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Re: Timeline Follies
#26
Quote:
Am I making any sense at all here?
Yes.
Ultimately, this is your brain tumor we're operating on here, Fnord.
Besides, we're getting bogged down in arguing this, I think. Let's just use the timeline as posted, with SauceCon in 2012, and adjust accordingly.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
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Re: Timeline Follies
#27
Quote:
Besides, we're getting bogged down in arguing this, I think. Let's just use the timeline as posted, with SauceCon in 2012, and adjust accordingly.
Right then.
Here's the revised timeline sourced to 2012. Comment & fill in at will:

Late 2006 - Early 2007: Handwavium is "invented." Samples are sent to high-security mundane labs for analysis.
Spring 2007: The handwavium manages to slip past the security and starts filtering into fandom.
Summer 2007: Worldcon Yokohama - The first public demonstration of the power of handwavium when an enterprising fan refits his car and flies to Japan for the con; NASA/DARPA/USAF establish Transrationality Scientific Assessment Bureau (TSAB) to study and reverse-engineer handwavium devices.
Fall 2007: That Con - Enterprising idiot spikes the hospitality suite food with concentrated handwavium, causing unexpected biomods in the convention goers. USGov goes nuts, "quarantines" the guests until they make their own escape.
Fall/Winter 2007: First wave of handwavium-equipped explorers hit orbit, Luna, Mars.
Winter 2007/08: The Professor hits Paris with much bwahahaha-ing; Hermes Universal Deliveries founded; ; Rockhounds, Inc. orbits their first Space Rock.
Spring 2008: Noah Scott starts building Stellvia; Lunar cities founded(?)
Summer 2008: Flying Island launched; major factions (Trekkies, Warsies) begin moving off Earth en masse; Professor steals/borrows/blackmails the Sol Bianca from the Danish crown and makes his way offworld; Space Rock #7 is returned to the Belt to become the core of Seijutaigakure no Sato.
Fall 2008: USGov enacts strict handwavium regulations; Explain Star leaves Earth amid hail of gunfire; USGov enacts draconian anti-handwavium legislation in wake of Explain Star incident; Pinafore lifts one step ahead of the federales; Mars Terraforming Project begins(?); Galaxy Express 999 enters service; Colonel Stephen Caldwell, USAF, appointed administrator of TSAB Station Benjamin Franklin (nee Space Rock #4).
Winter 2008/09: Senshi settle on (above) Venus(?); Venus Terraforming Project begins(?)
Spring 2009: (?)
Summer 2009: Worldcon Flying Island - First off-Earth Worldcon; first Articles of Convention produced, voted on.
2010: KandorCon - First formal Convention; treaty between the Fandom Nation and the governments of Earth. Blanket amnesty given to all fen who left Earth during the hardest parts of the handwavium restrictions.
2011: (?)
2012: The SS Grover's Corners lifts off from West Virginia and in the process plunges the United States into a new round of antihandwavium paranoia; Suzumiya's Convention - SOS-dan calls a Convention under the emergency clause; Star Patrol founded.

ETA: Norway's personal stuff as it impacts the main line. New additions in blue.
(Note: I did juggle a little, but that's cause the dates didn't seem to line up - Rockhounds brings in their first rock in early '08 and they've already got four in place by summer? That right or just a clerical error?)
---
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Re: Timeline Follies
#28
Personal timeline:
Fall 2007: Rockhounds, Inc., legally registered in the USA, corporate headquarters, Rochester NY. Contracts signed with Dolomite, NASA.
Winter 2007: Chris Marsden gets hold of a US Navy tug at a salvage auction, applies a lot of handwavium and a few prayers to Deities Of Choice, and heads off to find a Cool Rock.
Spring 2007: First Space Rock returned to Earth Orbit, mining begins. Contract proposals for additional Rocks begin pouring in.
Summer 2007: NASA/DARPA/USAF establish Transrationality Scientific Assessment Bureau to study and reverse-engineer handwavium devices. Colonel Stephen Caldwell, USAF, appointed administrator of TSAB Station Benjamin Franklin (nee Space Rock #4).
Winter 2007: Marsden begins preparation of the Garden on Space Rock #5.
Summer 2008: Space Rock #7 is returned to the Belt to become the core of Seijutaigakure no Sato. First sighting of Ayanami Rei in the Garden.
Winter 2008/09: Marsden decides to retire from personal participation in asteroid prospecting. Rockhounds, Inc. refocuses business to brokerage between mining companies, purchasers, and prospectors. Corporate HQ moved to Space Rock #5, which is christened Greenwood.
Summer 2009: Amy O'Connell is transferred to the TSAB and inspires Marsden to provide them a gift of specially-designed uniforms. --
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!

