The Scary World of PC Shopping

[Ankhani]

As most of the CoH group knows, I've been looking about for a new computer for awhile. I'm nary the best shop-arounder and I'd thin polling our collective where would turn up some good suggestions. Some things to keep in mind: I would be more in the line for Desktops than laptops, and I don't need a do-it-all machine. My current lappy can manage everything I need it to except running newer games with out boiling over. From my perusing the various sites I've been pointed to, some general idea of where I'm going for would be Intel core i7, NVidia GTX 200's, and around 6-9GB RAM. Example of what specs I've been looking at, though not necessarily just what I'm looking for.
From Dell, which I've had plenty of good products from before, their gaming line (not Ailenware, mind) totals around $1770, which is near the top of my spendyness. Looking around Newegg and CNet, I've found comparable specs from Cyberpower, iBuy, and Asus at around $1100-1300. The only thing that gives me pause there is I've never heard anything of those manufacturers and am a bit wary. So, squabble away with some suggestions, perhaps?
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[NifT]

Never heard of Cyberpower or iBuy, but I have heard of Asus; only as a hardware company though. They made the motherboard I currently have in my (rather
dated) desktop at home.

[jpub]

Ankh, where do you live (Canada/US)? And do you want to personally build the bedamned thing, or get it built for you?

Not only is this sort of thing my *job*, I *just* built a new machine (as in, got it a week ago), so I can help you out on this.

[Ankhani]

I'm on the east coast of the US. I'm not opposed to putting all the parts together, as it would be quite an enjoyable (although possibly frustrating)
experience, but having never done that sort of thing, it would likely not be quite as simple as getting one made.

If you'd estimate that there would be a reasonable DIY discount as opposed to grabbing a Desktop all set up, that would be something worth considering. I
have kinda made an abstract goal to build a desktop when I've got the time and money.
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[jpub]

Here's a machine reasonably close to what I built from [url=http://www.ncixus.com,]http://www.ncixus.com,[/url] the American arm of NCIX, one of the
best online retailers in Canada. Note I'm assuming you don't need a monitor/mouse/kb.

Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core Processor Lynnfield LGA1156 2.8GHZ Hyperthreading 8MB Cache Retail Box $304.10

MSI P55-GD65 ATX LGA1156 P55 DDR3 3PCI-E16 CrossFire SLI 2PCI-E1 PCI-E4 2PCI eSATA GBLAN Motherboard $150.05

G.SKILL F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH Ripjaws PC3-12800 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1600 CL7-7-7-24 Core I5 Memory Kit $99.53

XFX GeForce GTX 275 633MHZ 896MB 2.26GHZ GDDR3 2XDVI PCI-E Video Card $220.45

Batman Arkham Asylum (PC Game) Coupon for Digital Download *NVIDIA Promo Only*

Samsung SH-S223B/BEBE 22X DVD+-RW SATA DVD Writer Black OEM $29.66

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA2 3.5IN 8.5MS 7200RPM 16MB Hard Drive OEM *3YR MFR Warranty* $58.29

Antec Three Hundred Mini Tower Gaming Case 300 ATX 3X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS Front USB & Audio $49.31

Antec Truepower New 650W Modular Power Supply ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus SLI Ready 120MM PWM Fan $91.32

PC Assembly and Testing with 1 Year Limited NCIX System Warranty (PRE-CONFIG WIN. OS If Purchased) $39.64

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64BIT OEM DVD with Windows 7 Upgrade Offer $134.65

Total, $1177. Delivery, including their Express RMA service, should run you about $80.

(Mine was noticably pricier - not only did I get two more expensive HDs, I got double the memory, a more expensive MB; but thanks to freaking customs and duty
the Canadian prices tend to be 10-20% higher.)

If you want to upgrade a bit, swap out that MSI motherboard for an Asus P7P55D model.

As for the brands....

If you go with a Dell, get the XPS 8000, and customize the cheapest machine. If you start on one of the more beefy variants, they limit options. I recommend
you pick up the ATI Radeon 4850 for a video card, it's the best of the lot they offer.

