[Discussion] Laying out Luna

[Cobalt Greywalker]

Thoughts:

1) I really need to change the heights of certain things, specifically the dome and how big the Trinity Towers are (if it isn't better to remove them anyway).

2) A depth of 1500m or more makes me want to put a geofront over the thing. (And that leads to removing the towers and sticking a massive pyramid like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimizu_Mega-City_Pyramid]this in there.)

3) Am I leaving enough space for food production?

...

OK, here's a thought. Multi-leveled city? In my minds eye I'm seeing some massive construction involved that is probably beyond even Handwavium's ability (even in the massive quanities that would be necessary). It'd probably look COOL though.

Please remember everyone that this was a very early draft, so if we want to change things we can.

Please comment, cause my imaginations currently in overdrive and I need some input to help focus now.

[M Fnord]

Cobalt Greywalker wrote:

---

Thoughts:


1) I really need to change the heights of certain things, specifically the dome and how big the Trinity Towers are (if it isn't better to remove them


anyway).






2) A depth of 1500m or more makes me want to put a geofront over the thing. (And that leads to removing the towers and sticking a massive pyramid like
this in there.)






3) Am I leaving enough space for food production?

I actually like the idea of the towers. Y'gotta remember that Posi A is only seven miles across. If we're gonna stick 350,000 people into a space seven
miles across *and* keep it green at the same time, density becomes the name of the game. Something like the Towers brings in plenty of space for people to live
& work without covering the entire crater with housing and commercial properties.

For the dome height, it depends on how dramatic you want it to be. It also depends on the correct depth of the crater (looking more closely at the USGS maps,
it looks like we were both wrong about the depth; the surveyors say it's 1120m, not 900, 1200 or 2020. Oy.) I could easily see cranking it up another
kilometer or so just for getting a bit more of the bell-jar effect.

As for the available open space, it's tight. But it was going to be tight short of doming over all of Posidonius or the whole of Mare Serenatis. If
you're really worried, we can move it over to one of the larger satellite craters in the area. Posi J maybe, or Daniell.

...






OK, here's a thought. Multi-leveled city? In my minds eye I'm seeing some massive construction involved that is probably beyond even Handwavium's


ability (even in the massive quanities that would be necessary). It'd probably look COOL though.

Hm, not sure I follow here. Care to elaborate?
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[M Fnord]

In the meantime, have another map. This time, sketching out some terraforming features for the Kandor floor:


(As always, right-click and View Image for the the legible version.)
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Bob Schroeck]

Out of curiosity, are the creeks part of the water reclamation system or a separate, purely aesthetic system? I presume they are fed by pipes leading back from
the lake, like any good landscaped water feature.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[Cobalt Greywalker]

M Fnord wrote:

Hm, not sure I follow here. Care to elaborate?

The idea was basically at surface level (the same as the ground outside the crater) have long promenades floating a ring around the core sector that could have tower blocks built onto or hanging from them (or both), all nicely landscaped of course. Kind of like how Port Lowell is depicted in Armitage III. We could use that level (with supports) as a base for another if we go the bell-jar route on the dome (which I personally like). I was also thinking if the crater had been deeper of putting in that pyramid arcology I linked in my previous post, floating a ring round the core at about rimtop level (with the promenades as before) and building Trinity Towers on THAT. The idea was to pack as much living space as possible as dense as possible, to leave as much free space as possible for greenery (I heartily approve of the terraformaing map).

Remember, Kandor held a convention so even before things like the Towers were built it had to (at least for a week) pretty much support ALL of Fenspace. At the very least the docks have to be extensive.

Yeah, its overkill I know. But DAMN it'd look COOL.

Bob Schroeck wrote:

Out of curiosity, are the creeks part of the water reclamation system or a separate, purely aesthetic system? I presume they are fed by pipes leading back from the lake, like any good landscaped water feature.

Oh HELL YES. All the terraforming features serve recycling purposes as well as astetics. Most of the stuff is simple trial runs for the terraforming projects.

Kandor has the nickname 'The Green City' for its massively effective recycling systems (the fact it's named after a city of Krypton is incidental).