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Re: Timeline Follies
#29
Quote:
(Note: I did juggle a little, but that's cause the dates didn't seem to line up - Rockhounds brings in their first rock in early '08 and they've already got four in place by summer? That right or just a clerical error?)
I figure my date was when the TSAB was actually established, and the Fed decided that orbit was a better (read, safer) place to put them than anywhere near a populated area, like Antarctica. They would've established the Bureau, signed a contract for a Rock, and said "Ok, we're going to call it Ben Franklin, this guy (not Caldwell, some expendable Captain not named Sam Carter) knows what we want, take 'em out and they'll help you find a good Rock for us". Actual date of move-in would be the one you posted.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!

--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.
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Re: Timeline Follies
#30
Quote:
Actual date of move-in would be the one you posted.
Allrighty then. ---
Mr. Fnord
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Venusian plants...
#31
Quote:
Venus has cooled off enough to be able to support life with biochemistry that's compatable with human biochemistry (c.f. the thionite subplot). I have trouble seeing that happen in a decade even with Washuu-tech, but it's established that it's happened with wavetech, so we're stuck with it.
Here's my take on this one: first, you have blue-green algae modded to float and work on converting the atmosphere. Combined with various extremophilic bacteria (those that live in the Yellowstone hot springs, or near the deep sea volcanic vents), you could get something that would survive. As a means of being helpful, if I were designing this (and it might well have BEEN me - I LIKE the terraformers for both Mars and Venus), I'd toss something in to speed up the process - cells from shrews and hummingbirds. Let's put the algae cycle on fast forward, shall we? As a consequence of this and the extreme conditions that the algae is living under, well....it's possible the things have gone into an evolutionary cycle measured in....years, possibly months. Especially if lingering handwavium were to give things a kick. Think the Genesis Planet, or the one movie with Fox Mulder's actor, where an alien life form was evolving in some caverns in a matter of days. This is the sort of thing that's nearly gotten me into trouble before, when I was testing exactly how fast I could get a plant to grow. The tribble rose was quite lovely - iridescent ruby-red flowers, iridescent green leaves, green-brown fur on the canes that hid the rather long thorns...and composed of a mix of species that should never have been allowed to come anywhere near each other: kudzu, multiflora rose, leafy splurge, and shrew and ruby-throated hummingbird. When you have a plant species where the leaves visibly unfold and canes visibly wrap around objects in real time...well...there's a reason it was destroyed.
In any case, while it's pushing the envelope of disbelief, I wouldn't exactly count it out. Handwavium-altered objects are far too odd to discount so easily. Even the organic ones...possibly especially the organic ones.
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Re: Venusian plants...
#32
Quote:
In any case, while it's pushing the envelope of disbelief, I wouldn't exactly count it out. Handwavium-altered objects are far too odd to discount so easily. Even the organic ones...possibly especially the organic ones.
The one thing that keeps tweaking me on Venusian terraforming is the heat. It's really freaking hot on the surface. Lead melts on the surface, and that's a bit beyond extremophile bacteria's tolerance range. The surface needs to be cooled down to the point where it's like the sulfur pools at Yellowstone first.
I like the idea of having biomod plants in the atmosphere working to break down some of that CO2, though. Hell, the atmosphere is thick enough and deep enough that you could have an entire airborne ecosystem of terraforming plants sucking up that carbon dioxide. Plenty of room for broadleaf to "evolve" without requiring us to cool the surface down from blast-furnace first.---
