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+--- Thread: A bit of flag-waving... (/showthread.php?tid=13774)
A bit of flag-waving... - robkelk - 03-23-2020
"The 19th century was the century of the United States. I think we can claim that it is Canada that shall fill the 20th century."
- Sir Wilfrid Laurier, 1904
Of course, Laurier was wrong. But was he wrong completely, or only off by a century?
Take a look at the current political landscape in the G7. Almost nobody outside the USA, and few people inside that country, respect Donald Trump or follow his lead. (Scott Morrison appears to be in the same situation in Australia.) Boris Johnson took power in the UK using the politics of division, and is currently taking the UK out of its only current free-trade partner. Emmanuel Macron and Édouard Philippe are having the usual troubles running France, and don't have time to act on the world stage. Shinzo Abe is forbidden by Japanese constitution from taking a large role in world affairs. Giuseppe Conte ... who heard of him before Italy became the European epicenter for the COVID-19 outbreak?
That leaves Angela Merkel and Justin Trudeau to take the lead in world affairs. And Merkel has already announced her retirement.
Everybody likes Canada. Our border disputes are "fought" by showing the flag, not by firing heavy guns. We have a reputation of treating people fairly (which, if you look at how we treated and treat our indigenous peoples, is not deserved) and of abiding by our international treaties. We have plenty of food (which we share in times of disaster) and natural resources, and climate change isn't going to change that.
Is it Canada that shall fill the 21st century? Maybe it is. And maybe, just maybe, that's a good thing.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Norgarth - 03-23-2020
(03-23-2020, 11:47 AM)robkelk Wrote: Everybody likes Canada. Our border disputes are "fought" by showing the flag, not by firing heavy guns. We have a reputation of treating people fairly (which, if you look at how we treated and treat our indigenous peoples, is not deserved) and of abiding by our international treaties. We have plenty of food (which we share in times of disaster) and natural resources, and climate change isn't going to change that.Canada may not do particularly well by our indigenous people, but that merely marks us as 'average' , not 'bad'.
It's a rare country that treats it's indigenous people well, unfortunately.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - hazard - 03-23-2020
Sorry, but that does mark Canada as bad.
Unfortunately, practically everyone gets a bad mark in that regard.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Labster - 03-23-2020
I honestly can't think of any country doing a better job with their indigenous minority than the First Nations have in Canada. Possibly Denmark comes close, but that has a whole other set of problems. Latin America is more integrated, but still has a lot of racism. Japan is um, finally admitting that Ainu exist. Uh, possibly the Norwegian and Swedish relationship with the Sami has gotten better just because the social safety net applies to everyone. Would have to look into that one more. Not that Canada is doing great, just better than everyone else.
(03-12-2020, 05:57 PM)robkelk Wrote: Speaking of where I live: the Prime Minister of Canada has gone into quarantine, on the chance that his wife was exposed to COVID-19.
That means the most important national political meeting of the year (*) has been postponed, because somebody might be infected. Don't tell me you have to go to work with the sniffles -- the example being set is that you stay home if you're sick.
(*) The equivalent in the USA would be a working meeting between the President, all of the state and territorial Governors, and all of the Chiefs of the recognized tribes.
When I read that, my snarky comment I didn't share at the time was that such a gathering couldn't be an important meeting in the U.S. because Indian tribes were invited. Like, that's just outside the scope of what constitutes important down here.
Oh, and I think Abe could manage to push the constitutional change to have foreign armies, I just think that it's not the time. There's some value in being Switzerland of the east, and it's not worth the huge political capital to invest to change it right now.
But anyway, back to the topic of the day: Canada!
I'll just remind everyone that due to climate change, Canada will gain arable land, while the United States loses farmland.
I'm hoping that the lack of American leadership is only a temporary affair, though. I don't mind Canada having an increased role, as they did in the CPTPP, as well, some of the things the US was really pushing for in that deal were not what I wanted. I much, much prefer the CPTPP to the original TPP, and hope that we would be willing to join it as-is, or restoring the environmental protections. I guess I'm just more aligned with Canada, on everything except latitude.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Black Aeronaut - 03-24-2020
Canada. Good folks up there. Really nice people. Just too fraggin' cold and dark for me to want to live there.
(I swear that if someone somehow forced me to live there, I'd practically hibernate during the winter time, and God help the person that wakes me too early...)
