[Meta] [RFC] Fenspace 2022, take 2 - Printable Version +- Drunkard's Walk Forums (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums) +-- Forum: General (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Fenspace (http://www.accessdenied-rms.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=12) +--- Thread: [Meta] [RFC] Fenspace 2022, take 2 (/showthread.php?tid=2792) |
[Meta] [RFC] Fenspace 2022, take 2 - M Fnord - 08-15-2012 KJ Wrote:I thought we were trying to avoid grimdark... somehow the whole "slow heat death of hopes and dreams" and associated angst is even worse. Allright. I trust that by now everybody has had a chance to get chill, walk it off, whatever your favorite euphemism. So let's start again. The topic for discussion is moving the 'current date' up from 2014 to 2022. What happens in those intervening eight years? How has Fenspace changed? How has Earth changed? To kick things off, I'd like to quote a thing from the Candle in the Dark thread over on Spacebattles. I think this gives us a reasonable beginning point of reference: Nomar, from Spacebattles Wrote:The Boskone war ends in 2014. The war is important because it gives the Fenspace Convention credibility as a government on account of the Convention having done two very classical government–y things: it has enforced its monopoly on violence by waging a war. This means Fenspace is no longer viewed as the anarchic no–man's–land beyond the frontier where only complete nutters would go, it may be still a bit wild–westy but it's definitely a civilized place now. Also, by this time Fenspace has living space for rent, jobs to be filled and you can even buy regular commercial flights there (Swissair if I recall correctly). All in all, a recipe for a big immigration boom, especially if the first world's economy is still stagnating in the aftermath of the financial crisis (did that even happen in Fenspace? If not, why?). First contact happens in 2024, that's ten years for Fenspace to grow. Not very long, but quite enough if the economy is booming, especially given the miraculous properties of handwavium. Now, obviously the whole 'first contact' thing doesn't apply here, but let's take this as a start. Where do we go from here? Before we begin, I'd like to establish a ground rule: everything is mutable. Always in motion the future is, and we've got the luxury of changing things. Until we all agree, nothing we discuss here is locked into a permanent state. That goes for faction-specific stuff as well as more general concepts. If you're really wedded to a specific idea and you get called on it, be ready to back that idea up with an argument. Ready? You may begin at your leisure. Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information "I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!" - robkelk - 08-15-2012 On a meta level, it seems that every story that gets Noah Scott added to it becomes either a pissing match or a bloodbath... so I'm pushing that character off to the sidelines and letting more-likable characters represent StellviaCorp from now on. Unless you're named A.C. Peters, expect your characters to get replies from Yayoi or Jake or Takami when they call Stellvia for help, favours, or just to chat. I'm sick and tired of all the "high drama" on the SMOF-ML between Noah and Mal, or Noah and Ben, or Noah and pretty much anyone else. It isn't helping drive stories any more, and it isn't fun to write. Still meta: While a story needs some sort of conflict to be entertaining, that conflict does not need to be "man versus man." It can be "man versus himself" (which is how I'm marginalizing Noah), or "man versus the environment," or "man versus the unknown." I set up Season 2 so that we could get more "man versus the unknown" stories, but everybody seems wedded to "man versus man" stories... Nobody seems to have had any problems with the plans I posted for the Stellvians in the other thread, so I'm going to go with those, although particular dates may be adjusted depending on the needs of other Collective members. The faction/company is still going to exist, and I hope will bounce back that much stronger before The Last Noah Scott Story (13-15 April 2029); Noah's self-destruction is explained by my first paragraph in this posting. -- Rob Kelk "Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of the same sovereign, servants of the same law." - Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012 - M Fnord - 08-15-2012 robkelk Wrote:On a meta level, it seems that every story that gets Noah Scott added to it becomes either a pissing match or a bloodbath... so I'm pushing that character off to the sidelines and letting more-likable characters represent StellviaCorp from now on. Unless you're named A.C. Peters, expect your characters to get replies from Yayoi or Jake or Takami when they call Stellvia for help, favours, or just to chat. I'm sick and tired of all the "high drama" on the SMOF-ML between Noah and Mal, or Noah and Ben, or Noah and pretty much anyone else. It isn't helping drive stories any more, and it isn't fun to write. I'm going to suggest that if you want Noah to fade into the background, the best way to do it isn't to have the character self-destruct. That only brings him that much closer to the foreground - look at this shambling wreck of a man, who once flew so high yadda yadda. So, how do we do this? Well, instead of turning him into Charles Foster Kane just give him his happy ending; he fades into the background as CEO to spend more time with his family, Yayoi takes over as operating VP or however you want to handle it, roll credits. The company can still have problems, though they might not be as deeply personal if Noah isn't self-destructing. I've been considering walking back the stronger parts of the Soviet/Stellvian rift; it's an inevitability that friendship between a revolutionary socialist nation and a corporate state isn't a long-term thing, but to break it over the Catalog strikes me in retrospect as the height of hypocrisy. Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information "I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!" - firvulag - 08-15-2012 Let's see, the terraforming projects are going to be gearing back up, which will probably be major employers. For instance, the last test comet drop on Mars occurred in 2013 and 2060-2070 is the date range for when most of the water is supposed to be in place, so the selection of Kuiper belt and Oort cloud bodies for the main drops should be under way. Some of the comets may even be on their way in, although there's still a few decades for that to be worked out. Also, the next few Xavier constellations should be being flown in this time period, as the first constellation was finished in 2012. Some possible additions to the MTP time-line: August 2016 First four "Raindrops" series of Kuiper belt objects selected. November 2016 Raindrop 1's orbit adjusted, begins journey into the inner solar system under escort. January 2017 Raindrop 1 "arrives" on Mars. April 2019 With the artificial magnetosphere in place, if still weak, and the Raindrops series of comet drops proceeding, hardy algea-like plants are seeded at selected locations on Mars. May 2020 The long running grumbling by some Trekkies over Utopia Planitia's future coastline, enters a new phase when an exasperated Gear Head on the MTP, suggests they "build a dike". This kicks of a long running debate amongst the Federation Admiralty on the merits of dikes, vs underwater domed cities, vs land theft and floating continents. The MTP, initially delighted by the sudden drop off in Federation complaints, is less so when no fewer than 5 different proposals to save Utopia Planitia are presented to them along with requests for funding. -- "The idea of a king is good for their economy and that's what counts. That and we got away with our lives." -- Black Belt, 8-bit Theater - LynnInDenver - 08-15-2012 Quote:Economics in the BeltThis is just initial thoughts on the area that I've, well, basically had a slight role in filling out background on. Like I commented in the earlier thread, I'm fine with teething pains, and some of it will apply to JMC (& Jeph Antilles) as well. -- "You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor - Dartz - 08-15-2012 I was in the process of stamping this out since before yesterday. Although anything not explicity featured can and will be modified because I'm bound to come up with something better, or someone's bound to disagree with something. Chunks of this have appearred in Saber Chase and Raising Project, or might be background to it. Other elements are cribbed from Candle in the Dark, or unfinished remnants on the cutting room floor, or ideas barely fleshed out. Although considering the response to Shinji Ikari as of January 2023. An unfinished epilogue for Saber Chase showed the 4th Caster Gun, but the story was best left with the bar ending. . If anything, Noah's indirectly responsible for Shinji's positive development by knowing who to contact and who would be able to do the right thing. Hopefully the idea is that it comes across as a group of people gathering momentum with their lives and putting things together. Maybe a decade late or so but finally getting out there and getting things moving . Screwing a few things up along the way (a lack of foresight seems to be a common thread , they're at a more immature level where 'Screw it, Try it' is almost a mantra. ) and generally reaping what was sowed way back when someone Jet respects deeply told her that they will get what they deserve when the war is over. Quote:Jan 2014: Jet missed Port Phobos victory celebration due to mop up operations________________________________ --m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig? - Black Aeronaut - 08-15-2012 Hmmm... 2014 - After two years of relying on Hephaestus and Gnarlycurl for the majority of their aerospace solutions, Benjamin Rhodes establishes Black Aeronaut Technologies, LLC. The primary vision and goal of BAT is to provide the more discerning spacers amongst the fen with superior ships and craft (and in the process, supplement the military budget of the Roughriders). In a bold move, Benjamin also announced that all BAT designs are open source, however he also states, "But good luck getting them to be anywhere near our build quality." This proves not to be a boast as BAT's initial offerings of F-EZigs, Blackbird-, Peacemaker-, and Albatross-class ships prove to be more hardy and reliable than any of their competition. Soon enough, only BAT builds of their signature ships, the Blackbird and Peacemaker, can be found on the market. 2016 - With most of the SMOF contingent steadily fading into the background noise, Benjamin suddenly finds himself as Fenspace's most visible SMOF in all of Fenspace. This immediately places him in the hotseat as the second wave of the Occupy Movement comes up out of the gravity well. After Ben has the protesters sent back home in automated BAT-marked container ships, the passengers hack the controls and begin move on to other Fen settlements to further their Movement. Ben mishandles the situation slightly by having Gina and the A-Team intercept and forcibly redirect the container ships to Earth once more and the media has a field day with the matter. Only a timely assist by Noah hiring a crack-legal team keeps Ben from being tarred and feathered. However, this was only the first of such political disasters to come. BAT models introduced at that time:
