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AHCA does not have enough votes to pass the House
AHCA does not have enough votes to pass the House
#1
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__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
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#2
You just know that tomorrow morning Trump will be furiously tweeting that there were 30 illegal Representatives who fraudulently voted against the bill. Or something equally stupid.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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#3
As I'm typing this, the news on CBC radio is that Trump is telling Congress to pass it today or never pass it at all.

If true, that's a good reason for Congress to set it aside until next week - unless, of course, the POTUS is allowed to give orders to Congress.

EDIT: And now it's been withdrawn.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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#4
And as of 5 PM EDT, Ryan's pulled the bill rather than let it go to a vote without a chance of winning. Trump's ranting already about the Democrats not cooperating.

Also, a news article I was just reading had this line:
Quote:But the President is said to be "agitated" by the process, an aide said, which he thinks is all "political."
Congress, political? Heavens forfend!

What the hell did you think Congress was all about, you incompetent amateur?
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Reply
 
#5
Quote:“The beauty,” Trump told Costa, “is that they
[Democrats] own Obamacare. So when it explodes, they come to us, and we
make one beautiful deal for the people.”
More bigger promises. Eh, they voted for him. Let them deal with him.
Edit: The problem for the GOP now is that they've lost momentum because the procedure they were suing (reconciliation) can only be used once on a certain bill. There are no do overs. This was their best chance to do it and it failed. This sets up a domino effect right now for their priorities.
Edit2:Ryan is now the fall guy.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Reply
 
#6
Bob Schroeck Wrote:Also, a news article I was just reading had this line:
Quote:But the President is said to be "agitated" by the process, an aide said, which he thinks is all "political."
Congress, political? Heavens forfend!

What the hell did you think Congress was all about, you incompetent amateur?

I'm agitated - agitated, I say - by the thought that Trump Hotels are all "tourism"!

ordnance11 Wrote:Edit2:Ryan is now the fall guy.
Ryan, not being the least-intelligent person involved in this process, made sure to emphasize that he was acting on the instructions of the POTUS.

They can try to make him the fall guy, but I doubt that it would stick.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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#7
 Dear fans of this bill: I'm sorry you still have generally affordable, comprehensive healthcare. The horror! The horror!
And now the Toddler-in-Chief is blaming the lack of cooperation of Democrats for the failure to pass the bill.
“We can never undo what we have done. We can never go back in time. We write history with our decisions and our actions. But we also write history with our responses to those actions. We can leave the pain and the damage in our wake, unattended, or we can do the work of acknowledging and fixing, to whatever extent possible, the harm that we have caused.”

— On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World by Danya Ruttenberg
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#8
Since the only one that benefited was the health insurance industry in this bill, I can be sanguine about it.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Reply
 
#9
Quote:And now the Toddler-in-Chief is blaming the lack of cooperation of Democrats for the failure to pass the bill.
And since reconciliation locked the Democrats completely out of the process, this accusation holds about as much water as anything else he says.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Reply
 
#10
Quote:Bob Schroeck wrote:
Quote:And now the Toddler-in-Chief is blaming the lack of cooperation of Democrats for the failure to pass the bill.
And since reconciliation locked the Democrats completely out of the process, this accusation holds about as much water as anything else he says.
What was for the Democrats to cooperate? Trump is trying to find excuses so not to be tarred with the word that is is closer and you take out the "c".
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Reply
 
#11
Trump Administration 2017-2017good night sweet prince
-- ∇×V
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#12
Quote:vorticity wrote:
Trump Administration 2017-2017good night sweet prince
No such luck. Unless the Russia probe turns up something that fits the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors", we are stuck with him until 2020. It's gonna be a long four years. I really should troll Logan Darklighter on his post, but I'll forebear.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Reply
 
#13
Oh, I'm not saying he's out of office.  I'm just saying that his administration is politically dead.  At the rate that they're hemorrhaging political capital, there's gonna be no way to achieve his main priorities.  Trump promised he'd get an Obamacare repeal bill on the first day he got in office. That it was a done deal.  And he couldn't get his own party to support it.
Then he issued the ultimatum that the members were going to have to vote for it, or he'd get 'em voted out.   And it turns out the members of congress called the bluff, and the thing that got 40-some votes to repeal before couldn't even pass the House now.  Thus proving that Congress is not afraid of Trump, or they're more afraid of their own districts.
Not to mention that Paul Ryan, has, through backchannels, basically made it clear to the press that Donald Trump is the person who told him to stop the bill.  That Trump was the one to abandon a major Republican priority entirely.  That Trump was the one who was too weak to push his agenda.  Other sources have said that Trump couldn't convince members because he didn't actually understand the basics of his own bill.  So while Trump has come out with vague threats towards disloyal members of his own party, Congressmen now know that it's safe to ignore the President, because he'll just move on in the face of adversity.  So much for the art of the deal.
This is all in combination with the Russian stuff, and the scandal-of-the-week nature of the current Administration.  People are asking "What did the President know, and when did he know it?" in the first 100 days.  They may have administrative power, but neither the judiciary nor the legislative branches are cooperating at this point, so nothing major can be achieved.  The Trump administration is now a lame duck administration.
-- ∇×V
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#14
One thing I am hoping that comes from this is that the press ends their obsequiousness with Paul Ryan.