[M Fnord]

Cobalt Greywalker wrote:

---

The idea was basically at surface level (the same as the ground outside the crater) have long promenades floating a ring around the core sector that could
have tower blocks built onto or hanging from them (or both), all nicely landscaped of course. Kind of like how Port Lowell is depicted in Armitage III. We
could use that level (with supports) as a base for another if we go the bell-jar route on the dome (which I personally like). I was also thinking if the
crater had been deeper of putting in that pyramid arcology I linked in my previous post, floating a ring round the core at about rimtop level (with the
promenades as before) and building Trinity Towers on THAT. The idea was to pack as much living space as possible as dense as possible, to leave as much free
space as possible for greenery (I heartily approve of the terraformaing map).




Remember, Kandor held a convention so even before things like the Towers were built it had to (at least for a week) pretty much support ALL of Fenspace. At
the very least the docks have to be extensive.




Yeah, its overkill I know. But DAMN it'd look COOL.

I dunno, it seems like a lot for a pretty small space, and all that construction would really screw with the amount of light hitting the crater floor, not very
good for any floor-level terraforming.

My thoughts on how to handle the city density project involve more single building or clustered arcologies like Trinity Towers out in the main greenspace
combined with somewhat more traditional high-density apartment buildings & whatnot in the "older" areas of Kandor.

Frex, my image of Question Alley is a shopping street in London and a block or two of flats dug into the rim wall with an opening out to the rest of the
crater, so that the whole thing from a distance looks a bit like an English Mesa Verde. Take a vertical trolley down from the QA station to Atlas Park (on the
shallower slope of Rim Sector) and you get something that looks a little like San Fransisco's hills, all the buildings on the slope. Follow Siegel Creek
down to Confluence Park in Main-9 and you get lots of high-density commercial buildings. Since horizontal space is at a premium everything's vertical,
climbing up towards the dome or digging down into the regolith. At the center of the crater you've got Trinity Towers surrounding Lake Tezuka. And so on.

Bob Schroeck wrote:

---

Out of curiosity, are the creeks part of the water reclamation system or a separate, purely aesthetic system? I presume they are fed by pipes leading back
from the lake, like any good landscaped water feature.

The creeks are part of the terraforming maintenance system, which is part and parcel of the city's life support system. It's not *really* part of the
central water reclamation, though it's tied in. The whole point of the creeks is to create at least a theoreticaly self-sustaining water cycle inside the
dome that allows the wildlife to thrive without constant attention. As of 2014 Kandor's terraforming is still in the sagebrush-and-jackrabbits stage, but
so far so good.

(The *really* impressive thing about the Kandor dome's life support system, the subtle mechanisms that give the city a proper 24 hour day/night cycle in
the midst of a four week lunar day, are much like the similar systems operating at the Zeta Cygni Dyson Sphere; a technological miracle, the subject of much
discussion in technical circles, and not up for further elaboration. )
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

I dunno, it seems like a lot for a pretty small space, and all that construction would really screw with the amount of light hitting the crater floor, not very good for any floor-level terraforming.

Yeah. It's looking like Posi A wasn't the best place to pick. Looking at the charts, Posi P or Daniell to the north would work best, with Bessel in Serenitatis to the south-west coming second. Littrow to the south is a bit too closed in by hills and mountains, Dawes is deep and steep, Menelaus is very uneven and while it'd give us tons of space Le Monnier is a bit big (Going that route we might as well dome Posidonius itself).

[M Fnord]

If we're going to shift our location I'd prefer moving to Daniell. It doesn't have the perfect circle shape that Posi A or P have, but a diameter
of 30x23 km gives us a lot more room to maneuver in.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

Daniell it is. Give me a couple of days to try and re-work what we have and add the new stuff. Feel free to post any ideas in the mean time. Fenspace IS a
shared world after all.

[robkelk]

I dunno, it seems like a lot for a pretty small space, and all that construction would really screw with the amount of light hitting the crater floor, not very good for any floor-level terraforming.

You answered that concern in the same post...

(The *really* impressive thing about the Kandor dome's life support system, the subtle mechanisms that give the city a proper 24 hour day/night cycle in the midst of a four week lunar day, are much like the similar systems operating at the Zeta Cygni Dyson Sphere; a technological miracle, the subject of much discussion in technical circles, and not up for further elaboration.

If the dome can be lit that way, so can the underside of the platforms supporting the buildings. At worst, use light pipes to route the light around the buildings and under the lowest layer of structures.

 
 
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[M Fnord]

Enh, as a rule I try not to abuse Bellsario's Maxim too often in one area. The dome additions to the terraforming are within tolerances, the rest of it not
so much.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Cobalt Greywalker]

OK, not quite a day then. I've split the Luna write up and the Kandor City write up to make things easier. However, due to Crater Daniell being an elliptical crater I've completely re-jigged some of the layout. And due to the greater size things are feeling quite empty in there now.

