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Writing help?
Writing help?
#1
So how to put this?

I haz ideas... and am not OpMegs or Logan or Bob for that matter. Ideas for character snippets and whatnot relating to CoH/V. 

Would someone mind helping me flesh them out? For example, I just scribbled out a little something to hook into that foundation idea of Acyl... which was already part of my characters backstory but it fits so well goddamit I need to get it out now! 

The issue is... I look at the scribbles and.... its a hot mess. It needs more something. What that something is.... I got no clue. 

Does anyone have a spare five minutes to read and then laugh at this attempt at verbiage?


Attached Files
.txt   story2.txt (Size: 5.43 KB / Downloads: 7)
Just as I knew all of Life's Answers... they changed all the Questions!!
Quote:
There is one thing you don't put in a trap, if you're smart, if you value your continued existance, if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow, there is one thing you never, ever put in a trap.
And what would that be sir?
Me.
- Dr Who
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RE: Writing help?
#2
Hm... Well, for one thing, I'd suggest switching the narration to past tense, both as a matter of convention and to set it apart a little more from the dialogue. You could also stand to add a little more narration overall, even if it's mostly just one dude giving a speech he could stand up, walk around, or look at various people in the room, or gesture for emphasis or at a visual aid. It's not bad as is and present tense narration is hardly wrong in and of itself, but those are what spring to mind.
--
‎noli esse culus
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RE: Writing help?
#3
(05-21-2019, 06:02 AM)classicdrogn Wrote: Hm... Well, for one thing, I'd suggest switching the narration to past tense, both as a matter of convention and to set it apart a little more from the dialogue. You could also stand to add a little more narration overall, even if it's mostly just one dude giving a speech he could stand up, walk around, or look at various people in the room, or gesture for emphasis or at a visual aid. It's not bad as is and present tense narration is hardly wrong in and of itself, but those are what spring to mind.

Thanks. Smile
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RE: Writing help?
#4
*clearing throat*

Define "help" for me if you would, please. 

I am intrigued to see where this is going and would gladly read more BUUUUUUT it does need some work.
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RE: Writing help?
#5
These are general writing comments rather than concept ones. If you'd like to talk concept, we can do that, but I figured that's a separate discussion. Tongue

As a disclaimer, most of what I write is boring non-fiction, so take my advice with a pinch of salt, etc.

Speaking from that perspective, I have one point here. You might want to consider doing an editing pass for flow and readability.

One old trick, used especially by broadcast journalists, is to actually read out what you're writing. Read it out loud. If you don't want to pretend you're a news reader or audiobook narrator, then at least mumble or mouth the lines to yourself. This helps in figuring out where to break up sentences, or where the natural pauses might come in. This is crucial when writing actual spoken dialogue, but it also helps improve clarity of third person omniscient narration. 

There are automated tools which will rank your writing on a 'readability index'. Of course, automated ways of calculating this aren't a perfect gauge. But, at a glance, there's areas where you could use more commas to break up sentences... or places where fewer commas may be better, and you might instead want a longer chunk divided up into shorter sentences. 

Increasing how 'cleanly' your prose reads will go a long way. For many people, the mechanical flow of the text is what they really notice, not things like style.

Issac Asimov once wrote that if you need to describe the sun coming up in the morning... you write 'the sun came up in the morning', plain and simple. Maximum clarity. You don't want the reader to get bogged down in fancy language or structure. He even argued that writers should avoid using metaphor and simile where possible. Of course, even Asimov didn't strictly follow his own rule, since there's definitely examples of lyrical language or descriptions in his stories.

Taking off my professional hat and putting on the 'shitty fanfiction author' fedora, looking at it from a fiction perspective, I have three comments.

Firstly, ClassicDrogn is correct about past tense being the expected thing for this kind of sequence. But, of course, people do work with present tense structure as well. That alone isn't a dealbreaker, really.

Secondly, you may also want to consider what perspective the scene is coming from. Third person omniscient narrator is all fine and well, but often even a third person sequence is still broadly following someone's point of view.  If the intent is to paint a picture of the scene from the viewpoint of a theoretical audience member, listening to the speech, then you can play that aspect up more.

Conversely, you do have a bit at the end where the character - who's clearly the actual main character of this bit - speaking in an aside to an associate. They're saying something which isn't part of the main speech. This suggests that either you want a section break... that is to say, present the earlier 'speech' portion of the text more from the point of view of the audience, then the private conversation separately, from the character's perspective... or maybe rejig the entire speech section so it is from the character's own point of view. Still third person, mind you, if you like, but even third person omniscient can delve into the character's own thoughts.