Quote:And since reconciliation locked the Democrats completely out of the process, this accusation holds about as much water as anything else he says.

I think is a message for the faithful, "You sent me to do a job, but the democrats won't cooperate."

Quote:So much for the art of the deal.
This is the guy that has managed to make casinos lose money.
“We can never undo what we have done. We can never go back in time. We write history with our decisions and our actions. But we also write history with our responses to those actions. We can leave the pain and the damage in our wake, unattended, or we can do the work of acknowledging and fixing, to whatever extent possible, the harm that we have caused.”

— On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World by Danya Ruttenberg
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#15
Really, I'm wondering what all the Democrats ARE doing about this, because to me it simply looks like they're just giving the Republicans enough rope to hang themselves with it. Or am I wrong?
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#16
Well, they didn't even have to whip votes against this, because there was literally nothing in the shit sandwich of the ACHA that a Democrat would want to vote for.  What they are doing is encouraging grassroots movements to form in Republican districts, so that congress members can be appropriately educated about terrible bills.  Telling people when it would be a good time to have a rally.  Bernie Sanders has been leading that side of it, telling followers when and where to have rallies etc.-- but Schumer and Pelosi and Warren have all be quietly supporting those district actions as well.
There are other Democratic strategies, like when Trump says that Obama put a "tapp" on his phone, that we call for an independent investigation of it.  Because we all know that there's no evidence to be found against Obama, but if we investigate enough, they might find out something about Trump.  So yes, when your opponent hands you such an easy opening, you see how long you can keep the stupid train going.
But this does go back to the rope strategy, which is probably the biggest strategy.  Ryan's fiscal conservatism is not all that popular with the people.  Bannon would just assume backstab Ryan as work with him.  Trump has no idea what he's doing nor does he care, so long he receives adoration at his rallies.  McCain and Graham are old-school, patriotic, anti-commie conservatives, of the Reagan generation.  Newt Gingrich is still floating around with his Contract with America era ethos and evangelical Christian base.  And, there's Mitch McConnell, still hiding in his shell.  So what the hell is the conservative movement now?  These people don't agree on much and don't even like each other.  And they managed to get their party elected as a "majority", but so far as I can tell it's only a theoretical majority because they don't agree on all that much.  So congrats, have some rope, Republicans.
I keep thinking about when John Boehner resigned as Speaker, he walked in the room singing "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah".  He is a smart man to have left all this behind.
-- ∇×V
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#17
V, your post reminds me that Canada went through the exact same process a couple of decades ago - the party on the right became unpopular, then couldn't get elected, then splintered, then the two parties couldn't get elected, then the breakaway party did get elected and absorbed the old-guard party, pulling the entire right even farther to the right, then got elected again. (Then got voted out as of the latest election.)

Granted, that "even farther to the right" took them just a little bit to the right of the Democrats in the USA, but that's Canada for you - a Canadian conservative is a European centrist.

Political parties shift and form and re-form all the time.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Reply
 
#18
Exactly right, Rob.  While having winner-take-all elections means that you get two parties, these parties tend to change priorities every generation.  Republicans are the party of Abraham Lincoln -- that is, a coalition of northern business interests, equal rights activists, and big government.  Now if this sounds more like the modern Democratic party, well, yeah.  A lot can change in 150 years.
We've been a bit overdue for realignment in the U.S.  The Tea Party movement was sort of the advance guard, but I don't think we've had the major shift until now.  I'm not sure what the end result is going to be on the conservative side; populism and free-market brands seem to be the biggest contenders now.  On the liberal side, I expect to see the Democrats shift to a more overly socialist stance; millennials simply don't care about the Cold War ideologies but like what they've seen in Europe.
-- ∇×V
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The Bill that just won't die
#19
Well the Freedom Caucus and Trump are trying to come up with a bill that the right (and alt) wing would support. The big problem: Moderate GOP and Democrats won't back it due to to provisions waiving some of the fundamental aspects of the ACA. Which will make it a worse bill, not a better one.I suspect Trump and the freedom caucus want to prove to their base they are fighting the good fight. Bleh.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell
Reply


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