Mr. Fnord
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Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
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Re: Venusian plants...
#33
Quote:
I like the idea of having biomod plants in the atmosphere working to break down some of that CO2, though. Hell, the atmosphere is thick enough and deep enough that you could have an entire airborne ecosystem of terraforming plants sucking up that carbon dioxide. Plenty of room for broadleaf to "evolve" without requiring us to cool the surface down from blast-furnace first.
I've never insisted the plants be on the surface; in fact, I usually mention that the algae I've designed are made to float in the atmosphere. I think others have gone for the surface model...and when I've read of the algae model for terraforming Venus, I do believe I remember something about water production/rain that would eventually cool the surface. But you certainly don't need that for an evolving ecosystem in the atmosphere. If you want to make it difficult to harvest the broadleaf, you could always say that the extremophilic tendencies have made it so that the thionite-producing variety lives down at the bottom of the viable plant range, nearer the heat/surface.
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Venusian Castle (draft)
#34
The recreation of Venus, as currently envisioned, has three primary aspects: The use of biologics to induce long-term changes in the chemicial balances of the Venusian environment, the importation of elements not present in the existing environment or needed to fix those which are into their desired forms, and the use of a planet-wide network of space-time alteration devices to modify the world's rotation into an acceptable day-night cycle.
Conceptually, a Castle is a tethered rigid balloon of uprecidented scale, capable of supporting a 'rotation generator' and all associated equipment and personnel at an altitude in the Venusian atmosphere where conditions approximate those found on Earth. While the existing design combines functions to serve all three aspects of the terraforming project, future types currently on the drawing boards are all more limited, there being no need for more than a certain number of bioengineering labs.
The six 'Core Castles', once completed, will be Magellan, Mariner, Pioneer, Venera, Vega, and Zond. They are being built using self-perpetuating 'dome plants' seeded in a spiral on the surface of Luna near Moonbase Alpha, so that, when the plants' growth is halted, the resulting enclosure includes a series of linked pressure chambers like those of the shell of a chambered nautilus. After the pressure domes have grown to the desired sizes, their linked facets are cut away and replaced with iris-type sealable doors, while their outer surfaces are coated in a form of 'smart paint' and the underlying regolith is excavated to leave room for the tether reel, power generators, field modules, storage cells, and chemical plants which the Castles are built to support. Once its niche is finished, an alteration engine is installed and used to shear the Castle free from its parent rock and propel it first into space, then to a soft planetfall on Earth for the installation of the rest of its permanent equipment.
Finally, the Castle is moved again and deploys its tether for anchoring to a chosen point on the Venusian surface. Once in place, power for continuing operations is provided by conventional steam turbines heated by the tether's high-conductivity core - and, indirectly, the environment of the surface itself - and the Castle can be declared operational as the landscaping of its interior begins.
Magellan was the first Castle to be completed, and, as it was intended from the beginning to serve as the headquarters of the Terraforming Project, is nearly twenty-five percent larger than its siblings and, at slightly more than 2,500 meters in diameter, the largest mobile construct yet produced by human hands.


I should probably go into more detail about the whole 'change the rotation' thing, but I'm kinda burned out at the moment. I'll likely come back to it later.
Ja, -n

