[RFP] Competition for Replacement of Zig Fighter

[Dartz]

That thing's *huge*. That's big enough to be a cruiser..... and oddly light. (It's the Size of an SR-71 - and about a fifth of the weight). It might be a bit too big for a Zig replacement..... like the Bellecom entries. Brilliant, but just not the right size.... it could *carry* a zig fighter or two it's that big.

--------

"Oh this is a bad idea."

Daryl couldn't help but look up. Even the Virtual image of the wing above her was too close for comfort.

"Two meters," reported Anika.

Flying through space, 2 meters apart, at .15c

Fifty-five tons of Waved-Steel Mig, within touching distance of her carbon-shelled egg. The missile hardpoint was a knife-edge.

"Autopilot steady. Locked on course," Mackie added calmly, from the cockpit of the Mig. "Autotrim programmed."

Easy for him to be so calm, thought Daryl. If they collided, the Mig wouldn't even feel it.

"Go for docking maneuver," Anika concluded.

"Roger. Commencing Dock,"

Daryl focused on the heads-up display on front of her, guiding her forward a few centimetres at a time. Gentle chidings on the throttle nudged the light fighter forwards, keeping the green indicators on her visor between a pair of projected lines. To far to the left, and the field vortex coming off the wing-tip would pick the little fighter up and throw it into the bottom of the Mig if it didn't just tear it apart outright. Too far to the right, and she'd hit steel. This was threading the needle, at fifteen percent lightspeed.

"This is a bad idea," she repeated, nudging closer.

One metre, reported the radar.

"One metre," Anika concurred.

The red line for her course slipped between the parrallel yellow lines of the target. A horizontal bar for the approach slope encouraged her to pitch up, keeping the pipper of her targetting retical on the correct approach.

Daryl held her breath. If they could dock with this, she assured herself, they could dock with anything. It'd be so much easier on a Blackbird or B-36, which was actually designed for the stunt with automatic guidance hardware. Not a reconnassance cruiser with a few bits bolted onto an underwing missile hardpoint.

Another nudge on the throttles pushed the docking pylon over her head. One, two, three lights on her HUD counted down to the correct alignment, a crosshairs in the corner of her vision zeroing showing the final fine adjustments to be made. RCS thrusters cannoned, shaking the lightweight spacecframe, nudging it perfectly into alignment. A click on the trimmer switch set the controls, allowing her to relax a moment, saving some headspace for the final dock.

Deep breath.

Another burst from the RCS slowly nudged her up, closing the distance further. A electronic chirp warned her that the wingtips were getting dangerously close to turbulent flow. Daryl swallowed.

"Retracting Wings."

She felt the bolts unlock, servomotors whining as both wings rolled backwards until they pointed vertical. A trim adjustment on the tail kept the fighter flying straight and level. Both carbon wings swept forwards, closing in around her like blinkers on a horse. The sensation of being partially blinded twisted another knot into her stomach, even as her HUD still showed her extact position. Two more jolts announced that both wings had locked in their stowed position, answered by red lights shining on the panel in front of her.

A quick glance at her HUD showed she was still bang on course. With the wings retracted, she'd lost most of her roll authority, and some of her yaw control. She hoped she wouldn't need too much of either.

"Wings locked." she reported. "Commencing Final."

A final, gentle nudge on the thrusters pressed her up, a wave of turbulence sending a sudden judder through the carbon spaceframe around her. She could feel the etherflow catching on the nacelle above her. Instinctively, she nosed down on the control-stick to compensate. For one heart-stopping moment, nothing happened. Visions of the nose rearing up and smashing her into the bottom of the wing danced through her mind as she fought with the urge to slam the column forward.

She felt the nose droop, and released the pressure. Just enough to compensate for the etherflow coming off the leading edge of the wing in front. Not too much.

"Easy," she mumbled to heself. "Easy...."

"Fifty centimetres," Anika's voice tickled her ear. "All indicators green."

Daryl scanned her HUD. No warning lights. All her indicators shimmying around the centres of exactly where they should be. A tap on the rudder her, a nudge of elevator there. Daryl held her breath and fired the thrusters for the final time.

"40," Anika announed.

