Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Original Story Concept] Thy Kingdom Come
Re: thoughts
#26
Interesting thought - the "chaos" lands are likely going to be uplifting their own knowledge base a fair bit faster than the "order" lands, what with the internet and everything. In particular, the whole "information wants to be free" and distributed infrastructure and everything works *great* with a primarily chaotic viewpoint. Even if the Open Source movement wasn't edited in directly, knowledge of it would be, and the programmer-types in the chaos lands are likely to jump in on that with both feet. Likewise, the people who learn magic the fastest (not the safest, but the fastest) are going to be the ones who dump out everything they know on the internet, and then go dashing madly around picking up bits of what everyone else knows and integrating it through experimentation. Shamanism's usually good for that *anyway*. Sure the order lands are going to see some of that, and they're also going to see people giving classes, but not, I think, to the same degree. The ideas of "Knowledge is Power." and "Information wants to be free." are going to resonate *strongly* in the new Chaos lands, and my impression is that those are the sorts of places where Power is a Good Thing. You're going to see a fair number of Auto-Initiated Explosive Events (AIEE) but you're also going to see a lot of people who figure out strange and scary magical powers (Look, Ma! I just enchanted my shotgun to launch plasma bolts!)
I imagine that the Chief of Chiefs is going to be ruling with a relatively light hand. Not that he'll be gentle - when he does come down on something, he's going to come down *hard* - but he probably isn't going to do that much more often than he needs to to remind people that he can.
On the other hand, "Chief of Chiefs" is the sort of position that frequently rules with a lot of gentle influence and the occasional (rare) bout of horrific brutality anyway, so that works. Actually, the fact that the revolts all happened up front is probably to his benefit. By the time they start figuring out the really scary technomagical innovations, there will also probably be a fair amount of clue in the system of the "He mostly leaves us alone. If we boot him out of power, the next guy might *not* mostly leave us alone" variety.
I gotta say, I see the Orc lands settling down as the sort of place that gets random radicals of all sorts of flavors all thinking feverishly and debating loudly. Mind you, you'll get bits of that everywhere - particularly in the universities - but the Orcs would have it as a local specialty.
Does Deon hang out online? Does he visit the Mighty Magics fora? Does he give advice? Heck, is he even aware of the existence of such places?
Reply
Re: thoughts
#27
I don't, at least at the moment, have anything useful to add, but I just wanted to say I definitely want to see more of this story.
From the description, the Chaos Gods sounded more like "live and let live" types. Or did they, back in the day, have this same trick of using extradimensional cannon fodder the way Deon got pulled in, in which case they're just as much "good riddance to bad rubbish" as the Order Gods? Presumably Raksis is out for revenge -- but is there any possibility of a truce instead, such as maybe to get rid of this cleric who's trying to screw both Deon and Raksis over?
Quote:
"Your Chaos gods are gone," said Kwll. "With my brother's help I slew them all and all their minions.... For good measure we slew the Lords of Law as well. Now you mortals are free of gods.... Now you can make your own destiny."
...
"For a world without gods is a world without much to fear," said Corum.
-- The King of the Swords, Michael Moorcock, last chapter and epilogue
-----
Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.
Reply
Suggestions
#28
I'll start by saying, Bravo. A lot of unique and interesting ideas you've come up with. I've got a few points to make, most of which are probably blatantly obvious and you've already dealt with them. You needn't answer most of my questions, as long as you know the answers yourself.
First off, I'd like to point out the obvious. You're starting the story in the middle. I'm not criticizing, as I've often used that technique myself, but it does place a few requirements on you. You're going to need to tell the whole story, or else your readers are going to be left hanging. So you need to let people know (through dialogue, flashback, or some subtler method) all the important things that went on in the untold first half of the story. Perhaps when you're writing from Zastra's perspective you can give insights into how things were before the change (probably how things were better, occasionally how things were worse). But more importantly, have a very clear idea of the major events Deon went through to go from recently-summoned cannon fodder to Godslayer. Better yet, keep an outline, and always leave space in it for things you later realize he must have done.
Secondly, look at your magic system. Make sure it's something that's stable enough to have withstood time. You've already stated that literally anyone can become a god - even someone like Deon who apparently went from non-god to most-powerful-god in a very short time period. Does becoming a god require killing one?