Fnord, if the discription isn't clear enough I have a new rough scetch I can send you.

---

LUNA

Holding the unique distinction of being the only other celestial body Man had personally visited pre wave, Earth's moon Luna (or simply The Moon) is the most populus body in Fenspace.

The largest city in Fenspace is Kandor City, based around The Watchtower and located in Crater Daniell. The city has a population of 350,000, and hosts the Metahuman Power Biomodification Research Institute (Supers faction home base), Kandor City Hospital, and the base for the Soviet Air Force "Central Committee" among others.

The Watchtower is the oldest structure on Luna, and lifts a remarkable 1600m from the surface among its sprawling supports on the south-western lip of the crater. The old part of the city along with the old docks and warehouse district are based around these supports and inside the crater, with the actual living area in glass covers sections between the supports on the craters inner rim.

To the south on Dorsa Smirnov, the Senshi maintain their Moon Kingdom memorial outpost.

Even further south is Port Luna. Here the US Coast Guard has set up shop to prevent the 'vandalisation' of the site of Man's first extra planetary mission. Port Luna helps serve Tranquillity Base National Park, which it surrounds in a ring of pressurised buildings and connecting walkways. The only United States National Park that is not actually on Earth, Tranquillity Base encompasses a 25-square-mile region centred on the Apollo 11 landing site. A transparent lunar-glass wall over ten meters in height fences off the actual landing site from tourists in order to preserve Armstrong and Aldrin's footprints and the equipment they left behind, but the wall is handwavium-enhanced and will provide magnified images. A nearby Visitor's Centre houses a museum, a theatre in which a 20-minute film about the Apollo 11 mission runs on continuous loop, and a scale model of the site which can be explored with interactive camera drones. The land was originally claimed by Fen, who donated it to the US government on the condition they turn it all into a National Park. The other Apollo landing sites are covered as World Heritage Sites and have 3km exclusion zones.

All except the Apollo 14 landing site. While the lander & immediate area are locked off as historical sites, the rest of the surrounding territory has been converted into the Shepard Memorial Golf Course, the first PGA-approved (well, sort of; they slipped the documents in and got the signatures anyway) 18-hole course offworld.

Near the Luna North Pole is Moonbase Alpha. A more hardtech approach to a city, Moonbase Alpha is more an industrial centre than a place to live. It's also near completely self-sufficient and operates an underground hazardous materials storage site on the Luna dark-side.

Also on the dark side of Luna are the Mare Marginis Construction Sites where the Venus Crystal Cities were constructed and the Senshi's main shipbuilding site exists.

At the Luna South Pole in the Shackleton Crater complex. This is run by the Artemis Corporation and the various Luna colonisation societies in co-operation. Shackleton Crater mines the small amount of ice and hydrogen to be found here, as well as mounts the Blind Io Luna Observatory Complex.

---

Kandor City

The largest city in Fenspace, based around The Watchtower and located in Crater Daniell. The city has a population of 350,000, and hosts the Metahuman Power Biomodification Research Institute (Supers faction home base), Kandor City Hospital, and the base for the Soviet Air Force "Central Committee" among others.

The Watchtower is the oldest structure on Luna, and lifts a remarkable 1600m from the highest point of the south-western lip of the crater. The old part of the city along with the old docks and warehouse district are based around these supports and inside the crater, with the actual living area in glass covered sections between the supports on the craters inner rim. Eventually, the fen got inspired (or bored) and built a full bell-like dome over the entire crater. This dome reaches 5Km over the center of the crater and almost twice the height of the Watchtower. The light shinning off it makes it the only man-made structure to be visible by the naked eye from Earth.

Inside the dome, the Supers who built it took advantage of the free space to lay out a clean, tidy, and surprisingly green city. Whilst the old town is crowded, the new city takes the best features of the various cities in fiction and combines them. Due to Crater Daniell being a ellipse, the fen came up with an arrangement of 3 octagonal zones (stretched to fit the long axis of the ellipse) placed inside one another with their borders 4Km apart. From the center of the crater these are named the Core, Main, and Rim zones. These were then split into 8 wedges, corresponding to the major compass points creating the sectors of the city. Each of the sectors is linked by the Kandor City Maglev train system and the Heavy Cargo Transport system on the crater rim. Unofficially there is an Outer zone which deals with those facilities outside the crater rim, and while it has not yet happened further zones may be unofficially designated.

