Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#1
Finally gave up and just put this here.

Just spent as  long trying to find the right place for this post as it took me to read the article linked below a couple of times, I thought there was a section for copyright, but  didn't find it, so just stuck it in general chatter.


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/01/be...p-creators


I was over at EFF and came across a report that "Wizards of the Coast" may revoke or change the  OGL or "open gaming license" for Dungeon and Dragons.

This might only be of interest to Bob, but the article in the link above has some good discussion of copyright and fair use in terms of Role Playing Games.

hmelton
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#2
yeah and Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast have been getting assloads of backlash on the issue. Dozens (maybe hundreds) of people have cancelled their OneD&D accounts, widespread talk of boycotting D&D altogether, etc

Not to mention the dubious legality of trying to close an Open Gaming License that's been in effect for 20 years, and has as part of it's written document the ability of users to not upgrade to newer versions if they don't want to.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#3
(01-15-2023, 08:44 PM)Norgarth Wrote: yeah and Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast have been getting assloads of backlash on the issue. Dozens (maybe hundreds) of people have cancelled their OneD&D accounts, widespread talk of boycotting D&D altogether, etc

That "etc" includes planning work on these very forums.

And I wonder what Steve Jackson (he who took the US Secret Service to court and won) thinks of this decision that has an effect on some of his company's products. But I don't wonder enough to go look for a statement.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#4
The developers for the Pathfinder system, Paizo, IIRC, were developers for Wizards of the Coast at the time the Open Gaming License was first formulated.

And they've gone 'okay, we are writing our own gaming license that is like the OGL, and you can do absolutely nothing about it. In fact, the only reason we were part of the OGL since Pathfinder 2nd Edition is because it made accessing our system by 3rd party writers easier, not because we used anything you could sue us for.'
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#5
WotC: "I think I hear my lawyer calling. We might take our footbal and go home..."

Everyone: "Oh? I Guess we'll have to play soccer instead."
--
‎noli esse culus
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#6
This strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face. OGL was what allowed such a rich and diverse amount of stuff to propagate. Anyone who uses OGL sourced material is in one way or another adding to the name recognition and/or sales of the original material.

Trying to flip the table on this after 20 years in the name of pure greed is just asinine.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#7
See also https://hackaday.com/2023/01/11/wizards-...olden-egg/
----
Web Home
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#8
This made the national news in Canada yesterday.

Here's a transcript.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#9
And with the Motley Fool predicting Hasbro's stock will start dropping over this, massive cancellations of user accounts, and open revolt among customers and former partners, WOTC has completely capitulated.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#10
Check back in a couple of years to see if WotC is back to it, but with a smaller change.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#11
(01-18-2023, 09:03 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: And with the Motley Fool predicting Hasbro's stock will start dropping over this, massive cancellations of user accounts, and open revolt among customers and former partners, WOTC has completely capitulated.

The fans had better hold them to this. WOTC threatened to screw over 20 years of fan content made in good faith with this stunt. If I were the fans, I'd making sure WOTC groveled for forgiveness for it some time for this.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#12
I'm pretty sure, at least as much as I can be without actual paid legal advice, that any material already published under the 1.0a version would legally remain under the same agreement, so while they might try to claim proceeds from, say, Mongoose Publishing's Encyclopedia Arcane series for D&D 3e & 3.5e counts toward the $750,000 limit before owing them money a ruling otherwise would be an open and shut case in contract court and might just get thrown out without even going to trial. It would certainly have put the kibosh on a new editions revised for 6e, though, and since playing around with some of the alternate takes on magic they offer (Star Magic and Elementalists, mostly, or the one expanding Divination into something a player might actually find viable for specializing in, and/or Constructs) is one of the very few things that still hold any interest to me in the D&D space, it should be immediately obvious even to the HasBros why that's bad for their dreams of selling me another copy of slightly tweaked core rulebooks. But no, HasBros gonna bro with all they has, I guess. Gotta haul that muchkin loot, Monty.

If you've never checked out the Star Magic book, by the way, it has a really interesting alternate take on magic, with all first level effects being channeled from a particular star (and subject to variation in power depending on season and that star's position in the sky, abstracted to simply listing when it's ascendant, normal, or descendant) while all higher level effects are "constellations" of 2-5 Stars which the caster must already have access to in order to learn and cast. From the designers' notes it was the only magic system in the original campaign setting they pulled it from, but the divine-only effects (healing etc.) got scrubbed out along with genericizing the references to gods and so on in the process of making it into a relatively setting-agnostic source book. I ended up writing a bunch of additional stars and constellations to put that back into it and eventually posted a copy on their forums some years ago, but would probably have considerable difficulty finding it now.
--
‎noli esse culus
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#13
(01-19-2023, 06:38 AM)GethN7 Wrote:
(01-18-2023, 09:03 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: And with the Motley Fool predicting Hasbro's stock will start dropping over this, massive cancellations of user accounts, and open revolt among customers and former partners, WOTC has completely capitulated.

The fans had better hold them to this. WOTC threatened to screw over 20 years of fan content made in good faith with this stunt. If I were the fans, I'd making sure WOTC groveled for forgiveness for it some time for this.

Sadly, it's not WotC that needs to learn, it's Hasbro.

And Hasbro won't learn, regardless of whether or not WotC even survives. Much as it sucks, the best option for the fans is to look for a different system/publisher that offers a similar enough playstyle.

