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+--- Thread: Turkey Invades Syria (/showthread.php?tid=13633)
Turkey Invades Syria - Black Aeronaut - 10-09-2019
No, that is not some euphemism. This is the real thing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/the-latest-official-turkish-troops-to-invade-syria-soon/2019/10/09/2667ff66-ea63-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html
God help us.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - SilverFang01 - 10-09-2019
I saw this on Twitter this morning and it hits the nail on the head:
‘Stonekettle’ Wrote:To America's remaining allies:
You're next.
Sincerely, Donald J. Trump.
P.S. I love you, Vladdy.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - classicdrogn - 10-09-2019
TFW when it's now twenty years of being ashamed to be an American...
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Matrix Dragon - 10-09-2019
And so, all of your allies now have confirmation of what we've known for years.
We can't trust you. You will sell us out to whichever dictator strokes your Presidents ego, and your government will do nothing.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - nemonowan - 10-10-2019
Then again, it's the Kurds, and America has been pulling the same betrayal on them time after time for decades.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Bob Schroeck - 10-10-2019
You know... I think it might be good in the long run for the United States to basically have most of the world turn its back on us. For the first couple decades after World War II, we were a good Policeman To The World because we'd worked to get there, and we'd sacrificed, and we knew the costs and had seen what happened when they weren't paid. But somewhere in the 1960s and 1970s it stopped being "we're leading the world because this is where work and sacrifice and history have put us, so we'll do it the best we can" but "Of course we lead the world, we're Murrikins!" It stopped being an obligation/duty we shouldered whether or not we were the best choice to do it at the time and instead became another instance of the "Manifest Destiny" mindset, a perception that Americans had a special position in the world that just naturally put us in charge and that what we did in that position was by definition right, regardless of what it was. (Which we probably inherited from the British, but that's another topic entirely.)
It'd be a good thing for us if the rest of the world looked elsewhere for their allies and aid for few decades -- kind of the international equivalent of ostracizing a bitchy girl at the big dance. Maybe we'll re-learn the humility that seemed to be part of the American character before WWII.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - LynnInDenver - 10-10-2019
(10-10-2019, 07:39 AM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: You know... I think it might be good in the long run for the United States to basically have most of the world turn its back on us. For the first couple decades after World War II, we were a good Policeman To The World because we'd worked to get there, and we'd sacrificed, and we knew the costs and had seen what happened when they weren't paid. But somewhere in the 1960s and 1970s it stopped being "we're leading the world because this is where work and sacrifice and history have put us, so we'll do it the best we can" but "Of course we lead the world, we're Murrikins!" It stopped being an obligation/duty we shouldered whether or not we were the best choice to do it at the time and instead became another instance of the "Manifest Destiny" mindset, a perception that Americans had a special position in the world that just naturally put us in charge and that what we did in that position was by definition right, regardless of what it was. (Which we probably inherited from the British, but that's another topic entirely.)
It'd be a good thing for us if the rest of the world looked elsewhere for their allies and aid for few decades -- kind of the international equivalent of ostracizing a bitchy girl at the big dance. Maybe we'll re-learn the humility that seemed to be part of the American character before WWII.
Can we add "trading with" to that list? Given the amount of thrashing and flailing around, anyone who trades with us (read: imports American stuff versus exports to America) should be, at best, outright demanding contracted in penalties if (read: when) we get regime change to someone who likes to shred up existing agreements because they're "unfair". At the very least, making sure we're the LAST place they come to for food, or really any of our exports. And if their exports are tight and have to start being allocated? Put us at the back of the damned line where we belong.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Labster - 10-10-2019
And may the sorghum harvest be plentiful.
Seriously guys, international relations is a highly coupled system with phase changes. One of those phase changes is called "war". When power vacuums are created, they are usually filled by someone else. There's a pretty short list of someone elses right now.
