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Chapter Five Released
Re: *ME TOO!*
#26
While I admit that I'm not familiar with In Nomine game mechanics, if Megumi could sense Mara's discordant part of the local symphony then shouldn't Mara, who is orders of magnitude more powerful than Megumi, have also heard a mortal servant of a goddess in her immediate vicinity?
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"Anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough." - The DM of the Rings XXXV
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Re: *ME TOO!*
#27
Maybe Mara had simply tuned it out the symphony in her spate of spite?*********
Touched By His Noodly Appendage
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Re: *ME TOO!*
#28
I suspect that a being's power has an effect on their 'volume'. Mara being a class 1 is far louder that Megumi.
Additionally, I would assume that Megumi's personal tune blends into the backgroud music much better than Mara's.
Finally, Mara wasn't expecting to run into any of Heaven's agents except Chris and the Norns (and maybe Peorth). It's possible that she would have sensed and reacted had she heard one of their songs.__________________
666-HELL The phone number of the Beast
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin
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Re: *ME TOO!*
#29
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I suspect that a being's power has an effect on their 'volume'. Mara being a class 1 is far louder that Megumi.
Yes.
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Additionally, I would assume that Megumi's personal tune blends into the backgroud music much better than Mara's.
See - that's the whole thing with Demons. The very thing that makes them demons is that they are at ODDS with the symphony.
Think of a finely tuned orchestra doing Beethoven's 9th. It's all these instruments perfectly timed and played to produce something greater then themselves. Is there much improvisation? Meh... A bit, but nothing that clashes. (That's what makes it worth getting different recordings of the same symphony by different orchestras in real life. They put their own spin on it.)
A minor demon or servitor like Sembei then, is the celestial equivalent of the guy in the third row who waits for the quiet section to do a really loud fart.
A MAJOR Demon, like Mara, has as a driving ambition, metaphorically speaking, the goal of riding down the aisle on her Harley Davidson, hopping off and unslinging the stratocaster, drop the portable amp and lay down Jimi Hendrix's version of the Star Spangled banner. Oh, and the guitar is going to be purposefully out of tune, too.
Another thing with demons - none of them have any intention of playing together nicely. They are all too much into their own "personal" symphony (or rock solo, to follow the previous metaphor) and can't even hear each other, much less the symphony as a whole.
This is my understanding of the elements that have been taken from the In Nomine universe.-Logan
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"Wake up! Time for SCIENCE!"
-Adam Savage
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#30
Hey folks -- sorry, but I've been away from the forums for most of the weekend. Let me see if I can catch up on comments where Chris hasn't already addressed them.
Rob Kelk wrote:
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If I'd known you were going to use that theme for the quotes at the beginning, I would have sent you this one earlier.
Nice... Thanks, I've stashed it against future use. I've got my quote nominees for chapter 6 already selected, but who knows?
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That's the biggest surprise of the chapter, for me -- Doug's part of the local Symphony. Go figure...
Why wouldn't he show up? He's an "instrument", so to speak, and he's not discordant in the sense a demon would be. Whether he blends in or is slightly out-of-step is something maybe to be determined, but for the purposes of the story it's really not important.
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I hate to say it, but you might need to make a Concordance entry for this one. There are actually some poor unfortunate souls who've never heard of Abbot and Costello, alas...
You know, I never thought of that. Yeesh.
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Megumi's hearing protectors are removed twice, and her safety goggles aren't removed at all. (And "ripped off her the hearing protectors" has an extra word.)
Not at all -- I caught it myself about midday on Friday, and it's one of several changes I made before posting the chapter to the twin FFMLs. Thanks for the catch, though!
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I thought it was called "jan-ken-pon"...
Looks like it's one of those "spell it like you want" phrases. I've seen "pow" in fics for years, Google shows that and a "po" variant, as well as the "pon". I think we're going to stand by "pow" for now.
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Why am I hearing this in a mock '40s-era Bugs Bunny voice?
Because you are a wise and perceptive man.
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Oh, shit. It's that powerful?
No, not really. As NomadEngineer noted, they are mostly one-way, and it's blowing through the weaker side. It's also not so much a matter of pure power as something like armor piercing (but don't take that literally). The wards came down mostly because it knocked out the underpinnings from the backside, not because it overpowered them.
Kokuten wrote:
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"Except for Belldandy, of course."

Of course!
I should probably note that Helen, as part of her preread comments, said, "And Hexe, right? Right?"