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - robkelk - 03-24-2020
(03-23-2020, 10:58 PM)Labster Wrote: I honestly can't think of any country doing a better job with their indigenous minority than the First Nations have in Canada. Possibly Denmark comes close, but that has a whole other set of problems. Latin America is more integrated, but still has a lot of racism. Japan is um, finally admitting that Ainu exist. Uh, possibly the Norwegian and Swedish relationship with the Sami has gotten better just because the social safety net applies to everyone. Would have to look into that one more. Not that Canada is doing great, just better than everyone else.
Yeah. "Least worse" isn't exactly a good thing, but I'll take it... with the understanding that it still has to get better.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Pyeknu - 03-24-2020
While I'm personally no one to go crazy extolling Canada's virtues given our many faults - and Rob does an excellent job pointing them out - I've been watching the issues with how the several states below the 49th Parallel have had to fight hard to get the necessary supplies et al to ensure people survive the storm that's hitting us now with COVID-19.
And I thank God that Canada has the health care system it has.
It's nowhere near perfect, but given what Americans are forced to have, especially with the business moguls' reaction that helped propel Twumpy to power...!
If I didn't have access to the system we have when my right foot was amputated near the end of 2013, I don't know if I'd be ALIVE right now.
'Nuff said.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Labster - 03-25-2020
Hey, in our defense, the U.S. has the best health care system money can buy. You can buy the best doctors, the best care, the best treatments in the world. Just as long as you're willing to pay for it yourself. You'll be fine in this pandemic if you simply stay away from the poors. Um, well, the poors and CPAC.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - hazard - 03-25-2020
The poor, CPAC and Congress. Given that, you know, a good chunk of Congress was at CPAC and interacted with infected people and have themselves been confirmed as infected...
And to be honest 'The best money can buy' is not a brilliant endorsement for a health care system that needs to deal with an infectious disease that cares for class divides about as much as it cares about borders. Or a disease that gets rather lethal when there's no health care to be provided for any reason. The economy is perversely lucky that the most at risk group that will see the largest number of losses in this case is the elderly.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - classicdrogn - 03-25-2020
That is not a good way to solve the looming problem of a population top heavy with older workers nearing retirement age.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - hazard - 03-25-2020
Well, obviously. But it's an effective way to deal with the problem of an economy that needs to meet the pension burden and is either unable or unwilling to do so.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Star Ranger4 - 03-25-2020
as long as we are being so dark; let us not forget the Addicts and Homeless.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - robkelk - 03-25-2020
Homeless?
We give them places to live. At least, we do in some of our small towns - larger cities have yet to follow suit, despite the demonstrated savings in money.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Labster - 04-20-2020
But at least in the United States, our police don't go on rampages and kill random people. (It's not random if they're all dark-skinned, you see.)
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - nocarename - 04-20-2020
The individual in question - assuming that this is about the recent Nova Scotia killings - was not an officer of the law. He dressed up as a cop and he wanted to be a cop (according to Wikipedia) but he was not a member of law enforcement.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Black Aeronaut - 04-20-2020
(04-20-2020, 07:06 PM)nocarename Wrote: The individual in question - assuming that this is about the recent Nova Scotia killings - was not an officer of the law. He dressed up as a cop and he wanted to be a cop (according to Wikipedia) but he was not a member of law enforcement.
...... If this is the case, then I strongly suspect that there was a reason why he wasn't (allowed to be?) a cop.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - robkelk - 04-21-2020
And we already have a thread for that.
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Labster - 05-08-2020
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - robkelk - 05-08-2020
Well, if we're posting music by the Arrogant Worms (and, honestly, why shouldn't we?)... An oldie but a goodie:
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - Labster - 05-26-2021
But you can't afford to buy Justin Trudeau a real MacBook!
RE: A bit of flag-waving... - GethN7 - 07-24-2021
Rob, if you want to do a bit of LITERAL flag waving, saw this, where some Japanese artists gave national flags the anime treatment, and the Canada rep looks pretty good IMO:
![[Image: 5d107311bef0f-canada-min-1-5d0c874157684__700.jpg]](http://static.demilked.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/5d107311bef0f-canada-min-1-5d0c874157684__700.jpg)
Source: https://www.demilked.com/countries-as-anime-characters-tokyo-olympics-2020/