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Re: Timeline Follies
#35
Quote:
Summer 2008: Space Rock #7 is returned to the Belt to become the core of Seijutaigakure no Sato.
How attached are you to this particular point?
I can work with it, but I was planning on the Seijutaigakure no Sato being founded by a group of Asteroid Miners who decided to stay in the Belt permenently after working on Space Rock #6 and mined out their own asteroid in order to keep it 'secret'.
If you need this to be how it works then I can work with it though.
Incidentally, Space Rock #6 would be the one that Mr. Morden (then not even nicknamed that) worked on during his early stint as an asteroid miner.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.
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Re: Timeline Follies
#36
Is there a date set for the photo expeditions?
My work on Pallas is assuming that it started after the landing there that produced the photos for Earth, and is an alternative to the asteroid mining projects (based on the assumption that Pallas is a carbonaceous asteroid, rather than a stony/metallic one).
Anyone who's read L. Neil Smith's Pallas will recognize what I'm doing there. Using bacteria and algae created by The Jason will make it work a lot faster than it would otherwise, but still, it'll take at least a couple years to complete.
I'd say that, at the time of the SOS-Con, it's close to the completion of the bacterial phase of the transformation, about time to inject the algae and plants, but not yet ready for colonists. It'll probably be ready for colonists a year or two after SOS-Con.--
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Re: Venusian plants...
#37
Quote:
Fall 2007: Rockhounds, Inc., legally registered in the USA, corporate headquarters, Rochester NY. Contracts signed with Dolomite, NASA.
Winter 2007: Chris Marsden gets hold of a US Navy tug at a salvage auction, applies a lot of handwavium and a few prayers to Deities Of Choice, and heads off to find a Cool Rock.
Spring 2007: First Space Rock returned to Earth Orbit, mining begins. Contract proposals for additional Rocks begin pouring in.
Summer 2007: NASA/DARPA/USAF establish Transrationality Scientific Assessment Bureau to study and reverse-engineer handwavium devices. Colonel Stephen Caldwell, USAF, appointed administrator of TSAB Station Benjamin Franklin (nee Space Rock #4).
Winter 2007: Marsden begins preparation of the Garden on Space Rock #5.
Summer 2008: Space Rock #7 is returned to the Belt to become the core of Seijutaigakure no Sato. First sighting of Ayanami Rei in the Garden.
Winter 2008/09: Marsden decides to retire from personal participation in asteroid prospecting. Rockhounds, Inc. refocuses business to brokerage between mining companies, purchasers, and prospectors. Corporate HQ moved to Space Rock #5, which is christened Greenwood.
Summer 2009: Amy O'Connell is transferred to the TSAB and inspires Marsden to provide them a gift of specially-designed uniforms.
Umm, Norway? You go from winter '07 to spring '07, either the first two entries are in '06, or everything else is a year later.
Quote:
the one movie with Fox Mulder's actor, where an alien life form was evolving in some caverns in a matter of days.
Feinan, I believe that movie was titled "Evolution". [Image: glasses.gif] __________________
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. - George Carlin.
___________________________
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Re: Timeline Follies
#38
Quote:
Is there a date set for the photo expeditions?
No firm date, but assume the initial surveys of the more promising targets in the Main Belt happens in the bracket around September '07 to December '08.
Quote:
Using bacteria and algae created by The Jason will make it work a lot faster than it would otherwise, but still, it'll take at least a couple years to complete.
I thought that was what you were doing, but I couldn't quite figure out how. Pallas doesn't have nearly enough gravity to hold an atmosphere unless you sunk a gravity generator into the core (which is just feasible with wavetech). Be neat to pull off, though. Very Saint-Exuperey.---
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"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
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Re: Timeline Follies
#39
Thanks for the dates. That means I'm likely not even launched until you've hit the bigger ones.
As for Pallas holding an atmosphere? Think of it as a 3D greenhouse with the asteroid at the core. Lots and LOTS of plastic wrap to hold in the atmosphere.
I thought about the gravity generator, but decided that with my character's particular issues, he'd prefer a solution that doesn't force him to endure large amounts of gravity. And for his purposes, Luna has large amounts of gravity.--
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Re: Timeline Follies
#40
Aah, I see, sort of an inflatible tent enclosing the rock with anchor points/airlocks at key spots? Nice.---
Mr. Fnord
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Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
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Re: Timeline Follies
#41
Quote:
I can work with it, but I was planning on the Seijutaigakure no Sato being founded by a group of Asteroid Miners who decided to stay in the Belt permenently after working on Space Rock #6 and mined out their own asteroid in order to keep it 'secret'.
If you need this to be how it works then I can work with it though.
Incidentally, Space Rock #6 would be the one that Mr. Morden (then not even nicknamed that) worked on during his early stint as an asteroid miner.
Hmmm. You ARE Number Six, eh? [Image: smile.gif]
I'm not attached to the idea by more than fondness, to be honest. I'm more than a bit of a Naruto fan and I like the idea of having helped set up Hidden Asteroid.
--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!