The canopy around her roared as it passed throw the etherflow, the pressure on the spaceframe easing momentarily, before reversing direction. Daryl compensated. Too much, and the nose would catch the flow and slam her up into the wing. Have both wings folded didn't help. It was a war between her judgement, and what the indicators on her HUD told her she had to do, skimming against the thresholds of the approach slope.

"30,"

Left. Steady. Up, Steady.

"20,"

Stay on target. Stay on target.

"10,"

Just a few seconds..."

She felt the jolt, rattling her whole body. Metal scrapped against carbon, buzzing through her fingertips and her flightsuit anchors as docking-pins searched for their home. Every fibre of her body revolted against the sensation, feeling more like her bones were grinding together.

Everything stopped.

An alarm sounded in her ear.

"Hard dock," Anika reported. "Engaging clamps."

"Zeroing controls. Preparing for engine shut down,"

Darly allowed herself to breath for the first time in over a minute, resting her head back against the seat. She closed her eyes and listened to the engine spool down behind her, to be replaced by the whine of the inertial gyroscopes behind her. A few moment's peace allowed her to finally let go of the controls.

"That was fun," Mackies voice intruded.

"Never again," she answered.

But, with a little luck, maybe this quick and dangerous demonstration of being able to dock with *anything*, might at least encourage the bean-counters to throw a few their way to cover development costs. It wasn't about winning, not for them - the win was always going to go to someone like BAT, or maybe Damogran if they made the deadline.

For Daryl, it was just about getting to the point where she got paid for the work she'd done to date. Meet the spec. Get the stamp. Get your cost-plus, then use that to roll into the next one.

---------------
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[JakeGrey]

That thing's *huge*. That's big enough to be a cruiser..... and oddly light. (It's the Size of an SR-71 - and about a fifth of the weight). It might be a bit too big for a Zig replacement..... like the Bellecom entries. Brilliant, but just not the right size.... it could *carry* a zig fighter or two it's that big.
 

Hmmm. I may need to work on the details a bit. Although a lot of that internal volume is taken up by fuel tanks because with the afterburners engaged, the Viper and the Cobra manage the rare feat of having worse mileage than the Ga-15

[HRogge]

That thing's *huge*. That's big enough to be a cruiser..... and oddly light. (It's the Size of an SR-71 - and about a fifth of the weight). It might be a bit too big for a Zig replacement..... like the Bellecom entries. Brilliant, but just not the right size.... it could *carry* a zig fighter or two it's that big.
 

Hmmm. I may need to work on the details a bit. Although a lot of that internal volume is taken up by fuel tanks because with the afterburners engaged, the Viper and the Cobra manage the rare feat of having worse mileage than the Ga-15

Would be a funny fact if they build the Cobra MK1 by pumping up a baloon and then waving it to get a rigid surface... still, engines and fuel tanks have mass. Okay, fueltanks with liquid hydrogen inside are very light per volume (only 70 kg/m^3).

Five minutes after this hits the Interwave, Kuat Drive Yards offers up the X-Wing...

This doesn't say much...

is it a movie X-wing like model made from paper? A WW2 double-decker names X-Wing? Something else?

(edit) were they stupid enough to enter their Boskone War time machine to the contest?

Kuat Drive Yards is the Warsie shipbuilding facility on Mars.

Which says nothing about what kind of design the X-Wing is.

[robkelk]

This doesn't say much...

is it a movie X-wing like model made from paper? A WW2 double-decker names X-Wing? Something else?

(edit) were they stupid enough to enter their Boskone War time machine to the contest?

Kuat Drive Yards is the Warsie shipbuilding facility on Mars.

Which says nothing about what kind of design the X-Wing is.

Since I have no idea what you mean by "Boskone War time machine", there's plenty of confusion to go around...

I'm drawing on firmly-established canon here. Yes, it's one of the first three designs mass-produced in Fenspace (along side the Trekkies' Type-7 Shuttle and the Sammies' Bolitho), but that doesn't make it obsolete.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[HRogge]

Since I have no idea what you mean by "Boskone War time machine", there's plenty of confusion to go around...

The earliest mention of X-wings was (I think) during the Boskone War.