If not, then why isn't everyone a god - what stops Joe Average mage from stumbling on the secret to godhead, just like the older gods must have?
If so, then how did the balance of power between order and chaos ever come up? One would think that, either one side or the other would eventually have a numerical or power advantage, and by attrition/increasing numerical advantage would overwhelm the other side.
I like the idea of the familiar effectively being a 'self-casting spell', but what's stopping it from casting itself, and another just like itself? A viral spell, as it were?
More importantly, why hasn't anyone ever done a re-write of the world before? Can it be done again, if the circumstances were right? And now that it's happened once in such an obvious fashion, how afraid are people that it's going to happen again?
You should remember, the reason terrorism is so effective isn't because it causes huge casualties. Car crashes cause several orders of magnitudes more death every year - but people are used to them, they think they understand why they happen and because of that they don't believe they'll happen to them. It's because terrorism is completely unpredictable that it can inspire so much terror.
How much terror would you feel if suddenly the whole world changed around you, and you can't explain why? If tomorrow, you wake up and there's no sunlight, but don't worry, everyone now owns a far-superior environmental survival suit and knows how to use it. Wouldn't you worry that the power supply in the suit might suddenly stop working?
I'm wandering a bit, but I've got two main points here: If it's happened, it's usually a far simpler matter to make it happen again (if only because more people know it can be done). And people are afraid - mind numbingly terrified might be a better description - of unknown dangers they cannot predict. The possibility of another re-boot is probably causing large scale, low-grade continual panic in the general populace, just like the paranoia of post 9/11 New York. This has probably settled down a bit in the intervening time, but it will have an impact on society for generations to come - and I'm guessing it will result in violent anti-magic sentiment among the common (non-magical) populace. It could show as anti-religious, anti-authoritarian, or even roving mobs hunting down suspected 'godslayers', but it will be anti-something, and most likely anti-magic.
So no, I don't think that the newfound communications infrastructure is going to lead to a magical renniassance. I think other factors are going to lead to a lot of dead magical DaVincis.
"Not this again!" Minerva said. "Albus, it was You-Know-Who, not you, who marked Harry as his equal. There is no possible way that the prophecy could be talking about you!" - Harry Potter and the Method of Rationality, Chapter 84
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#29
Ah but considering that many people are happier with their new lives the change might be seen as largly positive, but it should happen again to take care of some pesky little problems such as unequal distribution of wealth, an undesiarble race, make everyone immortal, etc, whatever that particular persons agenda happens to be. My guess is that a lot of people would be interested in replicating the change to further their own agenda.
It can go both ways, and politicians and media can try to push either way, but wether people will listen is anyones guess.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#30
Epsilon:
Quote:
I'm certain Deon very well might be horrified the first time he realises someone has come up with a magically enhanced version of the Hydrogen bomb.
I probably won't go that route, per-se...but the potential for something like that to exist is certainly an issue, and yeah, it makes sense for someone to try and build one. I'm not sure I can make a usable plot item out of it, but...hmmmm...
Sirrocco:
Quote:
Interesting thought - the "chaos" lands are likely going to be uplifting their own knowledge base a fair bit faster than the "order" lands, what with the internet and everything.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The changes for the Orcs, Goblins - the freewheeling races - have potential to be very interesting indeed, especially given their political situation. As has been noted, the Orcs are technically under a military dictatorship. But the military leaders don't care what the people do or say, so long as they aren't taking concrete action to mount a coup or anything. There's no censorship, no real attempts at information control...
Quote:
Does Deon hang out online? Does he visit the Mighty Magics fora? Does he give advice? Heck, is he even aware of the existence of such places?
Hadn't thought of this. I'd have to give a tentative 'yes'. I doubt he'd post, but he'd definitely keep track of such things, mostly for personal power and pragmatic reasons.
DHBirr:
Quote:
From the description, the Chaos Gods sounded more like "live and let live" types. Or did they, back in the day, have this same trick of using extradimensional cannon fodder the way Deon got pulled in, in which case they're just as much "good riddance to bad rubbish" as the Order Gods?
