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Okay, so per Bob, I put Muslim back in. That means the world has CFs: "East Asian," "Muslim" and "Western." Which is still more than IW's "IST."
Yes, IW has, by definition, an infinite number of CFs. That doesn't mean that each world gets more than one in that setting. In fact, they've gone out of their way to show us that they only have one, and some don't even get to differentiate theirs from even more generic CFs.
Best case scenario, I can find reference, in Britannica-6, for a grand total of five CFs, and they're being more granular than the Basic Set encourages:Chinese, Islamic, Japanese, Orthodox, Western.
The Basic Set doesn't break East Asian down any further than that, due to the fact that we'd still have to add East Asian in as well, just to cover everything else that isn't covered by Chinese or Japanese. Arguments had been made, successfully, that, with the fall of the Soviet Union, Orthodox should be folded into Western--so it was. Bringing us back to the big three that I listed before: East Asian, Muslim and Western.
You're welcome to play however you want Rob. Bob doesn't need to rewrite the CF rules from the basic set. It's better to stick with the overly-simplified version from the basic set and let other GMs add the level of detail they want. Don't force it on them. I, for one, don't use the CF rules much. I don't like them. Being vague and overly-generic, they're much easier to ignore. I focus more on the Area Knowledge skill as that seems to be a better indicator. No, that's not RAW, but it works just fine for my groups. Better, in fact, as it allows them to have more detailed cultural information for specific areas, and less for others.
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Bob Schroeck Wrote:Ahem. Sorry.
(In my defense, the comment was about the opinion, not the person holding it.)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Bob Schroeck Wrote:The Middle East/Muslim world is far less prominent on the geopolitical stage of the IST World mainly because it exploded already and is in a somewhat nervous/possibly terrified quiescent stage. That does not mean it isn't relevant. Also, the fusion plants means the world is far less dependent on oil. Oil would still be needed for plastic, of course, and I don't think all oil and coal power plants have been replaced by fusion plants. There are places where they might have been kept around for a time when the U.N. turns hostile, or to keep coal miners and oil workers from becoming unemployed and vote for the other guy.
As for the Middle East specifically, I had a meta-plot in mind where someone calling themselves "Sargon II" turns up in Iraq and decides to unify the place. And he has the help of two very powerful metahumans calling themselves "Marduk" and "Ishtar". Who knows, they might even be the real thing...
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Part of my idea with the Chinese having the ability to destabilize the Fusion power plants was to "weaken" the U.N. during the war--making it appear weakened. Especially since China could turn them into WMDs. So, at the end of the war, when the U.N. defeats China, they get their hands on the destabilization technology (that a bitter China may/may not have distributed to terrorist organizations) and figure out how to shield their reactors from it.
And again, they're not sharing.
Ditto Anti-gravity.
Possibly Parachronic technology.
I liked the idea of IST ending the war with Parachronic technology, though that's totally up to Bob, since it makes their funding extremely simple. Also, Homeline, Centrum and Reich-5 have had their way long enough. It's time for the Heroes to get out there!
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I'm pretty sure I won't be allowed to do that, but it's worth proposing...
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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You never know. And, hey. It might help drive book sales . . . ;-)
Last Free Human
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Should any of the templates, IST Field Team or Administrative have Diplomatic Immunity as part of the package?
M
Michael R. Smith (lastfreehuman@gmail.com)
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I don't think so. That's, really, covered by their 10 points of Legal Enforcement Powers.
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Legal Enforcement Powers has nothing to do with Legal Immunity - check page B65.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Off the cuff here, I think the administrative staff should probably have diplomatic immunity, but not the military side.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
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Right, Rob, but IST team members aren't immune to local law. No nation would allow that. They'd be declared persona non grata and permenently ejected. It would actually be easier for countries with something to hide to remove IST team members if they had diplomatic immunity.
No, they have legal enforcement powers. They're not above the law, they must follow and stay within the law.
Per the Diplomatic Immunity advantage, as listed in 3rd edition IST:
IST, pg 30 Wrote:IST supers technically have a small degree of Diplomatic Immunity, being able to perform any acts short of murder and the violation of civil rights — this is covered under the IST member's Legal Enforcement powers. They do not, however, have the full immunity granted to professional diplomats, detailed above, even if the team member is also team administrator.
Per the Legal Enforcement Powers in 4th Edition:
Characters, pg 65 Wrote:• You have local jurisdiction, the ability to arrest suspected criminals, the power to perform searches with an appropriate warrant, and possibly the right to carry a concealed weapon. Examples: a Victorian bobby or a modern policeman. 5 points.
• As above, but you also have national or international jurisdiction, or are not obligated to respect the civil rights of others, or are free to engage in covert investigations, or may kill with relative impunity. Examples: an FBI agent or a medieval Royal Guardsman. 10 points.
Looks like Legal Enforcement Powers, for 10 points, is exactly what they're supposed to have.
Bob, you actually added Diplomatic Immunity (as a new advantage) to IST and stated: "IST Administrators and certain high-ranking officials in the IST Hierarchy, but is not normally granted to the team members themselves."
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Wow.
That came out a lot snarkier than I wanted. I'm blaming the pain in my neck (I slept wrong--my neck hurts).
Let me see if I can be a bit more diplomatic about the statement:
Rob: you are correct. Legal Enforcement Powers and Legal Immunity are not the same thing. That was never the issue. The issue is that IST Team Members are not an extra-legal force that has unlimited jurisdiction over the entire globe who can blatantly ignore the laws of their host countries. They are an international military police force operating within sovereign countries, as an adjunct of the U.N. not as a global secret-police force that answers only to the U.N. All of their rights and abilities are fairly well spelled out through Legal Enforcement Powers. The ISTs, pretty much, can’t do anything defined under Legal Immunity.
