Mecha Design Challenge

[Valles]

So, I recently, finally, got around to watching the last half of Gundam Seed. And, while not without it's flaws, it's definitely a good series that I enjoyed a great deal.
Naturally, I'm taking another look at the fic I started in that universe, and have even been writing a bit on it.
Since I'm a shameless mech-head, and since at least half the reason I started seriously planning the thing in the first place was to prove that I could come up with more model kits than we have in the real world without ever resorting to the absurd rationalizations Bandai has inflicted on us, I've also been doing a lot of technical planning.
Which, finally, leads into the bit I need help with.
See, in an action-based series like this, a big, tense fight is a vital part of the climactic arc.
At this point, I'm planning to have four main characters actually directly involved... and I don't have enough boss designs for them to face.
And one of them is just the Providence from canon.
The other is at least temporarily tagged the Achilles, and its schtick is defense. Specifically, besides having reactor-fed phase shift armor, its armor is layered with the same kind of ultra-durable ablative material that other suits in this universe carry on their shields: IE, it's proof against pretty much anything short of a capital ship's spinal gun.
So I need at the very least two more 'identifying concepts' for these boss mechs.
Any ideas?
Ja, -n

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"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."

[The Hunterminator]

Mmm... How detailed do you want the design to be?
My idea is, a mecha designed for a mix of speed and stealth using trickery and deception to defeat its enemies.
Or if you don't like it, I can come up with others, designing technological weapons and vehicles are my specialty.

[ordnance11]

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The other is at least temporarily tagged the Achilles, and its schtick is defense. Specifically, besides having reactor-fed phase shift armor, its armor is layered with the same kind of ultra-durable ablative material that other suits in this universe carry on their shields: IE, it's proof against pretty much anything short of a capital ship's spinal gun.

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Okay, the holy trinity for designing any weapons system: be they tanks, warships or in this case mecha are these attributes:
1) Firepower
2) Mobility
3) Armor/defensive capabilities
So...you want a mecha that is geared toward defensive capabilities: The question is how much?
One end of the spectrum would be a mobile suit that has uber defensive capabilities and multiple layers of PSA , but would have the manueverability of a snail compared to 1st generation G-weapons and not much in the way of firepower that it could be overwhelmed by numbers.
The other end of the spectrum would be a G-weapon that uses the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" philosophy. One that uses mobility as a defensive asset. Though of course, the G-forces involved in the manuevers would probably black out even a Coordinator.
So...let's start with the power source: you're going to need a nuclear reactor for this one, possibly even two with the power requirements you're asking.
Next threats to the mecha..which would fall into 2 types:
Kinetic energy : shells and missles, and swords made of uber materials.
Radiant energy: anti-matter streams, lasers, beams sabers etc.
Now, instead of one uber system, I advocate a layered defense:
1) ID and fire control capability equivalent to todays AWACs: If you can see them well beyond the range of any mobile suit (or capital ship) you're away ahead of the game.
2. Stealth and decoy capability: a Colloid Mirage system for hiding and holographic decoys for fooling you opponents: Do you want the capability to deply and operate multiple decoys or just one very good one or both?
3: A Dragoon system which would be dandy for a standoff defense against missles and shells and also useful to use against a mobile suit. A variant of the system only this time using buckler thype shields for defense against laser and the like.
4. A first generation deflector screen of the Starwars type. I keep thinking of two half shields that can reinforce each other ("switch shields to double front")
5. A big shield that the Gundam can crouch against that has an anti beam coating.
6. 2 or three layers of Phase shift armor.
Wth this type of system, Mu would had survived Dominion's Longherins at the last episode.
__________________
Into terror!,  Into valour!
Charge ahead! No! Never turn
Yes, it's into the fire we fly
And the devil will burn!
- Scarlett Pimpernell

[Valles]