Thirdly, it's also challenging to write a speech or public address. I'm not even talking about the actual content of it, here - I'm talking about presenting it to the reader in the context of the story. First of all, following strict grammar rules regarding use of quotation marks, open and closed inverted commas, this is not formatted correctly. If dialogue runs across multiple paragraphs, you should be ending paragraphs without a quotation mark, though the next paragraph of full dialogue would start with a quotation mark. Yes, this can look weird, but that is the rule. 

One way around that problem, and also to break up the monotony of a speech, is to describe what the speaker is doing as they present their address. Leaning forward. Raising their voice at certain points. Gesturing. I'll link my own terrible fanfic at this point to illustrate what I mean - it's likely not the best example in the world, but it is what I have on hand.
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RE: Writing help?
#6
(05-23-2019, 11:56 PM)Acyl Wrote: These are general writing comments rather than concept ones. If you'd like to talk concept, we can do that, but I figured that's a separate discussion. Tongue

As a disclaimer, most of what I write is boring non-fiction, so take my advice with a pinch of salt, etc.

Speaking from that perspective, I have one point here. You might want to consider doing an editing pass for flow and readability.

One old trick, used especially by broadcast journalists, is to actually read out what you're writing. Read it out loud. If you don't want to pretend you're a news reader or audiobook narrator, then at least mumble or mouth the lines to yourself. This helps in figuring out where to break up sentences, or where the natural pauses might come in. This is crucial when writing actual spoken dialogue, but it also helps improve clarity of third person omniscient narration. 

There are automated tools which will rank your writing on a 'readability index'. Of course, automated ways of calculating this aren't a perfect gauge. But, at a glance, there's areas where you could use more commas to break up sentences... or places where fewer commas may be better, and you might instead want a longer chunk divided up into shorter sentences. 

Increasing how 'cleanly' your prose reads will go a long way. For many people, the mechanical flow of the text is what they really notice, not things like style.

Issac Asimov once wrote that if you need to describe the sun coming up in the morning... you write 'the sun came up in the morning', plain and simple. Maximum clarity. You don't want the reader to get bogged down in fancy language or structure. He even argued that writers should avoid using metaphor and simile where possible. Of course, even Asimov didn't strictly follow his own rule, since there's definitely examples of lyrical language or descriptions in his stories.

Taking off my professional hat and putting on the 'shitty fanfiction author' fedora, looking at it from a fiction perspective, I have three comments.

Firstly, ClassicDrogn is correct about past tense being the expected thing for this kind of sequence. But, of course, people do work with present tense structure as well. That alone isn't a dealbreaker, really.

Secondly, you may also want to consider what perspective the scene is coming from. Third person omniscient narrator is all fine and well, but often even a third person sequence is still broadly following someone's point of view.  If the intent is to paint a picture of the scene from the viewpoint of a theoretical audience member, listening to the speech, then you can play that aspect up more.

Conversely, you do have a bit at the end where the character - who's clearly the actual main character of this bit - speaking in an aside to an associate. They're saying something which isn't part of the main speech. This suggests that either you want a section break... that is to say, present the earlier 'speech' portion of the text more from the point of view of the audience, then the private conversation separately, from the character's perspective... or maybe rejig the entire speech section so it is from the character's own point of view. Still third person, mind you, if you like, but even third person omniscient can delve into the character's own thoughts.

Thirdly, it's also challenging to write a speech or public address. I'm not even talking about the actual content of it, here - I'm talking about presenting it to the reader in the context of the story. First of all, following strict grammar rules regarding use of quotation marks, open and closed inverted commas, this is not formatted correctly. If dialogue runs across multiple paragraphs, you should be ending paragraphs without a quotation mark, though the next paragraph of full dialogue would start with a quotation mark. Yes, this can look weird, but that is the rule. 

One way around that problem, and also to break up the monotony of a speech, is to describe what the speaker is doing as they present their address. Leaning forward. Raising their voice at certain points. Gesturing. I'll link my own terrible fanfic at this point to illustrate what I mean - it's likely not the best example in the world, but it is what I have on hand.

Those are very good points. Many thanks. Its very much appreciated and very helpful. As I said it was rough - very rough.

I'm now in the process of doing a complete re-write... and I'm going to do yet another pass with the above points in mind. 

Life is going to be rather full for the next few days but when I get a free moment (HA!) I intend to sit down and knock it into shape.
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RE: Writing help?
#7
As a dual-threat fan/pro writer and host of the forums, I really ought to chip in with my two cents' worth, but unfortunately I've been a bit too busy and disorganized over the past few days to sit down and read it yet. (And given that Memorial Day is upon us here in the states and I've been volunteered to host/cook the annual family barbeque on Monday, that's not going to stop soon.) Until I can, in lieu of giving you specific advice on your story, Shader, I'll point you at the writer's guide I've been slowly compiling over the years, in the hopes that you can find something of use in it.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
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