I'm drawing on firmly-established canon here. Yes, it's one of the first three designs mass-produced in Fenspace (along side the Trekkies' Type-7 Shuttle and the Sammies' Bolitho), but that doesn't make it obsolete.

Do you have any performance data in mind for the X-wing? A picture if it does NOT look like an X-Wing from the SW movies?

[robkelk]

They're Warsies. Why would they build something that didn't look or act like an X-Wing out of the movies and then call it an X-wing? That would be like the Trekkies building something that doesn't look or act like a ST shuttlecraft and calling it a shuttle.

And I notice that Dartz didn't ask these questions either time that I posted that...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Dartz]

So:
Kuwat Yards X-Wing
S-B Vampire
Solaris-YLF6
CGI F61 Trident
BAT Dragonfly
Asagiri LF-162 Wasp
JHSI Viper

That's 7 so far. Any got any particular preferences? or will I just roll a few D6 for it?
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[Rajvik]

Thats all of them but I don't know about just rolling for it, that said its probably the most honest since we all have a bias towards whatever we created ourselves. I know I do.
 

[JakeGrey]

Made a slight change to my entry to make the weight a bit saner. Also:

Host: "... first up on this week's show, we have lead engineer Hank Ward and design consultant Tom Rutley from the Viper Interceptor project here to talk about their entry in the Zig Replacement Contest. Welcome to the podcast, gentlemen."
Hank: "Glad to be here, Joe."
Host: "So, fellas... You're not exactly shooting for a like-for-like replacement here, are you? I mean, with a few minor design tweaks you could fit a brace of Zigs inside the Viper; in fact, didn't Tom do just that a few times in the war with the original Cobra?"
Tom: "Only as cargo, but yeah. And we most certainly aren't going for a like-for-like replacement, otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to sign on with the project as a consultant. The Zig was a wartime expedient, and the product of extreme desperation to boot; we needed to put together a comprehensive, professional air force with standardised equipment in a big hurry and on a tight budget, and you know the old saying."
Host: "Fast, cheap, good: Pick two."
Tom: "Got it in one."
Hank: "The Zig's not that bad in a lot of ways, of course; it's fast, it's easy to fly and easy to fix. But a lot of compromises had to be made, the big one being the lack of armour."
Host: "But didn't its speed and manoueverability make up for it?"
Tom: "Not really. The Zig's what gamers would call a One Hit-Point Wonder; punch a hole just about anywhere in the fuselage proper and you'll hit something important. And you can punch a hole in those things with nothing fancier than a gimpy- sorry, a General Purpose Machine Gun, like an M-60 or similar. A proper anti-aircraft weapon would turn a Zig into confetti."
Host: "Fortunately, the Boskones didn't have many of those."
Hank: "They didn't, but they ain't the only bad guys in town."
Host: "You're thinking of the 'Danelaw?"
Tom: "Not necessarily, although it's not just the nice stable First World countries back Earthside who are getting into the 'wavetech business. But one of these days were going to find ourselves with a peer competitor to the Convention out here, be it a major power from Earth, one of our factions that's decided to go it alone or even an alien race. That requires different weapons and tactics to fighting a loose coalition of warlords and gangsters."
Host: "Thank you, Tom. So, moving on to some of the more technical aspects of the design proposal. Hank, could you tell us a little about the Viper's capabilities...?"

[robkelk]

That's 7 so far. Any got any particular preferences? or will I just roll a few D6 for it?

"... While it is of the utmost importance that no compromises be made in the performance of the craft and the safety of the crew, and the Fenspace Convention Authority acts only in an advisory capacity to other Fenspace Convention organizations, we would appreciate it if we did not have to explain to the factions why there is an appearance that the Galactic Republic faction is being favoured by Great Justice. The Fenspace Convention Authority also notes that the Viper proposal appears to be more expensive than the other candidates, which would limit the number the Fenspace Convention as a whole could deploy in times of need if this proposal was to be selected. We ask that you take these factors into consideration when making your decision. -Rob Donaldson, Fenspace Convention Authority, Luna"

(Once again, politics and bean-counting collide with military procurement ... or do they? )
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[HRogge]

Whats about training?

"Jenny, Jenny… they send a reply!"

"I am already reading it… training? They are asking about more details how to train pilots?"

"I told you we should have worked with a two-seater base!"

"No, we should NOT. We discussed it for a few moments and decided that it costs too much room and mass" Jenny replied. "I wonder if we should tell them they could train pilots in simulation mode?"

"I don't think this will work… they want to do this in real space and most GJ bases don't have the computer power the Little Big Bang Labs have."

"Damned, you are right" Jenny said and sighed. "Okay friends, brainstorming time… we need to formulate a reply that doesn't require a redesign!"

***

…

As you already know, the F-61 is a pure fly by wire system, which means it is easy to restrict speed, acceleration or other parameters for training.

To address your other concerns about the ease of pilot training, we put together a couple of suggesting based on a project we call 'virtual pilot', developed for our Space Exocomps.

The 'virtual trainer' system calls for an slightly larger computer core, which will allow the F-61 to run a remote controlled avatar in the fighter. This avatar can either take control of the fighter itself or manifest as an image in the virtual cockpit, giving advice to the pilot flying the craft. As long as you activate the additional software with the keypad when booting the computer, training mode should not be able to activate or deactivate during flight as a security measure.

When controlling a fighter remotely, we suggest using another F-61 as the control station, either a dedicated unit in a hangar or a craft that is running on autopilot.

We have put together three variants for connecting the F-61 with the controller of the avatar. We call them "cheap, reliable and comfort".

The cheapest method would use the normal F-61 communication array to connect the two systems. This means that no further hardware is required, but both units have to stay within a thousand kilometers to keep the signal delay down.

The reliable method would use an upgraded Space Exocomp chassis as a companion drone for a group of trainees. The Exocomp's quantum entanglement system can keep a faster than light communication with the base, which allows low delay control links.

The comfort mode would call for a small box that will be put into the maintenance access area of the F-61. The box contains its own dedicated quantum entanglement link, making the connection between the fighter and the base independent from third parties. We would suggest to share a few communication boxes between multiple fighters used for training to keep the cost down.

All three methods should work with any F-61 fighter that has been put into 'training mode' before launch, there should be no internal changes required to enable them.

=======
(edit)

I think Stellvia will be quite familiar with the "cheap" method...

[Dartz]

From: 'Jet Jaguar'
To: soc.military.starfighters

RE: The entrants are in. A few surprises, and surprise ommissions
---------
The 162's not a glass cannon, not by a longshot. A glass cannon relies on being powerful enough to kill the enemy, before its weakness is exposed. The 162 might not be able to take much in the way of damage, but it doesn't have to. It's got the energy advantage and the maneuverabiliy advantage, it's got control of the engagement, able to break off from the opponents it can't outfight. It's a Wasp - small, hard to swat, and with a nasty sting in it's tail.

Iif you're something the size of a Zig, getting hit by just about anything attached to a modern fighteris going to be a fairly catastrophic event. Adding enough armour to tank a hit from 30mm shell means a bigger spacecraft, means more engines, and more fuel which means more armour in a vicious cycle. Eventually, you end up with something like this - 50 tons of battlesteel and lunar titanium that has a turning circle measured in AU, and a price that'd make a Scott think twice.

That's the tyranny of armour.

The Wasp's all about adding lightness and then simplifying. Because being lighter is a virtuous circle. It means we don't need a hydraulic system, and can use a lighter, less powerful engine that's more reliable. We can put more weaponry on it, or go further on less fuel. There's less to go wrong, less systems to be damaged. There's less to be fixed or maintained.

Survivability's about more than just taking a bullet and walking away. I think it's better not to be hit in the first place, which means being as hard to hit as possible.

---------
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[Rajvik]

“Aha,” Loviatar heard James shout and looked from the kitchen at her husband sitting in his office chair squeezing a stress ball and staring at the trio of computer screens in front of him.

“Aha what dear?” she asked the wolf biomod

“Aha I found the problem,” her husband answered. “Not that I know how to fix the damn coding but I can spot the problem easily enough. Some lazy bastard ripped the code straight out of the F-14 targeting system that we were basing the system off of.” The look Loviatar gave her husband must have shown her confusion because he continued talking as he started to type on the keyboard in front of him. “Our bird has a Rate of Fire of three hundred rounds per minute, the program was accounting for a couple thousand rounds per minute travelling at a completely different rate of speed. I’m actually surprised that the test pilot actually hit anything that wasn’t at point blank range. Though honestly guns are a knife fighting range weapon anyway,” he finished.

Loviatar thought about it for a minute and shrugged. “So what are you doing now?” she asked.

“Sending programming a request for an update patch so that I can mail it to the test board with an apology mail and a promise that if they do purchase the Bat that any future systems will have already had the patch installed.” He answered. Loviatar simply nodded at this and returned to the kitchen rubbing her slightly swollen stomach.
***

From: Solaris 7 Systems (S7S@OTRS.net)
To: soc.military.starfighters

Ladies and Gentlemen;
It has been brought to our attention at Solaris 7 Systems that our WC4 targeting system was not operating up to specifications in the YLF-6 space fighter. For this we apologize, review of the system has found that the problem resides in a coding error that does not adjust the targeting pip for either the rate of fire from the 20 millimeter rotary coilguns, or the speed of the round in flight. Attached to this message is a patch for the system you have in testing to fix this problem. If the convention sees fit to purchase the fighter future systems will have the patch preinstalled in all future units at no additional cost per unit.

Sincerely yours;
James Bostwick, Solaris 7 Systems
 

[HRogge]

From: 'Jennyr'
To: soc.military.starfighters

RE: Glass Cannons (was: RE: The entrants are in. A few surprises, and surprise ommissions)

This 'tyranny of armor' is exactly why you need a kinetic shield... no, a fighter shield will not be strong enough to protect you from the heavy anti-fighter hitters... but it will work as a Whipple Shield that breaks up the incoming projectile and allows your armor to soak it up without being penetrated. The same mechanism will also give you a much better protection against fragmentation warheads, which are really popular in anti-fighter weapons.

Yes, you need agility... but pure agility just means you rely on "I am always the aggressor and shoot first" or "I am lucky enough not being shot". Both are not really a good mindset for fighter pilots.

Jenny

[JakeGrey]

From: 'Old Man Tom'
To: soc.military.starfighters

RE: Glass Cannons (was: RE: The entrants are in. A few surprises, and surprise ommissions)

I have to second Jennyr's point on this. Nobody's expecting a hypothetical Zig replacement to take a direct hit from an AMRAAM and keep fighting, but like I alluded to on the podcast the other day, we're not looking at throwing cheap expendable ships flown by -let's face it- cheap expendable pilots at a problem out of desperation anymore; training standards have been tightened up considerably and training costs have gone up as a result, which means aircrew are no longer a renewable resource. At a bare minimum, we need a design that won't fall apart from a glancing hit with a 20-30mm autocannon until after you've had time to grab the eject handle.

Besides, the Zig isn't so hot on the "cannon" part either, certainly not for the secondary ground-attack role we're going to need an aircraft for one day. Can you even attach a couple of thousand-pound bombs to a Zig without breaking something? I certainly wouldn't want to fly one if you did.

[Dartz]

From: 'Jet Jaguar'
To: soc.military.starfighters

RE: Glass Cannons.

Fragile and simple does not mean expendable. Neither the craft, nor the pilot.

The Wasp will still carry AGM's - and if you absolutely have to go tank plinking, a 40mm railgun. But it's not built for it.

The more roles we ask something to take, the more complex it will be. Complexity is our enemy. We don't want to go there. Let the UNIX philosophy hold. Everything has one job, and everything does that one job really well. Rather than a few expensive, overcomplicated jack-of-all trades that get whipped by the specialists when it's not being preened in the hangar.

The Wasp is designed to be easy to build, cheap to maintain and deadly when defending its home, or the bomber it's a parasite on. It had to be simple to build, otherwise we couldn't afford to build it ourselves. It had to be lethal, otherwise there was no point in having it. So something had to give. Adding armour add's complexity, and adds cost. It means more engine, more complex controls, more advanced software.... like I said, all of this gets exponential.

