in self-defence, which it defined as "resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad)."
Think about that one. Americans have the right to amass an arsenal to defend themselves against their own government, if it becomes tyrannical.
And anyone who doubts that millions would regard any effort to take their guns away as the depredations of a tyrannical government need only consult the essays regularly carried on the NRA website.
It would be civil war.
RE: "It's always too soon to talk about gun control" - hazard - 02-27-2018
That's bleak Rob, really bleak.
Although, quite frankly, at this point it really becomes a question of how long can this gun control movement last. David Hogg (one of the student activists from Stoneman Marjorie High) put it quite simply; their generation of fed up teenagers is considerably younger than the average NRA member, even if they can't make a change now the NRA membership is likely to just die out and the interpretation of the Second Amendment to change as the public sentiment does, if it's not itself amended.
Of course, if it does come down to a second American Civil War the question becomes what side the military joins, because that side will win. Even if it becomes a highly bloody conflict against a terrorist insurgency.