BAT models introduced at that time:
I'll finish the rest later. For now, though, I need sleep and feedback. I understand that we don't want FS as a whole going down the path of angst, but on the other hand Benjamin and the Roughriders are too prime of a target for anyone that wants to make a power grab of some sort. They present an impendiment, but one that can be eliminated with ease through political maneuvering alone. However, the other SMOFs don't really like what happened and with Maico's help they investigate the matter thoroughly. From here, I figure we can do one of two things: 1) Ben and the Roughriders are fully cleared and are welcomed back by the Convention with open arms... or 2) Ben and the Roughriders are cleared of all wrongdoing... but Ben is warned not to reinstate his organization, the Convention feeling that less of a military presence is for the better and will set minds at ease. Ben pretty much tells the Convention where they can stick it and goes off to do his own thing with whoever is willing to follow. Either way, the Convention loses a major military asset and this can open the doors for a new conflict to arise... all, I think, less 'Slow Heat Death of the Universe Angst' and more 'Chiding Warning from Aesop'. - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 It occurs to me that where it already weighs millions of tons and has commensurate engine power, being a combination expedition base camp and icecube tug for the Martian oort body retreival project may serve to fill the 'curl's time in a more interesting way than "business as usual for 5yrs to save up enough for Castle Borealis." Being in a vague semi-leadership position for the Mars-based Gearheads, it behooves them to take an interest in the terraforming project, adding the twin engine for that at first. -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 (That would be 2015 to 2020, when a dedicated tug is put into service and they go back to spending most of the time in the high traffic inner system to build custom back up and do the expansion, the have the completed Borealis finished off for the new season in 2022 as previously stated.) WRT Roughriders - they're hardly the only military group around, I mean you've got Warsies and Trekkies, all the buyers of your export model VF-1s, all the gearheads who roll their own (and there's enough Gundamaniacs -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 AEUG subgrouping with a good sized station in earth orbit if I read the wiki right) the Patrol and assosciate GJ members, the Senshi, the Jossies, Browncoats, and Heinleiners... the only way I see it becoming an issue is if someone goes out of their way to stir up FUD against them. Gearhead product to replace some of the lost assembly business: VF-dockable hab module, constructed to clamp the cockpit and upper front of jet form into a recess on the lower side. Small SS class, suits 1-4, modularly gangable -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows - Ace Dreamer - 08-15-2012 Is anyone involved in the CHON shipping business, please? Is this Jupiter Mining territory? Logically, I'd assume there is a triangle route, from Venus, freezing carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, to Titan orbiting Saturn, using nitrogen from the atmosphere to convert the carbon dioxide into ammonium nitrate and carbon, then to Luna, where the NH4NO3 and elemental carbon is sold as 'solid air' and lunar regolith is shipped to Venus. The "Solid Air" product (and 'free' simple waved devices that process it) are then shipped from Luna all over the Solar System. In theory you could use Terran atmosphere as the source of nitrogen, but this is politically infeasible ("They're Stealing Our Air!"), and Terra has quite a few laws about ammonium nitrate, due to its use in making (improvised) explosives. I can see CHOAM would like this business, but I'd think there were lots of smaller contractors in the "Air Trade Triangle". I'd like to propose that the Air Trade becomes important in the 2012-2022 period. META: Air Trade ships are big and slow, most raiders wont bother them unless they are really desperate. But, maybe you could have some interesting stories set on them, if they are significant. The Fenspace equivalent of oil tankers, or maybe tramp steamers. -- "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind - KJ - 08-15-2012 Hmm. BA, I have some thoughts on downscaling of military capabilities and the inadvisability thereof. I don't like a path that leads to all of us sitting around Up There going "oh, hay, everything is going to be all right!" nor one that is chasing away people enmasse. I'm having in mind the transition to a "peacetime" military having something like the UN or NATO, but a lot less