The Watchtower sits on the rim at the Southwest position and the old docks take up the 'Southwest Outer' area, with the Old Town (including such things as Question Alley, the Paragon City Saloon, and Dr J's hardware store) taking up the Southwest Rim sector.

To the north of the Watchtower in the West Rim sector are the Metahuman Biomodification Research Centre (a.k.a. Star Labs) and the dedicated emergency docks of Kandor City Hospital. Ironically enough, the West sector is also where Korolev Air Force Base (home base of the Soviet Air Force or VVS) is located.

Further round in the North Rim sector is the Kirby Memorial Spaceport (extending into the unofficial 'North Outer' area outside the crater rim) and the docklands/warehouse district. Also here are the lots of the Silvery Moon Films studios (located towards the border of the North and Northeast Rim sectors). The heavy industries line the rim of the crater to the west of this area in the Northwest Rim sector and extend outside the rim for those industries requiring vacuum. (a.k.a Northwest Outer).

To the south of the Watchtower in the South Rim sector, surrounded by the unique Kandor Bell species of Dandy (taken as the symbol of the place) is the Nekomi Institute of Technology. The Supers running it are gradually getting their courses accredited by 'Daneside authorities, with the first full Degrees due to finish in May 2014. Already N.I.T. is becoming known for its wide variety of clubs, especially its Motor Club which currently holds the record for the fastest ground level circumnavigation of Luna at the equator. Also in this area are the various sports facilities of the city, including a full ski slope.

The new business and shopping district is in the Southwest Main sector. This contains the high-rise office buildings of the various companies in the City, with the new shops taking up the floors near street level. On the border between this sector and the Southwest Core sector is the entertainment district.

The current residential district takes up the Southeast Rim section. This area is filled with multi-storey mansions owned by various factions and high-rise apartment buildings. What most people don't realise is that Kandor builds underground, allowing an awful lot of space that normally wouldn't be available.

Under construction on the border of the South and Southeast Core zones near the centre of the dome is the Trinity Towers arcology. This is a modified version of the Sky City concept from Takenaka Corporation. Being built to the Japanese building code in respect of the country the design came from, the three 2km tall 'cities in a building' will dominate the surrounding landscape. When finished in late 2014, each will provide housing for 75,000 people, and workspace for another 100,000. The three towers would be linked by an upper core housing the cities internal airport and main embassies. The Japanese government is officially watching the project, which may gain Clark Universal Construction an Earth-side contract.

One of Kandor City's nicknames is the Green City, and it isn't due to the fact that it's named after a Kryptonian City. Kandor City is a wonder of recycling and reclamation, and it has terraformed most of the area under the dome. The most impressive part of this is the creek-fed Lake Tezuka in the exact center of the dome. The creeks are part of the terraforming maintenance system, which is part and parcel of the city's life support system. Despite some worries it's not *really* part of the central water reclamation system, though it's tied in. The whole point of the creeks is to create at least a theoretically self-sustaining water cycle inside the dome that allows the wildlife to thrive without constant attention. As of 2014 Kandor City's terraforming is still in the sagebrush-and-jackrabbits stage, but so far so good. Current plans for the rest involve subsequent local terraforming to make arable land and induce a permanent 1G area for cattle. The Mars and Venus Terraforming Projects are watching carefully.

Edit: Matched Watchtower sizes

[M Fnord]

http://fnord.sandwich.net/fenspace/kand ... rough).jpg]First pass at the Daniell Crater site. Added an extra creek and made a first run at the main light rail line running around the rim.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Feinan]

I worry about my brain, sometimes.... I saw this:

As of 2014 Kandor City's terraforming is still in the sagebrush-and-jackrabbits stage, but so far so good.

And my brain immediately started reading that as 'sagebrush-and-jackalopes stage.' Just for a second....but it did. What's worse is when it
immediately thereafter went, "Hmm, you know...."

Looking good, though. I've been following the thread with interest...but then, I've always loved the idea of domed cities.

[robkelk]

Er...

The Watchtower is the oldest structure on Luna, and lifts a remarkable 1400m from the surface among its sprawling supports on the south-western lip of the crater.

...

The Watchtower is the oldest structure on Luna, and lifts a remarkable 1600m from the highest point of the south-western lip of the crater.

Either number is okay with me, but it can't be both...

 
 
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Norgarth]

And due to the greater size things are feeling quite empty in there now.