But please, if you actually want global geopolitics and society to look like Ghost in the Shell in 2040, please continue down this line of thought.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Bob Schroeck - 10-10-2019
Oh, I know there are no good alternatives, and it wouldn't be nice and neat and clean. Doesn't mean I don't want the typical American to go back to the fit, humble guy with a sense of duty instead of an overweight, entitled obnox hugging their guns as they drive their electric scooter through the Walmart.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - classicdrogn - 10-10-2019
Funny how those postwar decades are also the economic period the political problem children also want to go back top, or pretend never ended. A lot of that was being almost the only industrialized nation not to get their infrastructure severely pounded by WWII, but I wouldn't expect it to be completely divorced from that public attitude either...
Well, the way things are going another major war wouldn't surprise me. As long as not too many nukes get fired off and fuck everyone, it should remind the survivors that war is bad, for another sixty or so years of reluctant peace... until that generation's politicians die off or retire.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Matrix Dragon - 10-18-2019
So, let's recap some of the details. This is by no means complete or accurate, but that would be covering people in even less glory somehow
Massive civilian casualties. Evidence Turkey was deliberately targeting said civilian populations.
Prisons holding IS members attacked, members of IS escape.
Trump continues to demonstrate a stunning lack of understanding of reality and history, with claims like how the Kurds aren't 'real allies' and 'they weren't on the beaches of Normandy'. He's got a long history of Victim Blaming, but this is a new low.
Trump sends US troops to back up Saudi Arabia. While still claiming a major part of all this horror was to get troops out of the middle east.
US troops had to pull out so fast they left valuable supplies and even personal belongings behind. We saw this as Russian media toured the bases under the protection of Russian backed mercenaries.
In response to the threat of sanctions, Turkey pauses for a few days, declaring that the Kurds have five days to leave. Trump declares this a 'historic outcome' and cancels sanctions.
... Yeah.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - classicdrogn - 10-18-2019
Um. As a cartoon villain come to life, what odds would you put on the Cheeto in Chief having decided "If I can't have it, no one can?" After thinking of it, I am now feeling a bit worried.
edit: I meant to post this in Buckle Your Seatbelts... but it does sort of fit here, too. Oops.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - hazard - 10-18-2019
More like the Cheeto in Chief has been bought, both in Saudi Arabia and in Syria.
Of course, the question now becomes, what did they pay? Saudi Arabia at least is open about that, but only in what they pay the US.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - robkelk - 10-18-2019
(10-18-2019, 01:42 AM)Matrix Dragon Wrote: In response to the threat of sanctions, Turkey pauses for a few days, declaring that the Kurds have five days to leave. Trump declares this a 'historic outcome' and cancels sanctions.
This is some strange new definition of "pauses" that I wasn't previously familiar with.
Reuters: War monitors report fighting in Syria after Turkish-U.S. ceasefire deal
Ras al-Ayn, one day into the supposed ceasefire:
![[Image: 1176485867.jpg]](https://i.cbc.ca/1.5325653.1571386031!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/1176485867.jpg)
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Matrix Dragon - 10-18-2019
(10-18-2019, 08:13 PM)robkelk Wrote:(10-18-2019, 01:42 AM)Matrix Dragon Wrote: In response to the threat of sanctions, Turkey pauses for a few days, declaring that the Kurds have five days to leave. Trump declares this a 'historic outcome' and cancels sanctions.
This is some strange new definition of "pauses" that I wasn't previously familiar with.
Eyup. But hey, it meant Trump got to not apply sanctions to his latest dictator crush.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Black Aeronaut - 10-23-2019
What the fuck.
That orange-painted fuck-face is trying to claim victory in Syria. Even as Turkish and Russian flags fly over strongholds originally held by the Kurds.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/u-s-defense-chief-arrives-in-baghdad-for-talks-on-us-troops-leaving-syria/2019/10/23/b81ee6e6-f502-11e9-b2d2-1f37c9d82dbb_story.html
EDIT: Sorry, Turkish and Syrian flags.
No real difference, though.
RE: Turkey Invades Syria - Matrix Dragon - 10-24-2019
“This was an outcome created by us, the United States, and nobody else, no other nation. Very simple,”
Yes, you created it, you fucking monster. Turkey told you they wanted to commit ethnic cleansing, and you made it possible for them.