--
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question about communications
#42
Is Wavetech is capable of FTL communications?
Even if there is a limit on how far you can go/reach without significant timelag, depending on what that distance is, it would help.
by standard radio it takes at least 3 minutes for a message to go from Earth to Mars (at closest approach), or half an hour to reach Jupiter (again, at closest approach).
note: I'm estimating based on the travel times posted by Fnord in the Gazetteer thread.__________________
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. - George Carlin.
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin
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Re: question about communications
#43
That's something we never really discussed all that much. I'm in favor of FTL wavecom - huh, another one for the glossary - since it lets us have something resembling a system-wide phone network and internet. (if Bob & Co. want to set up Fenspace's first CoH server, that's important.)
For interstellar stuff, I actually ran the spreadsheet for an FTL communications system that broadcast at 10,000,000 times the speed of light. The result? One-way communications lag to Alpha Centauri is 14 seconds. I tell you, nothing gives you an appreciation for the scale of the cosmos like trying to figure out those little fiddly bits the smarter space opera writers leave out of their stuff, like speed-of-plot communications.---
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"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"
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Re: Timeline Follies
#44
Quote:
Hmmm. You ARE Number Six, eh?
I'm not just a number, and I'm not even a pretty face.
Quote:
I'm not attached to the idea by more than fondness, to be honest. I'm more than a bit of a Naruto fan and I like the idea of having helped set up Hidden Asteroid.
Perhap, covert assistance? One of the asteroids split into two parts and you 'donated' the smaller part of it to be the core of Hidden Asteroid, leaving them on Asteroid 8 1/2 or something.
D for Drakensis

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Re: Timeline Follies
#45
Quote:
Hmmm. You ARE Number Six, eh?
You realize that you've just cemented the way the Asteroid's Intelligence Division works in my mind, right.
There aren't very many Numbers yet. Katz, who got one by virtue of playing with things that made other things go boom, got himself inducted by virtue of circumstance as Number Thirteen.
The Kage, is, of course, Number One.
They even have a Rover, for crying out loud.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
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Re: Timeline Follies
#46
Quote:
Perhap, covert assistance? One of the asteroids split into two parts and you 'donated' the smaller part of it to be the core of Hidden Asteroid, leaving them on Asteroid 8 1/2 or something.
This could work. The official buyer of #7 would be Dolomite itself, to build a hab for their workers to rest while mining is ongoing instead of having to keep a 'wave-bus on hand to shuttle them down to Oz and back up. There would be a story about how the asteroid had cracked along a previously-undiscovered faultline while being moved into final orbit, and a fair chunk 'disintegrated into small pieces that burned up in the atmosphere'. So Seijotaigakure would be Rock 7b.
Quote:
You realize that you've just cemented the way the Asteroid's Intelligence Division works in my mind, right.
Heh. [Image: smile.gif] Perfect.
Here's a thought; do they have an outside business factor for contract negotiations and such? It'd be easy enough to 'lose' something like that in Chris's organization... --
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!

--
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Re: Timeline Follies
#47
another wild idea, we have asteroid racing, how about cross-country moon-buggy racing? like the multi-day races that are held in various inhospitable parts of the world.__________________
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live. - George Carlin.
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin
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Re: Timeline Follies
#48
That sounds like lots of fun. And with two big places to run the races (Luna and Mars), you could have everything from sprints to enduro rallies.--
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Re: Timeline Follies
#49
Three words.
Venus. Atmosphere surfing.
-Griever
When tact is required, use brute force. When force is required, use greater force.
When the greatest force is required, use your head. Surprise is everything. - The Book of Cataclysm
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Re: Timeline Follies
#50
Just tell me it doesn't involve the song "Benson, Arizona."--
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