2020 US election - The fat lady is warming up in the wings

[Bob Schroeck]

Televangelist Pat Robertson says Biden won, admits Trump lives in "alternate reality", urges 'erratic' Trump to retire

[Bob Schroeck]

After threats of lawsuits from voting machine companies, Newsmax broadcasts two-minute "here's where we lied" video

[Bob Schroeck]

On the subject of lawsuits, The NAACP has filed a lawsuit accusing Trump, his campaign, and the Republican National Committee of violating both the Voting Rights Act and the Ku Klux Klan Act.

[hazard]

You know you've got it made as an organization when there's a law named after you.

[Bob Schroeck]

Trump insiders report he's hunkered down and entertaining ever-more-bizarre ways to keep the Presidency -- to the point that even Guiliani is talking him down from some of the more extreme ideas.

[classicdrogn]

Well, I suppose if they carry him out of the White House in a hug-me jacket that's almost as good as handcuffs...

[Bob Schroeck]

Trump is turning on and lashing out at everyone and anyone.

[hazard]

And none of Trump's actions are surprising to those who paid even a modicum of attention at his conduct.

[Black Aeronaut]

At this point, I'm halfway expecting that he's gonna start screaming something about "Rosebud".

[robkelk]

At this point, I'm halfway expecting that he's gonna start screaming something about "Rosebud".

Or to order a thorough and onerous search for the missing strawberries GOP votes.

[SilverFang01]

Trump has been rushing a wave of pardons, from common criminals to war criminals:

rump announces wave of pardons, including Papadopoulos and former lawmakers Hunter and Collins

Plus threatening to veto the Defense spending bill and the COVID relief bill. The second veto is just theater for his base though:

Congress lines up override votes in case Trump vetoes defense bill

Trump throws Covid relief bill in doubt by asking Congress to amend it

[robkelk]

...
Plus threatening to veto the Defense spending bill and the COVID relief bill. The second veto is just theater for his base though:

Congress lines up override votes in case Trump vetoes defense bill

Trump throws Covid relief bill in doubt by asking Congress to amend it

I have to agree with him here. $600 per person? C'mon, Canada managed $600 per person per week for six months (but no money for people whose income didn't drop). Is the USA poorer than Canada?

[Bob Schroeck]

Secret Service Has No Plan if Trump Refuses to Go.

Despite the title, it's not bad news - more an enumeration of the things Trump can't use to avoid leaving. The headline is accurate, although that's mainly a tactic they're using to avoid giving him ideas, and to keep from being whipsawed by whatever he does try. The final line of the article is more or less what we've been speculating -- if he refuses to go, they're expecting they'll have to drag him out.

[Dartz]

And the pardons keep rolling:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us...um=twitter

This, of course, means they can be compelled to testify as they are no-longer in danger of conviction.

Does it work that way? Seems a bit too sensible

[hazard]

It should work that way.

I mean, the entire point of the 5th Amendment is to establish that somebody cannot be compelled to incriminate themselves for something they may be punished for, but if the government has already established no (further) punishment will follow for the matters under consideration... It's not that dissimilar to exchanging immunity for testimony in Congress.

[Bob Schroeck]

And the answer is a qualified yes. The following comes from The Washington Post (here; if you've used up your free reads at the Post this month, Google Cache is your friend):

A person may refuse to testify, even when subpoenaed, on the grounds that the testimony may expose him to criminal liability. But if the prospect of criminal liability disappears — whether because he has been granted adequate immunity by prosecutors, or because he has accepted a presidential pardon — then the privilege against self-incrimination also disappears. “If the witness has already received a pardon, he cannot longer set up his privilege, since he stands with respect to such offence as if it had never been committed.” Brown v. Walker (1895); see also, e.g., Nixon v. Sampson (D.D.C. 1975) (yes, that Nixon). (Remember that, as with President Richard Nixon, a pardon can preclude future criminal prosecutions, and not just erase past ones.)

There's more than that, including the option to refuse a pardon to preserve one's fifth amendment rights, but the article is surprisingly short and succinct. Worth a read.

And you can be sure that while prosecutors are thoroughly aware of this, it may have escaped Trump entirely.

[Bob Schroeck]

Meanwhile, Trump wasn't smart enough to pocket veto the defense bill, forcing a vote to override next week. We know that both houses of Congress passed it with veto-proof majorities, so unless improbably huge numbers of Republicans defect (which is unlikely to happen for the same reason they defied Trump and voted for it in the first place), Trump's just set himself up for another humiliation.

[Bob Schroeck]

Trump's Martial-Law Talk Has Military on Red Alert

[robkelk]

Trump's Martial-Law Talk Has Military on Red Alert

And though President Trump himself tweeted "Martial law = Fake News" the day of the New York Times report,

We know what else he calls "Fake News". Guess we'd better get ready for this.

[Black Aeronaut]

It'll be interesting if he does declare martial law. From the sound of things, the Brass in the Pentagon will use it as an excuse to make goddamn certain that absolutely no one interferes when the Secret Service drag Trump kicking and screaming from the White House.

[Jinx999]

It is the kind of thing that would mean he leaves the White house in cuffs, destroys any legacy he might have and gets rid of his base.

It would be a complely insane thing for him to do.

It's incompatable with him vetoing the military bill.
.
.
.
I've regularly looked at his twitter over the past month and I can't 100% rule it out.

[robkelk]

It'll be interesting if he does declare martial law.  From the sound of things, the Brass in the Pentagon will use it as an excuse to make goddamn certain that absolutely no one interferes when the Secret Service drag Trump kicking and screaming from the White House.

It is a matter of public knowledge that the Pentagon has plans on file should you ever need to invade Canada. They have plans for everything.

Plans for what to do if an ex-President refuses to leave? No doubt those were written long ago - and updated every so often. Gotta keep the officers attending classes at the War College busy somehow.

[classicdrogn]

On the bright side, if the Trump regime has proved anything, it's that there is no secret cabal running things from the shadows - any group competent enough to stay hidden that way would also have been able to keep him from doing this kind of damage to the system and to public confidence in it.

[Bob Schroeck]

And that's 300 messages in this thread.

Here's the next -- and hopefully the last -- thread on this topic.