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[OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
[OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#1
I need some input.

The story that I increasingly-laughingly refer to as "my current story" has Sailor Mercury by necessity and almost accidentally learning some magic that has nothing to do with the Silver Millennium. No, I'm not going to say what that magic is - yet - because it doesn't matter for this discussion. What does matter is that it isn't Sailor Mercury's canon magic.

It's specifically Sailor Mercury who's learning it, not Ami Mizuno.

Does Ami get the benefit of Sailor Mercury's knowledge of this new-to-her magic?

The answer to that requires an examination of how magic works in the Metacontinuity... and that requires all of the writers to offer some input.

Is magic something that anybody can learn? (Well, anybody other than the espers of Academy City, who can learn it but would literally kill themselves if they tried to use it.) Or does magic rely on an inborn something (a star seed / linker core / seventh sense / whatever)? If it relies on an inborn something, can that something be implanted? (Guru Clef would say "yes", Doug Sangnoir might say "no".)

Does magic work the same way for everybody, or is it something unique unto one's self?

And if somebody has more than one form, is the magic part of the person or the form that the person is in? (Sailor Mars with her precognitive abilities would say "the person", Sailor Jupiter would say "the form" - so this isn't even consistent within a single ficton.)


tl;dr: Just how the heck does magic work in TNB?


As for the specific case, I want Ami to be able to use this magic... but I want more to be consistent with the other writers here. Would saying "it's knowledge, she has it, she can use it in any form" step on anybody's toes?
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#2
Hm.

Writing this off the top of my head with no planning whatsoever...

Magic is the ability to impose changes on reality through applied willpower. It might serve the story best if, basically, some people are born very good at that -- mages -- and others can bull their way into it despite lacking any inborn talent with sufficient determination or training. But the former will (almost) always have an edge on the latter.

How they impose those changes -- what in Drunkard's Walk I call a school, style or tradition -- would essentially be a "cookbook" of techniques that produce specific desired effects. And things like Harry Potter-style wands would be tools that amplify one's will or aid in focusing one's will power.

Does that sound like a workable start?
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#3
It does, yes.

That would put Intelligent Devices and Kaleidosticks in the "tools" category, if I'm grasping the concept correctly... which leads me to the conclusion that the Sailor Senshi's "goddamned princess wands" are tools, too. And thus Sailor Mercury is Ami with a mana boost.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#4
Hrmmm...

I would also be inclined to say that having something like a Linker Core or a Star Seed massively boosts your ability to affect the world around you. That is, it determines how much force you can bring to bear.
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#5
You know, I was under the impression (not being all that familiar with the later seasons of Sailor Moon) that a Star Seed was a soul or component thereof. And given how they're treated in Nanoha, Linker Cores are much the same... an organ of the spiritual body. (Hey... Evangelion's Metaphysical Biology could come in handy here... someone call Ritsuko Akagi.)

Intelligent Devices, again judging from the source, would not be so much tools for focusing will or control like Potter!wands, but appliances for performing/executing the incredibly complex techniques of Midchildan magic (or most of them) for their owners, who provide the power and will to "fuel" them.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#6
Obviously I'm not one of the participating authors but if you'll allow the interjection, If I'm getting Bob's point correctly a hand tool analogy would be that a HP wand is an awl, while an Intelligent Device is a compass (the drafting/workshop type, not orienteering.) Both have pointy ends and can be used to poke or scratch things, but the compass is a bit more complex to operate and makes certain precision work beyond poking or scratching much, much easier to accomplish. (An awl is also superior in its own tasks, of course.)
--
‎noli esse culus
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#7
I'm given to believe that they're very similar things as well.  How similar will need to be discussed and debated further, with careful comparisons of features and uses.

As for the analogies of wands and IDs?

Hmmm...  Really, I think it's more like the difference between having a shop full of old hand tools... and having a shop with a CNC machine.

It even fits in that well made hand tools can do wonderful things, but require great skill and finesse to do so.  CNC Machines, on the other hand, require less physical skill, but much more mathematical knowledge.  At least, for the part where you're making your own spells.  (Which is why Nanoha was so damn impressive in her youth.  She was not only a pint-sized power house, but also had the mathematical capabilities to go from being a total novice to creating Starlight Breaker in about two or three weeks!)
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#8
Okay, we have a handle on what the hardware does.

Back to the meat of my original question:

(11-13-2021, 06:16 PM)robkelk Wrote: The story that I increasingly-laughingly refer to as "my current story" has Sailor Mercury by necessity and almost accidentally learning some magic that has nothing to do with the Silver Millennium. No, I'm not going to say what that magic is - yet - because it doesn't matter for this discussion. What does matter is that it isn't Sailor Mercury's canon magic.

It's specifically Sailor Mercury who's learning it, not Ami Mizuno.

Does Ami get the benefit of Sailor Mercury's knowledge of this new-to-her magic?

...

And if somebody has more than one form, is the magic part of the person or the form that the person is in? (Sailor Mars with her precognitive abilities would say "the person", Sailor Jupiter would say "the form" - so this isn't even consistent within a single ficton.)

Ami uses her transformation wand to become Sailor Mercury.

Sailor Mercury learns a non-Senshi spell.

Sailor Mercury transforms back to Ami.

Ami tries casting the spell, and... what?
  • It works perfectly
  • It fizzles because Ami doesn't have enough power - the transformation wand is a Boost Device
  • Nothing happens because it's Sailor Mercury who knows the spell (I think we've already said this one's unlikely)
  • Other

Assuming the "math is magic" idea is correct, Ami definitely has the math - she routinely places at the top (or one of the top two) in the country in the practice exams.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
RE: [OOC] The Metacontinuity and Magic
#9
I'd say a bit of Option One with a bit of "Other". I like to think that the system that the Midchildans and Belkans use is very similar in style to what we see in Diane Duane's Young Wizards series in that there is a lot of science involved along with the invocation of "proper names".

Example, in Minako's case, the spell would need to name Minako as she is supposed to be - everything that she is, and that on its own goes a long ways towards healing her because it defines Minako in her previous state.

Midchildan would be a bit more brute-force - it would instead describe the repair work needed to fix the damage. More longhand to the Young Wizard's shorthand. Ami would probably remark that its quite a long and complicated spell, but still very useful.

I'll need to check on Mrs. Duane's policy about fanfiction - she has some restrictions. Because I'd love it if I could have Nita and Kit showing up in San Antonio, all, "Dai Stiho! We're on errantry and we greet you."

EDIT: Sorry, "Other" in the sense that she flubs it once, maybe, and then gets this ferocious look as she tells herself, "I am better than this! One more time!


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