Giving the team members Legal Immunity (Diplomatic Immunity) would, likely, see them declared persona non grata on a regular basis—such as when they’re trying to assist on an investigation within a sovereign nation. Knowing that the IST team members do not have to follow any of the laws or respect the rights of their citizens (per Legal Immunity, not Legal Enforcement Powers) and can seize any evidence which cannot be legally seized back, would mean that there would be no interest in nor reason for local authorities to ever allow them access. They don't have to ever actually break the law--many people see the possibility and consider it proof of the event (see the legal definition of Conspiracy for more on that).
Even five points of legal immunity would see local authorities (especially “Federal” level) restrict their access, and arrest them (they can be arrested and held, just not charged) for minor slights. Cooperation would be negligible. And, accusations that the U.N. is attempting to create a one-world-government would be much easier to defend and prove.
Keeping them on the same “legal grounds” as local law enforcement (albeit with a wider jurisdiction) would still see some friction, but closer to the way local authorities react to “Federal” law enforcement taking over their investigation.
All that said, if Bob wants the IST Team members to have Legal Immunity [5] (for a U.N. Observer) that would be easy to add. However, I disagree that they should have it.
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I think we're on the same page here.
Following the style laid down in other books, I think the template should list "Legal Enforcement Powers OR Legal Immunity (Diplomatic Immunity) [10]", with a note saying that Legal Enforcement Powers is for the front-line supers while Legal Immunity is for the office staff ...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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I really should reread the entire book cover-to-cover instead of just consulting it as I need stuff. I keep forgetting that I actually addressed things like that.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.
Last Free Human
Unregistered
Just figured I'd ask. Thanks.
M
Michael R. Smith (lastfreehuman@gmail.com)
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@Rob: Okay, good. We've butted heads a few times, and I was trying to prevent that from happening again.
@Bob: I've read it like three times in the past two months . . . just to keep it fresh. 8-)
Last Free Human
Unregistered
IST Package
08-22-2013, 08:50 PM
So for the Administrative side of the Embassy I am thinking of some stripe of the following advantages:
Administrative Rank
Security Clearance (Administrators and Department Heads in Need-To-Know positions)
Legal Immunity (Diplomatic Immunity) (Maybe not for everyone, not sure how it works in Real Life for foreign embassies)
Reputations would be similar, but not as extreme as for the field teams. (Posting at work, so no access to the books for details)
Then skill packages for the various departments:
(So far...)
Administrative
Public Relations
Housekeeping
Maintenance
Medical
Training
Security
Motor Pool
Information Technology and Communications
Archives
Grounds Keeping
Legal
Engineering
Human Resources
Fabrication
Damage Control
Finance
Diplomacy
Analysis
Science
I am sure I am missing something.
M
Michael R. Smith (lastfreehuman@gmail.com)
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I don't know that they'd have a reputation. Most of those are going to be "faceless" people that we never see or hear about? How often do we here about Janitors (Housekeeping) for major sports teams or celebrities? Sure, the handful of outward-facing administrators would probably have a point of reputation and probably some Social Regard (Respected).
But, with the exception of the Admin, PR, Legal and head of security, I doubt their names would really be known to man-on-the-street.
Also, I doubt that Diplomacy would be a seperate arm, that would probably be handled by Admin or PR (or, at worst, Legal). Ditto Analysis and Science would probably be the same--Research--department. Maintenance and DC, ideally, would be the same group.
Gold And Appel Inc
Unregistered
Maybe a very narrowly-confined Reputation... the Janitors of the high-profile superteams get interviewed in Janitor's Monthly and are lauded by their colleagues. :]
If I had a pretty good chance of spilling mop water on the shoes of people who can snap me in half every day at work, I would definitely work on my Diplomacy.
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Last Free Human Wrote:Legal Immunity (Diplomatic Immunity) (Maybe not for everyone, not sure how it works in Real Life for foreign embassies) In real life, a typical embassy's staff can be separated into the embassy proper ( http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/embassy]second definition here) and the administrative staff (who are local hires). Only the embassy are even considered for diplomatic immunity, and it's usually given only to the people in charge and whichever immediate family members they bring along, although some countries give diplomatic immunity to the entire embassy and others only give it to the Ambassador.
Some countries don't hire locals for some jobs - the people they bring along to fill those roles almost never get diplomatic immunity. US Marines guarding the US Embassy in Ottawa don't get DI, for example... and, based on that example, I'd say the IST embassies' powered-armor troops shouldn't get it in their world, either.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
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Quote:Gold And Appel Inc wrote:
Maybe a very narrowly-confined Reputation... the Janitors of the high-profile superteams get interviewed in Janitor's Monthly and are lauded by their colleagues. :]
Wouldn't most of the high-profile supers use goombas or something non-sapient/sentient to prevent information leakages?
Just sayin'.
Wait . . . that should have been "Roombas." They'll probably clean better.
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That depends whether you want a robot or a mushroom...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."
- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012
Last Free Human
Unregistered
Sorry, I'll try to be a little more clear, mostly the DI, Rep and suchlike are rank based depending on the service provided (Yes for Admin staff, no for security, etc.) I'm not sure about hiring locals for many of the positions, though. I would imagine most of the systems, information and equipment in an IST embassy would require some level of expertise. Local janitors are not equipped to deal with hellslime on the carpet, nano-infections or other such hazards of living in a super-normal world.
M
Michael R. Smith (lastfreehuman@gmail.com)
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Maybe they have specialized butler droids. The Jeeves series, or the Alphred series.
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If this makes it into the update version (which is Bob's call, but I think it should), will it be treated as a meta-trait or an occupational template?
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