Well, you could designate some of it as (future) farmland, for when the terraforming gets far enough along.
___________________________
"I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific." - George Carlin

[M Fnord]

Have a transit map:

(right click for full version... you should know the drill by now)

There are four seperate lines mapped out here. The Gold Line is the main rim line, connecting pretty much everything around the crater. The Red Line is the main downtown loop, running from the Old Kandor station down into the newer urban areas and then back up to the southern GL station. The Blue Line is an express track running from the spaceport station down along Moebius Creek to the Trinity Towers station, where it connects with the RL. The Green Line is similar, linking the southeastern residential districts to the urban loop.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Foxboy]

HM. Jusenkyo already has an association in Fenspace, with the Boskone Slaver Biomod center... Might this also have to do with "relocation" of former
'danes who are not allowed back dirtside due to their biomods? Like a "Nerima Ward" residential area for the catgirled and accidental cyborg
schoolgirls? Say the Home for Wayward Catgirls is there? Y'know, like a halfway house where "old hands" help relative newbies get comfortable in
their bodies again.

It might be one of the lower-rent areas in Kandor, since even with folks KNOWING they didn't choose to be catgirls, there is still a "stigma"
even if only in the minds of the catgirled.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Cobalt Greywalker]

robkelk wrote (with respect to the Watchtower sizes being different):

Either number is okay with me, but it can't be both...

Oops. Thought I caught that. The Watchtower is going to be 1600m tall (almost a mile). Thanks.

[Cobalt Greywalker]

And due to the greater size things are feeling quite empty in there now.

Well, you could designate some of it as (future) farmland, for when the terraforming gets far enough along.

 

It is. There's a line at the end of the terraforming bit about teh plans to make the rest arable and grazing land.

(N.B. Wow. Looks like the board can do nested quotes now.)

[Cobalt Greywalker]

Foxboy wrote:

---

HM. Jusenkyo already has an association in Fenspace, with the Boskone Slaver Biomod center... Might this also have to do with "relocation" of
former 'danes who are not allowed back dirtside due to their biomods? Like a "Nerima Ward" residential area for the catgirled and accidental
cyborg


schoolgirls? Say the Home for Wayward Catgirls is there? Y'know, like a halfway house where "old hands" help relative newbies get comfortable
in their bodies again.






It might be one of the lower-rent areas in Kandor, since even with folks KNOWING they didn't choose to be catgirls, there is still a "stigma"
even if only in the minds of the catgirled.

I agree. Making Jusenkyo Station into Nerima Station makes thinks seem nicer. Home for Wayward Catgirls? Nice.

Hum... If we're going to have things out here, might as well have an actual School. Any ideas for names? (Furinkan is a bit obvious.)

[robkelk]

Hum... If we're going to have things out here, might as well have an actual School. Any ideas for names? (Furinkan is a bit obvious.)

Let's see... We've already got references to Siegel, Shuster, and Kirby, but there's more than a few important Golden-Age DC Comics creators we've missed... How about "Gil Kane Memorial High"?

 
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Foxboy]

With As much of Kandor as has been laid out.... we may just need an adventure frame for the GURPS 4th ed that takes place entirely within the dome.

Also... Police Uniforms taken from one of the Comics Movies/cartoons of the Late 20th? While the Shirow-designed Tank Police dress uniforms are nice, they
might not have the OOMPH the Gotham City PD's uniforms from Batman Begins or the first Superman Movie...

Because, random tech aside, Kandor is probably the most 'Danelike city in Fenspace. Well, at least, the city in Fenspace a 'Dane would be most
comfortable in, phobias about the integrity of the dome notwithstanding. And is probably the "safest" city as far as violent crime goes anywhere that
humans live.
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[M Fnord]

*looks up*

You know, the only reason I called that station Jusenkyo was that it was positioned right next to the spring that fed Takahashi Creek. That's it; no
ulterior motives for wayward catgirls, just a tiny tip of the hat towards Takahashi's most (im)famous creation.

As for the layout, I'm not going to stop until I've at least got all the streets in Old Kandor and the downtown area laid out, if not all named. Moo
hoo ha ha ha.
Mr. Fnord interdimensional man of mystery

FenWiki - Your One-Stop Shop for Fenspace Information

"I. Drink. Your. NERDRAGE!"

[Foxboy]

'S Cool.

Anyway. Linkage for the source of the "Home for Wayward Catgirls:" Linky
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll