Thou shalt not....

[Rev Dark]

Why do I get the feeling that the vast majority of douche bags that support the ten commandments dont actually know the ten commandments. To keep the mouth-breathers calm not all those that support the ten commandments are douche bags, but there are numerous douche bags that support the ten commandments. onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmar...dment.html
I give you one such douche bag. I should like to point out that this douche bag is not a mere voice on the internet douche bag; this is what can only be described as a douche bag of authority.
I give you Archbishop Francisco Chimoio. The head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique.
Recently laughing boy rose upon his pulpit and stated that "Condoms are not sure because I know that there are two countries in Europe, they are making condoms with the virus on purpose,"
Thou shalt not. What was it? Oh yes. LIE!
This lying, propped up, douchebag is toeing the party line on condoms and any form of birth control other than punching yourself firmly in the groin and screaming no sex outside marriage! No sex outside marriage!. Condoms are the work of the devil; with viral transmission through unprotected sex being the gift of a benign and loving god. Not only does Francisco call on the authority of his imaginary friend and man-penned holy book, but he is also fucking lying about condoms and trying to vilify the manufacturers. He goes further to also claim that aids vaccines currently being distributed are infected in order to finish off the African people.
Well laughing boy, if I was a genocidal douche bag who was too fucking cowardly to get my hands dirty, I would not use a vaccine; I would do exactly what you are doing tell the people not to use condoms, not to get treatment for their illnesses, and use the least effective means of prophylaxis available (abstinence ie. NONE!) Of course I am not a genocidal douche bag; the Catholic church has not seen fit to raise me to that office which as far as I can tell, is Archbishop and head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique.
Shayne

[Morganite]

Well, he might not actually be lying...
After all, it's not really lying if you're out and out insane.
Seriously, "condoms with the virus"? What the hell? What sort of genocide plan is that? Anyone ought to be able to come up with a better one. (Like, say, the infected vaccines. *That's* a plot one could build a spy movie around. In fact, I might have seen that movie already. '.' )
It might be more accurate to call abstinence the least used method than least effective though... after all, it does work when used. Alas, a lot of people don't seem to be big fans of not having sex.
-Morgan, meets a lot of people he thinks don't -deserve- having sex...
"I'm not a vampire, but I play one on TV."

[Rev Dark]

No. Abstinence is the least effective. It is used all the time; but the failure rate is significant.
Condoms work when used, and have a very, very, small failure rate. Abstinence does work when used but has a very significant failure rate.

[Morganite]

I think we must be working on a different definition of using abstinence.
To me, one is only using it when one doesn't have sex, at all. Once you have sex, you've stopped using abstinence, and it's going to be no more effective than a condom that isn't taken out of the package.
Of course, the key point in this sort of discussion isn't the success rate for an individual so much as how effectively other people can be convinced to do something. Which is where condoms win by a wide margin.
(Not to mention it's more helpful for all those married couples I'd like to see not reproduce...)
-Morgan."Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
---(Not really)

[ECSNorway]

Correct, Morgan.
Which is kind of difficult to expect of people with the kind of poor impulse-control the human race is gifted with. Especially when most societies - including the West - tend to praise male youths for sexual excess, and denigrate women for the same behavior.
It's all very well and good for President Whossname to get up and say "the only sure way to avoid problems is not to do it in the first place" when everyone you know thinks you're a dork if you do what he says.--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Rev Dark]

In the context of this argument abstinence as a large scale strategy of controlling disease. Just as condoms are a different strategy.
As a method of controlling disease abstinence is terrible, as it has a high rate of failure.
As a method controlling disease condoms are an excellent method. The failure rate through manufacturer error/misuse is very, very small.
It if unfortunate that the majority of religious organizations that promote abstinence above all other methods also see fit to decry masturbation and speak out against it as harshly as they do sexual intercourse outside of marriage. Telling people not to masturbate is even less effective than telling them not engage in sex outside marriage - as masturbation does not require collusion.
If the Archbishop stood up and lauded abstinence, with the caveat that everyone could, while awaiting marriage, wank, frug, fingerbang, toss, strum and tickle the little man in the boat; I could almost get behind it (if only to escape the resulting spray); I would not agree with it; but at the very least it is meeting the pressing biological need halfway.
Shayne

[Morganite]

Okay then. Personally I'd use different terminology to differentiate between the practices of individuals and the disease control strategy part. (Which mostly seems to come down to "How effectively can you convince people to do this thing".)
I seem to have missed out on the part with the loudly opposing masturbation. But then, most of my experience in churches has been either a) enough years ago that I no longer remember any of it; b) in a church I wasn't a part of and didn't want to be in, so wasn't inclined to pay heed to; or c) at funerals.
One would think there'd be more important issues to sermonize about though. (I'd love to see a few rounds of "Thou shalt exercise basic courtesy when shopping". *whistles innocently*)
-Morgan."Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
---(Not really)

[ECSNorway]

It's a bit of a surprise to me, too -- I was raised Catholic, complete with Jesuit schools, and the only person who ever even hinted at condemning masturbation was my grandmother, who would always yell if she'd see me in bed with my hands under the covers for any reason - she insisted I sleep with my hands out. (I, being about seven at the time, had no clue what she was talking about...)--
"I give you the beautiful... the talented... the tirelessly atomic-powered...
R!
DOROTHY!
WAYNERIGHT!
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[Foxboy]

The relevant passage of the Bible is the story of Onan. Wherein the whole reason the Church [and whackjob fundies] looks down on homosexuals and masturbation is the waste of that lovely co-religionist-spawning sperm.
*cues Monty Python's "Every Sperm Is Sacred" from The Meaning of Life*
''We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.''

-- James Nicoll

[Morganite]

---

the waste of that lovely co-religionist-spawning sperm.

---

"So, that means that girls can masturbate as much as they want?"
-Morgan."Mikuru-chan molested me! I'm... so happy!"
-Haruhi, "The Ecchi of Haruhi Suzumiya"
---(Not really)