Chris replied to Rob:
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Actually, that's more an effect of Paradox's presence in the Symphony, and his agitation.
Precisely. He's broadcasting, and she's close enough to pick it up.
Hoagie of Doom wrote:
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Now then, mister quarterstaff, what might you be, hmmm?
Basic technical specs and origin as well as at least one name will be made available as part of the next chapter.
zero sum mgame wrote:
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One minor kvetch. Every copy I can find of the lyrics to "Closer to Fine" uses 'definitive', not 'divinity'.
Geeze. That quote has been in my file for years, and it never occurred to me to confirm that I didn't have a mondegreen before using it. Though I should note that Helen, who introduced me to the Indigo Girls, didn't catch it either.
I guess I'll have to remove that from the chapter...
Bluemage wrote:
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That... was absolutely fantastic!
Thank you!
DHBirr wrote:
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And if the gods are enemies of humanity, then their Soldiers and Servitors -- and ordinary clergy, too -- are traitors in the service of a hostile power. How will the gods react when a coalition of mages starts hunting down and killing Servitors for their treason against the human species?
As Chris notes, not bloody likely. While Doug's got his own personal power level going for him here, the staff is what's key.
More on this later.

Okay, I'm out of time right now -- when I next get a chance, probably at lunch, I'll pick up with Morganni's post.

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
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Re: *ME TOO!*
#31
Okay, picking up as promised, in the last 15 minutes or so of my lunch hour...
Morganni said:
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And on thinking about it some more... Well, I've only had one relatively cursory read through the IN rules, but it seems like "servitor" in this story is pretty much equivalent to "soldier" in the game. With "soldier" in the story being something with no direct counterpart. Or at least it didn't sound to me like soldiers in IN lost their free will to the degree that everyone is so upset about.
Yes, I think I've said it elsewhere, but Chris and I have been playing fast-and-loose with the In Nom rules on this point. We had both independently (as I recall) come up with the same basic idea that there had to be more "ranks" than just Soldier -- plus we wanted to work Megumi's mad-on for Mara into this. So we postulated a "gofer" type servant who normally didn't get empowered for direct combat. Megumi got sworn in as one of these -- and got a Force anyway. Note that it wasn't Skuld who took the oath, but the Maiden, the metalevel being who "plays" Skuld in this universe. The Maiden then did something unexpected.
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while at work tonight I was seized by an irrational desire to refer to... whatever that thing is Doug's using... as the "thwack'em stick". (It's too effective to be the "stick of pain".) ... hopefully it'll get a real name at some point
Oh, it will. It in fact has two names in my notes, both given to it by Doug. It has no name right now, except perhaps for an index/catalogue number.
Shepherd said:
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While I admit that I'm not familiar with In Nomine game mechanics, if Megumi could sense Mara's discordant part of the local symphony then shouldn't Mara, who is orders of magnitude more powerful than Megumi, have also heard a mortal servant of a goddess in her immediate vicinity?
Timote and Logan have the right of this -- Megumi is minor, little more than an ordinary human in the cosmic scheme of things, and fits into the "background". If Mara were actively looking for Heavenly agents, she'd eventually be able to pick Megumi out, but she's not -- she's too busy indulging in sadism to consider that there might be a heavenly agent present who was never there before. And as a Demon First Class, Mara's personal symphony is like an air horn going off during a string quartet -- you can't miss it, if you can hear the Symphony at all.

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#32
(Doug being part of the local Symphony)
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Why wouldn't he show up? He's an "instrument", so to speak, and he's not discordant in the sense a demon would be. Whether he blends in or is slightly out-of-step is something maybe to be determined, but for the purposes of the story it's really not important.
I was under the impression that the Symphony was made up of elements which belong on Earth, especially the humans. Doug doesn't belong on this particular Earth.
To use the musical instrument analogy, I had thought Doug's like an electric guitar - probably a Flying Vee just because he's that cool - while the OMB world's Symphony was more of a jazz/R&B ensemble (with all the wonderful improvisation implied by that). One doesn't usually expect those two to mesh...
There's also the fact that you'd established neither Yggdrasil nor its infernal counterpart had a file on Doug. This implied to me that he might be a void in the local super-natural environment, and thus not show up in the local Symphony.
But, hey, it's your world - I was merely surprised that my assumption was wrong.

-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Oops
#33
My bad. But I did tell you my preread was cursory and that I would try again later, but before later came for me you had posted. Smile Hexe's the Goddess here, not me, and infallibility was never one of her powers anyway. Smile
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Re: Oops
#34
Not your bad, Helen -- I never expected anyone to proof the quotes after all. I was more saying that if it slipped by you, it could have far more easily slipped by me.

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
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Re: Oops
#35
Rob wrote:
Quote:
I was under the impression that the Symphony was made up of elements which belong on Earth, especially the humans. Doug doesn't belong on this particular Earth.
To use the musical instrument analogy, I had thought Doug's like an electric guitar - probably a Flying Vee just because he's that cool - while the OMB world's Symphony was more of a jazz/R&B ensemble (with all the wonderful improvisation implied by that). One doesn't usually expect those two to mesh...
There's also the fact that you'd established neither Yggdrasil nor its infernal counterpart had a file on Doug. This implied to me that he might be a void in the local super-natural environment, and thus not show up in the local Symphony.
But, hey, it's your world - I was merely surprised that my assumption was wrong.
Well I don't know much about In Nom, but when one says symphony I tend to imagine a vast symphony of musicians playing a complicated score, and Doug's equilivent would be a musician who walks in from off stage a quarter of the way through the movement and begins adding his own contribution to the overall symphony Big Grin
Hmm by the way when Megumi listens to Doug's ehh.. symphonic composition, she lists three different types of instruments, does this mean Doug's metatalent presents itself as an instrument in the symphony?_______________________________
We're definitely playing this game wrong. I thought Vampire was supposed to be a game of personal horror, not about ninja magic-carpet airstrikes at night.
- A friend after playing a session of Dark Ages Vampire.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. THERE IS ONLY WAR!
-Same friend.
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Re: Oops
#36
No, not really. We were using the selection and number of instruments rather loosely, mostly suggesting personality; although there is a kind of implication that more instruments = more power, it wasn't something we really quantified -- this was more feel than numbers. And individual instruments in an individual's personal Symphony do not correspond to, um, subsystems or subunits of that person.

