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+--- Thread: Brexit or Breaksit? (/showthread.php?tid=13191)
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Black Aeronaut - 07-22-2019
Only they're pretty much at the same point we were when we had The Articles of Confederation. But I'm pretty sure that if they really want things to go where I think they want to, they're eventually gonna have to wind up actually federalizing. They're already pretty close anyhow.
As for what possible ill effects BREXIT will have?
Well, the UK has a few points where freight trucks can roll right on in - as long as they have the proper decals, they can pass through without having to stop to be inspected because they've already been vetted.
And these points are pretty much non-stop, day and night. The trucks just keep rolling through like a conga line of commerce.
A No Deal BREXIT would put the kibosh on that because the system originally used to vet all these trucks will no longer apply. At that point, all fright traffic will actually have to stop and wait for inspections.
Each.
And.
Every.
One.
What was once a thoroughfare through which thousands of freight trucks would pass through, virtually uncontested, suddenly becomes the thinnest of bottle necks that only a few hundred a day would be able to squeeze through. At least until the UK could work out a new arrangement outside of the original agreements before BREXIT.
Now, I know you're one to be highly concerned about national security, Rajvik, but the problem here is not security - they have very little issue with that. What it will do is practically stop goods from entering the country due to the lengthy process that doing things "the old fashioned way" would require.
I'm pretty sure you can understand how that would adversely affect Brittan's economy.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Labster - 07-22-2019
(07-20-2019, 07:28 PM)Rajvik Wrote: I am going to ask a hypothetical question here, what happens if you are wrong?
Seriously, say there is a hard Brexit and all this doom and gloom that the globalists are predicting fails to occur.
I mean, the entire point of Britain being in the EU was for ease of economic deals like the old NAFTA and part of their argument for Brexit is that Brussels is making more and more policy demands on Britain to include that they take in the middle eastern refugees that have flooded Europe. Where does the EU have the right to make such a demand? That is not a trade agreement, that's policy, and unless Brussels now sets government policy for something that is supposed to be about free trade then the Brits have every right to tell them to go hang.
This is actually a legit question, though. It is quite possible that a solo Britain will do better economically in the long term. In the medium term, creating an independent economy will cause pain, but birth is always a painful process.
In the short term, though, I don't think anyone can argue that the current process is not a shambles. The market has agreed, as far as that goes. I tend to focus on that in my posts, because it's fun to criticize governments (and the US/UK relationship is such that we know criticizing the government is not a grievance against the country itself).
I am a globalist, though. I believe in the U.S. Constitution, and the vast, open-border duty-free zone it enabled across the North American continent. I agree with BlackAeronaut -- confederations seem nice in theory, but in practice it's kind of a sweet spot for inefficiency in the capitalist era. Not enough independence to allow for true specialization or social homogeny, nor integrated enough to make central fiscal policy effective. Of the options on the other side, I believe that countries that embraced free trade and open borders have done better economically than those that did not, such as the U.S.S.R.
And I also believe that wanting free trade without free migration is morally dubious, because it means that we value possessions more than people. This is the EU position, for the most part. The U.S. has had internal open borders for more than 200 years, and aside from a few instances like the Okies or Bleeding Kansas, it's been pretty much conflict-free. (You could argue that the Civil War was about forced migration policies but that's pretty far afield from the sorts of modern problems that could arise.) Cases where refugee migration was refused are now looked back with disdain, like when we closed our ports to Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis. I assume the current treatment of refugees will be judged similarly, and future Americans will have every reason to curse me and the rest of Americans for our sins.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Matrix Dragon - 07-23-2019
Well FUCK.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - robkelk - 07-23-2019
In with a rather comfortable majority, too.
Ah, well. I suppose the UK will just have to see what trade agreements exist within NATO and the Commonwealth, since they won't get the protections of the EU's import agreements any more.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - hazard - 07-23-2019
The UK basically doesn't have any trade agreements of its own. They've been part of the EU for more than 40 years, so nearly all trade agreements they had were replaced with EU wide trade deals.
They don't even have separate trade agreements with the EU, which is going to hit them hard without a deal because the EU is their biggest trade partner and they'll be suffering the tariffs both ways and without any mitigation granted by a trade deal, as well as a complete lack of customs enforcement and coordination preparations for trade with the EU. They've simply neglected to prepare for that except for saying things like 'oh technology will handle that', even though the technology doesn't even exist yet, nor does the infrastructure to support that technology.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Matrix Dragon - 07-23-2019
(07-23-2019, 09:08 AM)hazard Wrote: They've simply neglected to prepare for that except for saying things like 'oh technology will handle that', even though the technology doesn't even exist yet, nor does the infrastructure to support that technology.
They haven't even funded research and development of the technology. They have essentially declared that something will magically appear along the UK border that will make all their problems go away. It is horrifying just how insanely stupid they've been this whole time. And Boris Johnson has already declared this next exit deadline will be 'do-or-die' and he's going to force the EU to come back to the negotiating table. The EU, knowing exactly what the idiots speech would be, released a statement at the exact same time saying they had no interest in renegotiating with the UK again, as they've already made all the concessions their member nations are willing to tolerate.
It's going to be a disaster, people will die, and Boris will blame everyone except himself, but especially the immigrants.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Dartz - 07-23-2019
And now we reach the coming of Nemesis, given form through centuries of Hubris before the world.
There won't be any Deus Ex Machina this time, not unless a random lightning bolt zaps Boris - this is fucking Greek.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - robkelk - 07-24-2019
(07-23-2019, 07:20 AM)robkelk Wrote: In with a rather comfortable majority, too.
Ah, well. I suppose the UK will just have to see what trade agreements exist within NATO and the Commonwealth, since they won't get the protections of the EU's import agreements any more.
Well, that isn't happening.
Canadian businesses need more than optimism from Boris Johnson
Quote:Panic set in over the prospect of a no-deal Brexit. In an emergency move to protect British consumers and businesses from sudden price shocks, the U.K. published a "temporary" list offering any country — not just those with pre-existing trade deals — tariff-free access for 87 per cent of what the U.K. imports, without a requirement for any reciprocal tariff cuts for British exports.
Canadian officials found out about it from the media, the source said.
Lowering these tariffs undercut the value of the preferential trade deal Canada thought it had negotiated with the U.K. Canada was grateful it hadn't finalized its commitment too soon, the government source said.
"Why would Canada make any concessions in a CETA equivalent [deal] when we know that we'll have pretty much 95 per cent duty-free access into that market?" said Brian Kingston, vice-president of the Business Council of Canada.
"Yes, the U.K. is an important and large market, but any negotiator sitting down with them would recognize that there's a different level of desperation with the Brits."
(For those who don't follow trade deals: CETA)
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Black Aeronaut - 07-28-2019
Heh. Having a fire sale before the fire is even out, huh?
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Dartz - 07-28-2019
Quote:"Yes, the U.K. is an important and large market, but any negotiator sitting down with them would recognize that there's a different level of desperation with the Brits."
Westminster still lives is the delusion of the British Empire and the British Empire with all its evils still lives in Westminster.
And more and more, this has brought out the vindictive streak deep inside of me.
They are doing a damned stupid thing in a damned stupid way and damning everyone in the process. They've already threatened to try and starve us as a negotiating tactic - an idea that's both ghastly in historical context, and ghastly in a modern context - and utterly idiotic considering just how food secure we are. Priti Patel is now Secretary of State.
There is a total disconnect from reality.
Everyone else has realised it except Westminster. This is basically how the EU negotiations went. "These are the terms you will accept". That's basically how India approached it - we'll trade with you,. but you have to accept massive immigration. That's how America's approaching it - with a long list of demands that Britain must accept and very, very few concessions. Japan was like, nah, we're going with the market of 460 million people which is more important than 65 million. South America will trade with the EU but not the UK..... And now Canada is getting in line.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Matrix Dragon - 07-28-2019
*Googles Patel.* Thatcher is her idol. Jesus Christ...
But yeah, you've nailed it. They somehow still think the British Empire is the center of the universe.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - classicdrogn - 07-28-2019
There's a bit from one of the Bond movies that sums that up, I think:
M: Naturally, only Britain could be trusted with such a responsibility.
Bond: (sarcastic) Well naturally. The rest were all foreigners.
Johnson's idea of negotiation seems to be like a foiled bank robber attempting to hold a pistol up to his own head and shout that if the police don't accept his demands he'll shoot.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - hazard - 07-28-2019
And the question the police is asking is 'who else will be harmed, to what extent, and can we get that gun away from him without risking more?'