So, the more complexity we add on top of things, the harder it will be for ordinary people to buy them and maintain them at a properly, the less of them we'll have to spread around. Which means longer response times to threats. Which means even more parts of Fenspace relying on older and genuinely kevorkianesque machinery that absolutely won't be up to the task.

There's also the phrase, 'quantity is a quality all of it's own'. And that doesn't mean a callouse disregard for redshirts. The simple fact is, there is safety in numbers. Numbers in the sky are a masive force multiplier. Numbers let you harry and harrass a single enemy, concentrate on them and swarm them into submission, while making it harder and harder for that enemy to swat you down because swarmed enemies can't fight back without exposing their vulnerability to another member of the swarm.

"I am always the aggressor and shoot first"
This is not a design flaw. Generally, in modern spacefights, the one who gets into a firing solution first, is going to win.

All of this is based on my experience during OGJ. I'm not as tough as most Kunstler - I just can't tank damage they way they can. So what? I can take on full-sized battlemovers piloted by cybers with DNI's and A-rank AI's, single handedly, when I know one swipe of an arm might kill me, because I know I can move fast enough to not get hit and hit hard enough to make it count on the one opportunity I'll get. Because I'm faster than all but the motorball players. Armour - or going full-steel, might make me tougher, but it'll slow me down to the point that I have to rely on that toughness more and more to tank damage. Any time I have to tank damage, I'm dying.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[JakeGrey]

From: 'Old Man Tom'
To: soc.military.starfighters

RE: Glass Cannons

I see what you mean, but from my own experience with OGJ and -at the risk of sounding like a braggart- no less than three wars back on Earth, I reckon there is a happy medium between agility and durability. I flatter myself that my esteemed colleagues at John Henry Station Industries have found it.

Also...
> So, the more complexity we add on top of things, the harder it will be for ordinary people to buy them and maintain them properly, the less of them we'll have to spread around.

Is this really an issue with a dedicated combat spacecraft, even in Fenspace? I can see some private security companies wanting to buy a handful of them and you might get a very rare individual order from an asteroid racing team, but they're not going to be something you can mass-produce for retail sales like the Bolithio or those I-Pod things the Soviets came up with a while back. (Or at least I should bloody well hope not!)

[Dartz]

From: 'Jet Jaguar'
To: soc.military.starfighters

>Is this really an issue with a dedicated combat spacecraft, even in Fenspace? I can see some private security companies wanting to buy a handful of them and you might get a very rare individual order from an asteroid racing team, but they're not going to be something you can mass-produce for retail sales like the Bolitho

Retail sale is the whole point. Out here in the Belt, help can be an hour away at best. A lot of people forget that. We've been raided twice on Frigga. The second time, the relief force took so long to show up we'd already started cleaning up the mess by the time they arrived. People need to be able to defend themselves in a crunch, not just rely on Great Justice showing up. We've seen with the United Belt Alliance crap that there's more than just Boskone wolf out here looking to blow over people's houses.

We're not the only ones. It's better that people out here have something to rely on that's cheap to own, easy to maintain and can actually stop an attack, than having a squadron of golden unicorns patrolling an hour away.

While there is always a balance between firepower and protection, at this sort of price-point, something has to give way. If we armoured the Wasp, there's no way it could carry weapons with enough punch to damage an enemy fighter and still maneuver as fast. If we keep the standard armament, and up-armour, we loose speed. Not only does that make us an easier target to hit - especially by weapons that render armour irrelevant like that rotary coilgun thing - it makes it harder to get a good firing solution on the enemy.

When it comes right down to it, you need to be able to stop the enemy. In priority, armaments will always outstrip protection. There's no point in having protection, if your armament is too weak to do anything. In it's own way, good armament provides protection, by stopping the enemy before they can get into a position to hurt you. Being small and made mostly of composites means enemy fighters have a harder time getting a solid lock without getting closer. Being maneuverable makes dodging a missile trivial. Being able to carry the exact same kind of missile, means being able to slay giants.

----------

Meta There's something peculiarly familiar about parts this argument.... but I can't quite put my finger on it.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[JakeGrey]

From: 'Old Man Tom'
To: soc.military.starfighters

RE: Glass Cannons

Frigga's something of a special case, though, because you're a high-value military target and have lots of valuable loot. Your average asteroid miner is a different matter; if they were getting roughed up on a regular basis then that shitweasel Mason wouldn't have had to hire so many heavies to give his little protection racket the necessary verisimilitude. I'm not saying they don't have a legitimate reason to keep some predator-defence firepower around, mind you, but I can't really see a financial case for dedicated fighters that can't be used for anything else. A reasonably fast utility craft with a cargo bay and a couple of 30mm coilguns just in case is probably better value for money and mass-budget.

And I tell you what. The Viper prototype's almost ready for a combat trial; why don't we try a couple of 1v1 exercises? With simunitions only, I hasten to add, we haven't got that personal yet. ;-)

----------

Me too. But a guy who went Up with a 4.5-inch gun strapped to his ship would tend to have a rather nuanced view of gun control.

[Dartz]

From: 'Jet Jaguar'
To: soc.military.starfighters...

RE: A Challenges (Was Glass Cannons)

There's an old saying... It's better to be looking at it, than looking for it. And a dedicated fighter spacecraft will always outperform a transport with knives on it. The one thing you absolutely need to perform when it counts is whatever you trust to save your home.

Anyway, speaking of a 1v1, it'll have to be in virtual space, but we're more than up for it.
________________________________
--m(^0^)m-- Wot, no sig?

[JakeGrey]

From: 'Old Man Tom'
To: soc.military.starfighters...

RE: A Challenges (Was Glass Cannons)

Hah! Maybe I should show you what my "transport with knives on it" can do in a simulator. (Although in G-ELTE's case I must concede they're unusually large and sharp knives.)

Any road up, someone at JHSI will be in touch to sort out a date and time.

[HRogge]

From: 'Cathy at Jenga'
To: soc.military.starfighters

Re: A Challenges

if you two trust me not to spoil the fun for Jenny and her team from the Labs I could offer simulation time at the Jenga mainframe for a couple of dogfights in different environments and situations. I think you will find our physics simulation engine is pretty realistic.

Old Man Tom:
I have to agree with Jet, military usage is not really a space for customized civil frames. They often look good on paper but they (sometimes literally) break apart later. I remember an earlier experiment when one of our simulated prototypes came apart when the additional engine power produced a standing wave in one of the fuel tanks... the explosion was quite spectacular!

Cathy

Catgirl Industries - breaking apart toys in simulation since 2015!

[Rajvik]

From: Wolfboy
To: soc.military. starfighters

Tom, I also have to agree with Jet. However, that doesn't mean that you can't have a military frame that works on the civilian market. I'll take you up on the simulation fight as well, make it a four for all amd send the rresults to the board for their perusal. Just let me know when.
 

[HRogge]

From: Jenny at LBBL
To: Jerry at Jenga
CC: Cathy at Jenga
X-Encrypt: OTP-109271927
X-Security: Destroy-if-compromised

Subject: Upcoming simulation testing

Hi Jerry,

I have sent you a full Skilltech package about my piloting tests with the new space fighter I am working on, together with the latest simulation package. With these you should be able to do the mock battle Cathy suggested without much trouble. Please test responsiveness and user interface for the ion boost and the lateral thrust system for me, I would like to get some more feedback.

Cathy, you are a really mean kitty, you certainly know I cannot get to Jenga for this simulation battle because I would spend two weeks in transit! I have work to do here at the labs, otherwise GJ will just ignore our new fighter!

Jenny

[HRogge]

From: Jerry at Jenga
To: soc.military. starfighters

Subject: Mock battles are fun!

Hi everyone and thank you for getting enough virtual fighters together for this long mock battle yesterday. I don't know what you think, but I had a lot of fun. Cortana has already posted some number-heavy analysis (within the limits we all agreed on), so I will just post a few personal thoughts.

- the Wasp is deadly... either to targets when the pilot is an expert or to the rookie pilot. I discovered the second part when we swapped fighters for some time.
- beam laser cannons are fun to pop "Glass Cannons"... but I think they tend to smear the damage over larger parts of an armored surface.
- sideways strafing is not easy to get right without practice, even with the Third Eye support.
- all these gattling guns are really loud!

I am already looking forward to see the real prototypes!

Jerry