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#37
Bob Schroeck wrote:
Geeze. That quote has been in my file for years, and it never occurred to me to confirm that I didn't have a mondegreen before using it. Though I should note that Helen, who introduced me to the Indigo Girls, didn't catch it either.
I guess I'll have to remove that from the chapter...
****
If you want to keep it, you could call it the version of the song from Doug's world, a la the Billy Joel lyrics from DWII. I like the quote, mondegreen or not. It -works-.
Also, since I forgot to mention it, massive old-school bonus points for quoting Chris Davies.
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#38
I dunno. The Billy Joel stuff had a story/plot purpose. This really doesn't. Excusing my mistake like that rubs me wrong.
And thanks.

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#39
Hmmm. Rereading the posts on this thread regarding the nature of Doug's contribution to "the Symphony" abruptly brought to mind "The Music of the Ainur" from The Silmarillion -- particularly the way Melkor kept trying to add his own clashing theme, and each time, Iluvatar made it work with the rest. I don't think that's what anyone here was getting at; I was just free-associating with the music metaphor and thought, what the hell, it's sort-of worth mentioning. A little. Almost. Shutting up now.
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Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#40
In Nomine Tolkien might be a nifty little writeup...
--Sam
...Archangels of Dance, the Hunt, Grief, Strength, and Memory... yeah, just about as offbeat as the canon setup.
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Re: Re: Chapter Five Released
#41
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In Nomine Tolkien might be a nifty little writeup...
Steve Jackson wants more e23 releases... Is Middle-Earth in public domain yet?

-Rob Kelk
"Read Or Die: not so much a title as a way of life." - Justin Palmer, 6 June 2007
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Re: Re: Chapter Five Released
#42
Hmmm. Serves me right for not checking here more often, but I ended up learning about Chapter 5 when it showed up on RAAC.
I'm still working my way through it, but one thing I noticed that hasn't been commented on here *or* in the Concordance:
Apparently, Paradox has run out of regular deities to take their names in vain, and has started on Transformers? ;-) To quote: "Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. Primus, you've made a fundamental assumption here --" ...or was this just using 'Primus' as something that should be followed by Secondus, rather than a reference to either the Transformers deity or the band?

Reading further, another question comes to mind--why did Urd end up with the Tenchi-ken in a junk-box? ;-)
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#43
Whoa...ever have one of those 'sledgehammer revelations'?
I was pondering the 'free will' argument between Paradox and Doug, and how completely Paradox lost it because of a single error in presumption that Doug probably only realizes subconciously, and Paradox can't see the forest for the trees to realize...namely, the idea that Kami-sama is actually the one running the show. ;-)
Then it hit me--if you know Mercedes Lackey's work, in a way this is coming full circle, cosmology-wise, from the unpublished first Step to Velgarth (Hmmm. I'm presuming Doug didn't get to study the big picture there, just Alberich's view on it...) If you've read the last several books in the series, it's revealed that all the various deities of that world are actually *one* pair (and even that might be in doubt, really--it may be just one showing male and female aspects), with aspects of Maiden, Mother, Crone, and Warrior, interpreted different ways. Now in the AMG setting we once again have the Three...and what's Paradox's basic job relative to them? ;-)
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#44
Guardian.
ETA: Oh, and Doug managed to get around a little in Velgarth. He got as far as the Hardonan border at one point, and he also stumbled across some Shin'a'in lore while he was out and about. (He wasn't locked down in the Collegium for the whole time he was there -- he was a guest and had free rein to roam the countryside if he wanted.)

-- Bob
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The Internet Is For Norns.
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#45
As stated in OMB, Paradox is the Protector of the Norns.
There's a lot more to that than we've revealed so far.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"
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Re: Chapter Five Released
#46
*nod* Which, in the Shin'a'in version at least, is pretty much what the Warrior aspect *is*--guardian, and avenger as needed. Though this also makes me wonder--is Paradox (once he comes into his *full* power, anyway) an equal to his 'sisters'...in particular, does he have the ability to veto/trump one of their actions, particularly that of Atropos/Crone/Skuld? If so, might be interesting if he and Doug ever compared notes on that. ;-)
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