And the answers are clearly 'A few people will get splattered and will need some assistance, but recovery will be near guaranteed, and unless we convince him to drop the gun himself it's just too dangerous to try'.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Dartz - 07-28-2019
The EU's just spent the last three years putting down the newspaper. The cleanup will be easy.
While I'm just sort of mirroring Captain Kirk's sentiment about the Klingons in Star Trek VI. This continued pricking around and willingness to throw everyone and everything they can under a bus, or dragging everyone they can under it with them, ihas utterly ruined any possible goodwill or trust anyone could have.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - robkelk - 07-28-2019
(07-28-2019, 07:08 AM)Matrix Dragon Wrote: *Googles Patel.* Thatcher is her idol. Jesus Christ...
But yeah, you've nailed it. They somehow still think the British Empire is the center of the universe.
To be fair, Thatcher won the Falklands War.
The problem here is that the UK doesn't need a war leader right now. They need a negotiator, not somebody who's willing to practice brinkmanship.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - hazard - 07-28-2019
Or for that matter, a leader who can tell his people 'unless there's an overwhelming majority with the next referendum on Brexit declaring Brexit without a deal, we continue the process until we get a deal through Parliament, and if 'no Brexit' has the largest vote share there will be no Brexit'
Also, Britain, you know the Leave campaigners for Brexit broke the law, stop partisan politicking and start prosecuting them for the breach of campaign finance laws at minimum.
Of course, none of that will happen for as long as the Tories are in charge, and might not happen even if Labour ends up running the government.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Matrix Dragon - 08-03-2019
(07-28-2019, 05:03 PM)hazard Wrote: Also, Britain, you know the Leave campaigners for Brexit broke the law, stop partisan politicking and start prosecuting them for the breach of campaign finance laws at minimum.
Thatcher Wannabe has announced she wants a zero-tolerance attitude in all fields of law enforcement, and for potential criminals to literally be terrified. I wonder if such things will apply to the time she made international deals without government approval, or her allies in the Leave campaign...
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Dartz - 08-03-2019
Meanwhile, from the altered reality matrix
It's like Josef fucking Fritzl can't understand why the girls don't remember all the good times they had together in the basement.
What fucking ancient ties? The leash, the lash or the noose? The Narcissism of empire again.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - DHBirr - 08-03-2019
Dartz, that link appears to be no good. I get the error message:
Quote:This site can’t be reached %27https’s server IP address could not be found.I will try searching for those terms, but you need to know about the bad link.
Search Google for 'https telegraph politics 2019 varadkar wrong disregard ancient ties britain ireland
ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Dartz - 08-03-2019
(08-03-2019, 07:41 PM)DHBirr Wrote: Dartz, that link appears to be no good. I get the error message:
Quote:This site can’t be reached %27https’s server IP address could not be found.I will try searching for those terms, but you need to know about the bad link.
Search Google for 'https telegraph politics 2019 varadkar wrong disregard ancient ties britain ireland
ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
Huh
I tried to fix it and it works for me. But in the end I didn't change a single thing in the post.
EDIT: Switched to Google Cache
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Matrix Dragon - 08-03-2019
Well there's someone that sees things like the potato famine from the point of view of the fuckers that caused it.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Mamorien - 08-03-2019
(08-03-2019, 08:02 PM)Matrix Dragon Wrote: Well there's someone that sees things like the potato famine from the point of view of the fuckers that caused it.
There's someone who says Ireland's leadership have "reaffirmed their desire to be weaponised by Brussels in the EU’s determination to force a no-deal Brexit." Are the EU also weaponizing Boorish Johnson? Because he was pretty determined to force a no-deal Brexit himself, last I heard. Maybe the Torygraph didn't get the memo. That would be wildly unsurprising, given that they apparently haven't gotten any memos, full-stop end-of-report, since Churchill popped his clogs.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - classicdrogn - 08-03-2019
Seeing as one of the "premium" link headlines offered further down the page literally says "Johnson should channel Churchill and (thus and such,)" I can't say you're wrong...
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - Dartz - 08-06-2019
It's the hum of desperation from them
Bite the pillow, this deal's going in dry.
Yet again, this is news to nobodfy.
RE: Brexit or Breaksit? - robkelk - 08-06-2019
(08-06-2019, 03:24 PM)Dartz Wrote: It's the hum of desperation from them"It looks like you're using an ad-blocker!"
Does any other service have the same story?