The precise characterisation of the Chaos Gods is not one I want to go into too much. Suffice to say they're not really nice folks either, but they're not nearly as bad as what the other side makes them out to be. As for Raksis...I've noted before, he was the leader the Chaos Gods didn't have. And he's a trickster God.
kestrel404:
Quote:
First off, I'd like to point out the obvious. You're starting the story in the middle. I'm not criticizing, as I've often used that technique myself, but it does place a few requirements on you.
*nods* I'm aware of that, but thanks for the reminders. You've also verbalized a kinda quick checklist, spelt out in a manner that's...probably more comprehensive than my own. It's good to know what people expect, so I can deliver that.
Quote:
Does becoming a god require killing one?
There's a certain...barrier, threshhold, border, that needs to be crossed to make the jump from Extremely Powerful Mage to God. Killing a god, per-se, is not a requirement. But depending on the circumstances of that kill, it is one way.
Quote:
If so, then how did the balance of power between order and chaos ever come up?
The Order Gods are younger than the Chaos Gods. There is a certain amount of history here... which I admittedly, haven't fully defined. I need to.
Quote:
I like the idea of the familiar effectively being a 'self-casting spell', but what's stopping it from casting itself, and another just like itself? A viral spell, as it were?
More correctly, Tias is a self-sustaining spell. He thinks, therefore he is. He cannot modify the perimeters of his existence beyond set levels (ie, his shapeshifting). He cannot cast other forms of magic.
That said...it's theoretically possible, under this system, to create a 'viral spell' as you describe - it'd be extremely difficult, though, which is possibly why it hasn't happened yet. Making a conscious creature of pure magic is difficult.
Quote:
More importantly, why hasn't anyone ever done a re-write of the world before? Can it be done again, if the circumstances were right?
What makes you think it hasn't happened before? And yes, it can happen again.
Quote:
And people are afraid - mind numbingly terrified might be a better description - of unknown dangers they cannot predict. ... and I'm guessing it will result in violent anti-magic sentiment among the common (non-magical) populace. ... So no, I don't think that the newfound communications infrastructure is going to lead to a magical renniassance. I think other factors are going to lead to a lot of dead magical DaVincis.
I'm tempted to use both elements, and set up opposition between people who are all for new revival and study of magic, and a massive backlash against it. Conflict's fun, and I'm all for multiple factors.
It's never just ONE thing, is it?
-- Acyl
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#31
People will be making things Deon will not approve of though the hydrogen bomb is probably not the best example, go with something morraly ambigius such as building sexaroids.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#32
Quote:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The changes for the Orcs, Goblins - the freewheeling races - have potential to be very interesting indeed, especially given their political situation. As has been noted, the Orcs are technically under a military dictatorship. But the military leaders don't care what the people do or say, so long as they aren't taking concrete action to mount a coup or anything. There's no censorship, no real attempts at information control...
that just made me _shiver_. I Like that Idea, I Do, I Do.
Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#33
Question: how does the "military dictatorship" of the Orcs support itself? Military dictatorships, by their nature have to have a fairly large investment in the warring classes. They've got to collect taxes *somehow*. So, how do they get the money they need to maintain the standing army/police they need to maintain order?
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#34
Probably the same way they do in Indonesia.
Relevant War Nerd article.
To sum up: a military that is not funded by a particular government must come up with its own ways to raise funds. One way to do this is to crack down so hard on certain regions that you create rebels groups. These rebel groups then justify more crack downs, which justify more spending, which create more rebels and...
Yeah.
Some pretty sick stuff.
---------------------
Epsilon
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#35
well there is a reason why the goverment is called the stationary bandit by many economists. The military could always collect protection money/taxes, much in the way the did it in the middle ages, just eyeball what stuff they have and based on that determine what should now belong you you in the name of taxes.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#36
Yesss.... but the point of the Orc leadership is that it mostly leaves folks alone except when it has to put down revolts. I'm just saying that you have to have *some* degree of intervention just so you can collect enough money to keep the military side running. I was wondering what sort of taxes the Chief of Chief collected, and how.
Reply
Re: Suggestions
#37
I was thinking taxes ... which, as far as the Orcs are concerned, is an evolution of tribute. Possibly protection money. With the growth of modern industry...the military government probably owns a fair bit of said new industries as well. Not nationalization of everything, mind you, simply the fact they plow money back into industry. You'd see CEOs and board members with 'Brigadier General' in their titles, somewhere.
-- Acyl
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)