Because Hasbro will force another try, if perhaps smaller in scope, it wants that money and doesn't care who it screws over to get it. The guys on top don't have to, you see, because their money is going to roll in regardless.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#14
(01-19-2023, 08:39 PM)hazard Wrote:
(01-19-2023, 06:38 AM)GethN7 Wrote:
(01-18-2023, 09:03 PM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: And with the Motley Fool predicting Hasbro's stock will start dropping over this, massive cancellations of user accounts, and open revolt among customers and former partners, WOTC has completely capitulated.

The fans had better hold them to this. WOTC threatened to screw over 20 years of fan content made in good faith with this stunt. If I were the fans, I'd making sure WOTC groveled for forgiveness for it some time for this.

Sadly, it's not WotC that needs to learn, it's Hasbro.

And Hasbro won't learn, regardless of whether or not WotC even survives. Much as it sucks, the best option for the fans is to look for a different system/publisher that offers a similar enough playstyle.

Because Hasbro will force another try, if perhaps smaller in scope, it wants that money and doesn't care who it screws over to get it. The guys on top don't have to, you see, because their money is going to roll in regardless.

Point duly noted. Far as I'm concerned, this incident was just a blatant backstab in the name of greed, and whoever thought it was a wonderful idea, well, I wouldn't be surprised if they've earned the everlasting hatred of the fans, and frankly, they'll have earned it several times over.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#15
Looks like maybe WotC is trying their own end run around Hasbro -- it's placing the core rules of D&D "under the purview of Creative Commons". The phrasing is a little odd, and the article linked is kind of obscure, but a CBR.com article makes it clear they're going to replace OGL with a Creative Commons license.

Meanwhile, another article offers more details on the capitulation -- turns out it was the immediate financial hit from all the cancelled online subscriptions which prompted it. Hasbro saw an almost instant drop in its bottom line.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#16
Hasbro has been seeing a drop in its bottom line for months, which was undoubtedly one of the precipitating factors in the whole shemozzel, but also making it more impactful when the reaction made things immediately worse. In the end it's like any other consumer vs. corp-rat situation, the only tool with real leverage is to vote with your wallet, and if you can get enough people to agree with you, y'all just might be able to turn the juggernaut after all.
--
‎noli esse culus
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#17
another side effect of the loss of trust in Hasbro/Wizards is that I've started seeing links to videos about 'what game you may want to try instead'
Including this one about Mutants and Masterminds Cool
Jay Martin - Play Your Role
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#18
https://youtube.com/shorts/ae3B4V5csWg?feature=share

Provided without comment.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#19
And as of Friday 27 January, it looks like Hasbro/WotC has just utterly given up on any attempt to change the OGL, as well as its plans to gain some kind of control over virtual tabletop gaming.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#20
(01-28-2023, 09:47 AM)Bob Schroeck Wrote: And as of Friday 27 January, it looks like Hasbro/WotC has just utterly given up on any attempt to change the OGL, as well as its plans to gain some kind of control over virtual tabletop gaming.

Hmmmmm...

Quote:Finally, the company finished the statement with an olive branch, publishing the SRD immediately, and stating, “Here’s a PDF of SRD 5.1 with the Creative Commons license. By simply publishing it, we place it under an irrevocable Creative Commons license.

Somebody should point out the "irrevocable" part to Fighteer and Fast Eddie.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#21
Which version of CC did they use, I wonder? I'm assuming Attribution, possibly Share Alike, but No Remix and Non-Commercial would be just as much of a problem. Though, would CC-NC stop WotC from using it commercially as well? I'm not very fluent in license technicalities. Either way, those latter ones seem highly unlikely to me, jst from how they'd only keep the bad vibes stirring with the (arguably) bait-and-switch.
--
‎noli esse culus
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#22
From the very first page of the document in question:

Quote:The System Reference Document 5.1 is provided to you free of charge under the terms of the Creative Commons
Attribution 4.0 International License (“CC-BY-4.0”). You are free to use this content in any manner permitted by that
license as long as you include the following attribution statement in your own work:

This work includes material taken from the System Reference Document 5.1 (“SRD 5.1”) by Wizards of
the Coast LLC and available at https://dnd.wizards.com/resources/system...e-document. The
SRD 5.1 is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License available at
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/legalcode.

Please do not include any other attribution regarding Wizards other than that provided above. You may, however,
include a statement on your work that it is “compatible with fifth edition” or “5E compatible.”

Section 5 of CC-BY-4.0 includes a Disclaimer of Warranties and Limitation of Liability that limits our liability to you.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#23
The Adventuring Party - an Irish gaming podcast has been covering this over the last two weeks

Both installments are well worth a listen because theyre actually from intelligent people

It's a bit out of date since it was released last Wednesday so the next update will be this week.

Also - worth checking out the backscroll


Episode 1 TL;DR - Maybe it's about control rather than money
Episode 2 TL;DR - Who'se got skin in the game for this.....

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#24
WotC found a new way to suck. A streamer got some unreleased cards early by mistake and did a video on them. So WotC sent the fucking PINKERTONS after him.
Reply
RE: Beware Dragon gifts or Possible D&D copyright change
#25
Obviously someone high up felt that they'd gotten too much good press from how they backed off on the license thing and decided to fix that.
-- Bob

I have been Roland, Beowulf, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Clark Kent, Mary Sue, DJ Croft, Skysaber.  I have been 
called a hundred names and will be called a thousand more before the sun grows dim and cold....
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)