Cyberpower isn't bad. They're not brilliant, IMO, but they're decent. At my work, we've only had minor issues with the couple machines of
theirs we've run into.

ASUS is quality in everything they do. I've *never* had a complaint with ASUS in terms of the quality of machines they build. I'm not fond of their
American support, as they can be a pain to get in touch with, but once you do they're among the best in the business.

Heard nothing about iBuy.

[CattyNebulart]

I had a cyberpower machine years ago. back then they where cheap but not otherwise remarkable (they where cheaper that DIY assembly, but their assembly was a
bit on the shoddy side. Nothing 15 minutes with a screwdirver wouldn't fix though.)

Asus is mainly a motherboard manufacturer, and generally the top rated brand of motherboards. However my experience is that biostar delivers far better quality
motherboards. I don't have any experience with their pc making side.
E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

[jpub]

Asus also makes fantastic Laptops/Minis. I've only run into one of their Desktops, and my impression was that it was solid.

[Ankhani]

I've poked around NCIXUS for parts, and most of the parts you've listed were agreeable to what I'm looking for. I do have keyboard, mouse and
monitor with my laptop, so that's all set.

Current (working) list I've got down so far:

Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core Processor Lynnfield LGA1156 2.8GHZ Hyperthreading 8MB Cache Retail Box

ASUS P7P55D Pro LGA1156 P55 DDR3 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 PCI SLI Crossfirex 6SATA GBLAN 1394 Motherboard

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA2 3.5IN 8.5MS 7200RPM 16MB Hard Drive OEM *3YR MFR Warranty*

Samsung SH-S223B/BEBE 22X DVD+-RW SATA DVD Writer Black OEM

XFX GeForce GTX 275 633MHZ 896MB 2.26GHZ GDDR3 2XDVI PCI-E Video Card

Antec Three Hundred Mini Tower Gaming Case 300 ATX 3X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS Front USB & Audio

Antec Truepower New 650W Modular Power Supply ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus SLI Ready 120MM PWM Fan

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64BIT OEM DVD with Windows 7 Upgrade Offer

PC Assembly and Testing with 1 Year Limited NCIX System Warranty (PRE-CONFIG WIN. OS If Purchased)

Running total at $1088.06

Note that I haven't come to select any RAM yet. I'm a bit boggled between the Corsair and G.SKILL 8GB kits. Corsair has both 4x2GB ($253.40) and 2x4GB
($282.77) at 1600MHz. G.SKILL has a 2x4GB 1600MHz kit as well, but the boggling thing is that it's more than $200 extra ($498.12). I'm trying to figure
why the huge price gap, and what's the difference between the two.

(The G.SKILL is 'Yes' available and not 'In Stock', which might explain but I can't be sure.)
---

The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[jpub]

Ankh, if you want 8GB, I'd personally get 2 of the 4GB kits. They're substantially cheaper. I also don't recommend Corsair - they've gotten
pricy lately, and I'm not sure why.

Look at these:

http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=427 ... =G%2ESkill

http://www.ncixus.com/products/42746/F3 ... M/G.Skill/

http://www.ncixus.com/products/39640/OC ... echnology/

I personally recommend the G.Skill options. They're a really good new brand, and that first one is good timing and it's on sale. Only thing better than
7-7-7-24 is 7-7-7-20. I've got 2 sets of that second one, the 8-8-8-24, and I'm happy with them.

Finally, remember that if given a choice between getting *faster* RAM and *more* RAM, always take the later. The difference betwen 8-8-8-24 and 7-7-7-24 in
actual benchmarks/usage is fractions of a percent.

[Acyl]

Sorta of belatedly chiming in - the motherboard and case of my current desktop is an Asus. It's getting a bit creaky by now, since it was never bleeding
edge when I built the thing and time's taken its toll. But it can still run current games. My new-ish laptop (about a year old) is a decent gaming platform
as well; in some ways better than the desktop. That too is an Asus - I purchased it precisely BECAUSE I was very happy with the desktop hardware. It's
pretty much rock solid. Very quality build.
-- Acyl

[Valles]

My motherboard is also an ASUS product, and every problem I thought might've been attributable to it later turned out to be something else. Add me to the chorus.
===========

===============================================
"V, did you do something foolish?"
"Yes, and it was glorious."

[Bluemage]

Same here- my RAM's died, my graphics cards have had problems, my power supplies have failed, and yet my ASUS motherboard is still going strong.

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My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[Ankhani]

Thanks for all the suggestions, that motherboard is certainly going in. I've rounded off the list here with the 2 4GB RAM kits.

-> Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core Processor Lynnfield LGA1156 2.8GHZ Hyperthreading 8MB Cache Retail Box

$304.10

-> ASUS P7P55D Pro LGA1156 P55 DDR3 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 PCI SLI CrossFireX 6SATA GBLAN 1394 Motherboard

$161.81

-> Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB SATA2 3.5IN 8.5MS 7200RPM 16MB Hard Drive OEM *3YR MFR Warranty*

$51.12

-> G.SKILL F3-12800CL8D-4GBRM Ripjaws PC3-12800 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1600 CL8-8-8-24 Core I5 Memory Kit

2x$85.72 = $171.44

-> Samsung SH-S223B/BEBE 22X DVD+-RW SATA DVD Writer Black OEM

$29.66

-> XFX GeForce GTX 275 633MHZ 896MB 2.26GHZ GDDR3 2XDVI PCI-E Video Card

$220.45

-> Antec Three Hundred Mini Tower Gaming Case 300 ATX 3X5.25 6X3.5INT No PS Front USB & Audio

$49.31

-> Antec Truepower New 650W Modular Power Supply ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus SLI Ready 120MM PWM Fan

$91.32

-> Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64BIT OEM DVD with Windows 7 Upgrade Offe

$124.65

-> PC Assembly and Testing with 1 Year Limited NCIX System Warranty (PRE-CONFIG WIN. OS If Purchased)

$39.64

Total $1259.50

One last thing to poll on, shall I throw in another/better(?) fan for cooling? Overheating is something I've become far to familliar with using this
laptop, and I've heard it mentioned (NCIX Tech Tips dude) that the Intel chips have a unimpressive heat sink. Have any of you had any experience in such a
matter?
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The Master said: "It is all in vain! I have never yet seen a man who can perceive his own faults and bring the charge home against himself."

>Analects: Book V, Chaper XXVI

[Black Aeronaut]

Meh. If I wanted a rig that was built strictly for gaming, I'd build it myself and put it inside a nice little form-factor box. Screw those giant-ass boxes - they're mostly like that so they can have fans bigger than your head so they can be quiet.
You also tend to save a few hundred bucks by doing it yourself, which honestly isn't as hard as you think.  You just need to ensure that the parts you want are comaptable (this is especially so when considering what case you want - don't wanna get a case your mobo won't fit inside), and have a nice little static-safe work area.
Oh, and for heaven's sake, read the docs.  That will save you so much sprockin' trouble that when you do and something weird goes down, you'll actually laugh when you realize its something you read about in the docs and can easily fix instead of freaking out.  Speaking from personal experience, BTW, for both cases.

[jpub]

blac - try a grand total of $40 saved doing it manually. That is if Ankh doesn't want to play silly internet games and order parts all from all over the
net, just to save a couple bucks.

The Antec 300 case is a standard Mini-tower. Room for 3 accessible drives, and that's it. It's a REALLY good case - I'm really pleased with it.

Ankh - what you've got there is 95% of what I had. I traded in the drives for some 640GB WD Caviar Black models, but they're really not worth it. I had
some brilliant plan to try some RAID 1 setup and wanted uber-high-perf drives, but changed my mind.

As for additional fans - don't bother. The Antex 300 has 2 large 120mm fans - one on the top of the case, one on the back. Also, the mountpoint for the
power supply is on the bottom, not the top, so the hot(ish) exhaust from the PS is nowhere near your CPU, memory, or video card. The ONLY addition I made to
mine was a filter I placed over the side panel fan port. The front air intake is filtered, I wanted to make sure the other intake was as well.

[Black Aeronaut]

Well, it's been a while since I've looked into it, so it figures that my intel is out of date. Sorry for the misinformation.