toothless... something where the factions agree to limitations on strategic arms that they keep under their chain of command (I call it the PEPPER treaty) with everyone rotating the rest into and out of the joint chain of command dealie as they see fit, still developing whatever they want, etcetera. Fundamentally, instead of ostracism, I at least would like/prefer something happening along the order of "... whoa. Okay guys, let's take a step back here and consider if maybe we all need to have a bit more oversight of each other on use of force." You know, the sort of messy political/bureaucratic compromise that routinely annoys everyone involved but ends up mostly working. Details to be hammered out. - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 There's not a whole lot to see or do for most of the trip to the oort and back, even if you plot a cometary course to wind past inner system locations where possible. Building one of their engine shells (a bit smaller than the 'curl's) on the way out, then melting enough ice to fill it with water and 'wave growth medium so the starter samples are at operational levels by the time it arrives at Mars gives you a drive with a minimal engine room attached, at which point all you need is a 'waved house trailer -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 and a spaceframe big enough to carry a few hundred thousand to a million tons or so of the trade materials (we reccomend speaking with Hepheasteus) and something to keep the CO2 frozen on that leg (frigidium sump chiller?) to have a big, poky freighter as ordered. There's air in them thar hills, someone will front the construction cost and fly it. Not trying to hog the terraforming action, but if they're involved in one end... besides, I'm not exeptionally storioactive, more filling in background roles. -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 Also, I agree with KJ even if I didn't put so eloquently before - bad things happen to disarmed populations. PEPPER Treaty = People Everywhere Proper Preparedness Equipment Rotation? Maybe something else for the second e -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows UBA = United Belters Association? - Ace Dreamer - 08-15-2012 Quote:Dartz wrote:Is the UBA the "United Belters Association"? If they are important in their interaction with Frigga, I'd be interested in knowing a bit more about them, their aims and objectives, and why they object to what's done on Frigga... -- "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" - Hawkwind - KJ - 08-15-2012 I didn't have anything actually in mind for what it stands for... I was just making fun of the RL Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty (SALT). I was half imagining the PEPPER acronym to be Space Arms Limitation Treaty (PEPPER) for amusement's sake. Mebbe we need a separate thread for 2022-ish military stuff brainstorming, as that seems more specialized than this. - classicdrogn - 08-15-2012 From a practical, training and readiness standpoint, rotating combat effective equipment and personnel through an active space patrol makes sense - everyone gets regular practice and experience, without the burnout risk of long service, and time and facilities to perform major equipment maintainance. As a militia style service it would be far more uneven than regulars, but with handwavium in the equasion that's kind of a given anyway, hence the 'danes distrust of it. -- "Anko, what you do in your free time is your own choice. Use it wisely. And if you do not use it wisely, make sure you thoroughly enjoy whatever unwise thing you are doing." - HymnOfRagnorok as Orochimaru at SpaceBattles woot Med. Eng., verb, 1st & 3rd pers. prsnt. sg. know, knows - LynnInDenver - 08-15-2012 @AceDreamer: Inner planet shipping is handled by Hermes and CHOAM, although JMC does have a significant presence there as well, just nowhere near the overwhelming majority. And you still do have the independent shippers everywhere. And regrding the trio of UBA raids on Frigga... it was intended to be secret, and it was intended to try to force Frigga to join with them, in terms of "we can provide protection, but we have to be paid to do it". It was a classic case of attempted extortion. During the height of it, since JMC wasn't about to play ball, either, rather than raiding, UBA broke contract, then made all sorts of messy noises about the materials still in JMC warehouses, basically trying to force JMC to have to dismantle several weeks worth of shipping to return it in what they claimed would be a "timely manner", with the resulting public relations clusterfuck that would be for JMC regarding everyone else. -- "You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor - M Fnord - 08-15-2012 Quote:I understand that we don't want FS as a whole going down the path of angst, but on the other hand Benjamin and the Roughriders are too prime of a target for anyone that wants to make a power grab of some sort. Question: Why are you so dead-set on martyrdom? That's the running theme I keep picking up on in your material, and I don't really understand why you feel the need to make the Roughriders into some sort of ~*~example~*~ for the mean nasty politicians to pick on. Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information "I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!" - HRogge - 08-15-2012 Lets have a look into my timetable... CI is a new group as they were founded in 2015... at the moment the timeline concentrates mostly on CI itself, because nearly no one else was writing stories in the 2015-2020 period. But I would like to change that so CI has some more interaction with other groups and factions in Fenspace. So if someone has ideas or suggestions, I am happy to listen. 2015 - CI is founded after the refugees from Nehallenia manage to get a contract with the PKG about a new recon drone. Soon after receiving the money, they start working on Jenga. CI gets the job from GJ to work on a sensor system to detect memory modifications from Quattros tech (most of the founding members are victims of the tech, so they have a lot people to scan ^^). 2016 - 'The Exocomp Incident'. The non-sapient construction drones of CI wake up and create the sapient group-mind AI Serina. CI license a modified Exocomp design to the Trekkies to get a reliable influx of money (and to avoid a direct conflict about "stealing fandom"). Later this year a part of the Tanglewood Boys tries to raid Jenga, they are barely hold away until help arrives. 2017 - CI and the Roughriders builds a companion drone for the RR veritechs. The design is later reused by CI to build the large drones of the Normandy Class. CI is hired by ESA to help them constructing the space station on Saturn. 2018 - Maiden flight of the Normandy... which is given to Shepard/Space-Patrol because of a quirk. 2019 - The Little Big Bang Labs are split from Jenga and move out of the Limit... first to interstellar space, then to Nostromo. 2020 - 5th year anniversary party of CI. At the end of the year the second Normandy Class is finished, the Serenity Valley. 2022 - Third Normandy Class is finished (and named "Dark Tower"). CI begins to examine Frigga for building a copy of their manufacturing system there. --------------- Open questions: whats happens to the Companion Drone program with the RR? What other relations have CI with the rest of Fenspace? About the "disarming" thing... CI is slowly but steadily arming "up" since the Tanglewood Boys attack in 2016. Jenga gets quite a few point defense guns and "space drone sized" Exocomps in 2017-2022. Jenga also assumed to have one larger weapon system. The spinal mount gun of the Normandy Class is definitely no civil weapon system too and punch harder than its 88mm caliber would suggest. - M Fnord - 08-15-2012 Ace Dreamer Wrote:Is the UBA the "United Belters Association"? It's a long story, but here's the tl;dr: The United Belt Alliance started out as a co-op of independent Belt miners who banded together to better compete with Rockhounds. Somewhere in the post-war period the co-op was taken over by a group of nasty sociopathic yuppies who turned the UBA into a protection racket, sign on the dotted line and hand over a tithe of your production or else. Frigga's a target because it is/was an asteroid mine and it's independent of Rockhounds, UBA or any other large faction. Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information "I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!" - Dartz - 08-15-2012 It started as a form of ambulance chasing, showing up on the doorstep after a genuine attack after offering membership. Eventually someone figured out that if they paid mercenaries to attack, and were careful not to have it linked back... they'd generate far more ambulances to chase. It's more a scam than outright extortion.... closer to the peddlars of fake anti-virus software than a bunch of heavies smashing up the place. They generated the threat of attacks by quietly hiring mercenaries to launch light raids against unprotected settlements. Shortly after each raid, a representative would approach the residents and offer membership. If they joined, the attacks seemed to stop and membership seemed to be worthwile. If they didn't, a few months later the attacks escalated in boldness and deadliness. They were smart enough not to pull it on anywhere that seemed like it might be able to fight back, or had some obvious hard assets who might get annoyed, and generally skim things below the radar to avoid attracting attention. The vast majority of the membership and administration had little to no idea this was actually going on, even the protection salesmen often thought it was just another ambulance to chase. They just understimated the residents of Frigga.... and planned to just a superficial raid to wreck the place and run away before they could be removed or captured. It went south when they picked the worst day to launch their raid. ________________________________ --m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig? - HRogge - 08-15-2012 Dartz Wrote:They just understimated the residents of Frigga.... and planned to just a superficial raid to wreck the place and run away before they could be removed or captured. It went south when they picked the worst day to launch their raid. Hitting a place where one of the heavy "close combat fighters" of GJ choose to life was also STUPID. - LynnInDenver - 08-15-2012 Quote:HRogge wrote:Perhaps they missed a trick somewhere? Yeah, seems like it wasn't the brightest of ideas. Thankfully for them, they didn't make that same mistake when trying to extort JMC... that surely would have gotten GJ and possibly RR sniffing around and tracking down what was going on, with heavily armed backup, attention they really didn't want. -- "You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor |