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05-25-2009, 07:26 AM

okay, so Gir (Invin/SS/enrgy) is geting close to 50, and i have been doing better with IO's than i did with DS, but i recon i still need some help.

this is what i have sloted so far.

6 Titanium coatin in Temp invurability (6 sloted)

5 Aegis in Unyeilding (6 sloted)

4 Luck of the gambilar in Invincibility (6 sloted)

5 force feedbacks in Knok out Blow (5 sloted)

5 adjusted targeting in Rage ( 5 sloted)

now i know i could get mids or something to help, but i would rather hear how players have sloted thier tanks and how what works for them.

Wiregeek · 05-25-2009, 11:38 AM

get Mids, seriously.

I don't know inv from beans, and I just got home from fishing (at 1:30 am), so I'll do it tomorrow 8 P
"No can brain today. Want cheezeburger."
From NGE: Nobody Dies, by Gregg Landsman
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5579457/1/NGE_Nobody_Dies

Acyl · 05-25-2009, 11:40 AM

Quick post. I'm talking general theory here rather than specifics. Also this is entirely my opinion, and while I'm working on an IO'd tank right now, the character itself is only 25 and obviously I haven't slotted most of the stuff I've gathered yet. So most of what I'm saying comes from the position of a guy who likes tinkering with IOs, rather than a tank expert as such. Thus this is general comments rather than specific directon.
First thing I'd like to say - looking at what you've got there - I like what I see. It's a very good start.
Let me ask a basic question, though. This is kinda a step back, but - it's the zero position you gotta consider. And it's this. Why do you use IOs?
There are two answers. One is set bonuses, the other is to get more percentage efficiency from the power. This is important. Your set bonuses are good, very good. But your current slotting isn't efficient power-wise - you're obviously not getting as much as you could from Knockout Blow, and a lot of the slots in Temp Invul aren't doing anything for the power as such.
Yes, the set bonuses are sexy, but the slot usage itself isn't that efficient.
It's a trade off. What choices you make...that depends, and it'll affect the kind of answers you get to this question. You probably already realise you gotta balance those two tensions, but in gunning for set bonuses, don't lose sight of the other factor.
Okay. Anyway. Assuming you do lean in favour of set bonuses, which is fine...then you gotta ask...
What set bonuses do you want? That's important. It's better to stack a few similar set bonuses to greatly boost one or two areas... much better than having a ton of unrelated tiny set bonuses. The range of bonuses you have right now is great, but it's something to think about when you start doing up your other powers.
There are a few types of bonus/slotting that benefit an Inv tank.
1. More defence - an Inv is actually a hybrid set, you have resistances and scaling defence from Invincibility. Slotting for +resistance isn't that efficient, but you can add a lot of +def, and this can make you very hard to hit indeed. You have some +def bonuses already. Note that the current belief on the official forums is that +def slotting is the best option for an Inv tank. I'm in this school.
2. Regeneration - lots of +regen is very strong on an Inv - precisely because you're so tough due to the resistances and defence, having your health crawl back up pretty fast can be brutal. Terr is slotted more offensively, but he has a considerable amount of regen. Uni's a believer in +regen as well, IIRC - they're quite right. It's very effective.
3. HP - this is the logical second part to +regeneration set bonuses. So you're gaining back a good percentage of your health every second. If you have more total health, your regen goes further. Tanks already have a lot of health. You can add even more. You can add a LOT more.
4. Psionic defense/resistance - it's possible to patch your weakness to psionic damage; you can get pretty damn high psi def/resist. I don't recommend this actually; if you're looking to boost your protection I favour the first two approaches rather than this one. Why? A lot of psi damage isn't pure nonpositional psi - hence normal +def slotting will already help. +regen also helps. Besides, there's not THAT much psi out there...
5. Recharge - strictly speaking, this doesn't help Inv itself as such - beyond making dull pain come up more often. It does grossly boost your damage output - in statistical terms, more than +damage bonuses do... because you can use your best attacks more often. It helps you hold aggro for the same way. One reason why Terr does so much damage for a tank is because he has considerable recharge, and thus can use Knockout Blow and Foot Stomp very often. If you're building a more damage-oriented tank, or a hybrid, this is the way to go.
...here's the thing.
Unless you have a lot of influence, you can't have everything. Even if you have billions, there's a limit to what you can do. So don't try and grab all of the above. Choose what you want to focus on, and excel in that area.
If you wanna do more, there's always a second build.
-- Acyl

05-26-2009, 01:48 AM

thanks Acyl, thats the sort of thing i'm looking for.

Foxboy · 05-27-2009, 08:10 AM

Okay, here's my attempt at a "second build" for Wide, basic philosophy, except for going crazy on the powers that provide Def anyway, is ZOMG DEF CHEAP.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Wide Second Build: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(3) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(11) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 1: Jab

(A) Smashing Haymaker - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance
(33) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Recharge
(34) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Pounding Slugfest - Accuracy/Damage
(42) Pounding Slugfest - Damage/Recharge

Level 2: Punch

(A) Smashing Haymaker - Accuracy/Damage
(5) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance
(33) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Recharge
(34) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(42) Pounding Slugfest - Accuracy/Damage
(42) Pounding Slugfest - Damage/Recharge

Level 4: Dull Pain

(A) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
(5) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(11) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(13) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(13) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance

Level 6: Resist Physical Damage

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(29) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance

Level 8: Unyielding

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 10: Taunt

(A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt
(17) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge
(17) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
(23) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range
(23) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
(25) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range

Level 12: Hurdle

(A) Jumping IO

Level 14: Health

(A) Miracle - +Recovery
(15) Miracle - Heal

Level 16: Kick

(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(46) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(46) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

Level 18: Invincibility

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(21) Luck of the Gambler - Endurance/Recharge

Level 20: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(21) Performance Shifter - EndMod

Level 22: Knockout Blow

(A) Smashing Haymaker - Accuracy/Damage
(31) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
(34) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance
(36) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Recharge
(36) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold

Level 24: Tough

(A) Aegis - Resistance
(29) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(31) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance

Level 26: Tough Hide

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge

Level 28: Rage

(A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(39) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge
(50) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge

Level 30: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge

Level 32: Unstoppable

(A) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(36) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
(37) Impervium Armor - Endurance/Recharge
(43) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Recharge

Level 35: Hurl

(A) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
(37) Devastation - Damage/Recharge
(37) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(40) Devastation - Chance of Hold
(45) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
(46) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 38: Foot Stomp

(A) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(39) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
(45) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
(50) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge

Level 41: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(43) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 44: Super Speed

(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
(45) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance

Level 47: Resist Energies

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(48) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 49: Conserve Power

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

------------
Level 1: Brawl

(A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth

Level 2: Rest

(A) Healing IO

Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

13.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
13.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
13.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
13.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
13.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
13.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
13.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
13.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
16.8% Defense(Smashing)
16.8% Defense(Lethal)
6.13% Defense(Fire)
6.13% Defense(Cold)
9.56% Defense(Energy)
9.56% Defense(Negative)
8.63% Defense(Psionic)
9.88% Defense(Melee)
8.63% Defense(Ranged)
4.56% Defense(AoE)
2.25% Max End
18% Enhancement(Accuracy)
4% Enhancement(Heal)
25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
5% FlySpeed
175.7 HP (9.38%) HitPoints
5% JumpHeight
5% JumpSpeed
MezResist(Held) 3.3%
MezResist(Immobilize) 14.3%
MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
MezResist(Terrorized) 7.7%
5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
68% (5.32 HP/sec) Regeneration
1.26% Resistance(Fire)
1.26% Resistance(Cold)
1.26% Resistance(Energy)
1.26% Resistance(Negative)
3% Resistance(Psionic)
10% RunSpeed

------------
Set Bonuses:
Reactive Armor
(Temp Invulnerability)

MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)

Steadfast Protection
(Temp Invulnerability)

3% Defense(All)

Smashing Haymaker
(Jab)

MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
1.88% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.94% Defense(Melee)

Pounding Slugfest
(Jab)

8% (0.63 HP/sec) Regeneration

Smashing Haymaker
(Punch)

MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
1.88% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.94% Defense(Melee)

Pounding Slugfest
(Punch)

8% (0.63 HP/sec) Regeneration

Doctored Wounds
(Dull Pain)

MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
4% Enhancement(Heal)
5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Reactive Armor
(Resist Physical Damage)

MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)

Reactive Armor
(Unyielding)

MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)

Perfect Zinger
(Taunt)

MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
2.5% DamageBuff(All)
3.13% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Melee)

Miracle
(Health)

2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery

Mako's Bite
(Kick)

MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints

Luck of the Gambler
(Invincibility)

10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Performance Shifter
(Stamina)

5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed

Smashing Haymaker
(Knockout Blow)

MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
1.88% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.94% Defense(Melee)

Lockdown
(Knockout Blow)

3% DamageBuff(All)

Aegis
(Tough)

5% RunSpeed
3.13% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.56% Defense(AoE)

Luck of the Gambler
(Tough Hide)

10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Adjusted Targeting
(Rage)

2% DamageBuff(All)
1.26% Resistance(Energy,Negative)

Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)

10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints (Exceeded 5 Bonus Cap)

Impervium Armor
(Unstoppable)

2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
1.88% Defense(Psionic)
2.25% Max End
3% Resistance(Psionic)

Devastation
(Hurl)

12% (0.94 HP/sec) Regeneration
42.2 HP (2.25%) HitPoints
3% DamageBuff(All)
MezResist(Held) 3.3%
3.75% Defense(Psionic)

Obliteration
(Foot Stomp)

MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
3% DamageBuff(All)
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)

Perfect Zinger
(Foot Stomp)

MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%

Blessing of the Zephyr
(Super Speed)

3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)

Reactive Armor
(Resist Energies)

MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

Acyl · 05-27-2009, 11:49 AM

*points up*
What Foxboy's done is a very good illustration of my points. His build has his individual powers well-slotted for the most part. Even if you ignore the set bonuses, the percentage enhancement he gets from each power is quite good; they have good boosts in many areas. Thus he gets direct benefits from his IO slotting, even without the sets. This build will perform well when exemp'd.
He's got a massive chunk of S/L defense in his bonuses - combined with Invince, Tough Hide, and Weave, he's very hard to hit. What he doesn't have is more +def to energy/negative/fire/cold, which pure +dec-focused Inv tank builds have.
BUT...he does have decent +regen, +hp, and very good +recharge bonuses. Some +damage as well. Nothing spectacular in those respective areas, but a decent way to round out the build.
Seems to me he's placed priority on what he wants, he's achieved that, and then he's rounding out with other areas.
Mind, it looks like he's hitting the five-bonus cap for the 21.1 HP (1.13%) HitPoints bonus though - the Smashing Haymaker and LoTG bonuses are overlapping. If you haven't slotted that already, might be worth dropping an enhancement from one of those and using a standard or something; LoTG pieces can be expensive.
-- Acyl

Acyl · 05-27-2009, 11:55 AM

As an aside:-
Note that slotting for a bit of Energy/Negative defense is worthwhile. Fire/Cold defense is less essential.
The reason is...not counting Mission Architect stuff, pure Fire/Cold damage is pretty rare in the game. Strictly speaking, pure Cold damage is reputedly less common than pure Psi. This is why my own WP brute build has a considerable chunk of En/Neg def, but I didn't place priority on fitting in Fire/Cold.
-- Acyl

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