You can feel free to get as detailed as you like, or not. It's not as though I'm paying you, after all. ^_^ What I'm looking for, though, is three or four paragraphs worth - enough for someone who'd never seen it to produce an unmistakable sketch.
Like... Hmm, what'd have the least spoilers...
Okay, by this point in the story the Strike has been fitted with its 'ultimate' Striker pack, the Long Activity Survival and Transport Type. Unlike almost all the others, the LASTT is a full-armor type, like Duel's Assault Shroud, and most of the added volume is made up of batteries, reaction mass, and a phase shift emitter grid; in other words, the LASTT has the same phase shift ability as the basic Strike, rather than having to rely on conventional armor like the other Striker packs. Its backpack section has a pair of redirectable engine pods - I'm still playing with their configuration or I'd go into more detail here, but, when combined with the variable-geometry wings mounted to them, they should give a definite angelic impression, more like the OAV version of Wing than like Freedom but probably most like Justice or the flight packs seen in the opening of Full Metal Panic. Overall it's quite fast, maybe as much so as the Aile pack.
Armament includes a Phalanx-style anti-missile system, about half-a-dozen heavy missiles, a pair of beam sabers, and a sort of bullpup beam cannon with an underslung coilgun more suited to light targets like, oh, mobile suits that's mounted over the right shoulder, much like the Assault Shroud's. Usually it's braced by the right arm when firing, but it can track independantly.
...something like that.
Ja, -n

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"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."

[The Hunterminator]

Good, room for innovation then. Is the organization the bosses are part of cannon? And if so, what organization would that be? That would allow me to make a few google searches to familiarize myself with their design style.
-EDIT-
Never mind, I noticed that you mentionned the providence being cannon, looked it up, and answered my own question.

[Valles]

First, lemme correct something I was unclear about: I'm planning four one-on-one matches, not one big dogpile.
Second, aside from its anti-beam coating, the Achilles is a fairly standard warrior-type mobile suit, if a very capable one. I'm trying to keep in mind that these Gundams are experimental designs, intended to test systems and concepts at the very fringe of the cutting edge. The Achilles isn't about the question, 'How well can we defend?', it's, 'How well does this coating work on a full mobile suit?'
The answer is, 'Very, but not cost-effectively,' by the by.
Just like the Providence is asking, 'Is there anything in this flying turret gig?'
I did/do have an idea for one based around, 'How big a gun can we hang off of a mobile suit, anyway?', but I decided that it probably wouldn't be good enough vs. other mobile suits to suit my purposes. So it's Lacus's problem.
Ja, -n

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"I'm terribly sorry, but I have to kill you quite horribly now."

[Epsilon]

First, take a good long look at what the capabilities are of your four protagonist characters.
Then, ask yourself "What would be the hardest thing for them to beat?"
So, for instance if one of the hero mecha is a high speed unit, but does little damage. It shoudl go up against a slow unit that has area-of-effect weapons which render the others mobility moot. If a hero mecha has a nigh unstoppable uber beam cannon, the enemy mecha should have the ability to get out of the weapons way, or prevent the opponent from ever being able to target it, and so on.
Double points if you design it such that while hero mecha a could not beat villian mecha a, if hero mecha A fought villian mecha b they could win.
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Epsilon

[Kokuten]

These are Gundams?
'Knightmare Gundam', medium-low speed, medium armor, medium beam, extreme speed 'charge' attack, melee is a Progressive/Energy/Holy/Demonic/Jello Lance. If Lance is disabled/broken, refers to progressive sword. Lance is extreme damage at point during charge, not terribly effective otherwise.
The lance is a truly terrifying weapon - you've got ~1800lbs of horse, ~250 pounds of rider and armor. The meat involved is agressive, highly trained, and in good condition.
It's charging you at ~30-35 mph, and it's focussing all the energy of that movement and momentum into a _single point_.

'Swarm Gundam', not actually a single robot, but a collection of 15-20 smaller robots. Sure, they don't have an Omega class weapon, but they've each got a medium beam, and they can all target the _exact_ same place. High manuverability, high sensors, high speed.

'Meat Gundam' - medium speed, medium beam (external rifle pod) melee is pair of progressive axes, melee strength is extreme - you don't want to tangle with this guy, he'll push his luck and dodge and defense to get to melee range, and then he'll rip your frigging arm off and beat you to death with it. Best piloted by berserker type.

'Magus Gundam' - Stealth and Speed, and a slow-charging progressive scythe. Best played in an asteroid field or other broken-ground condition, where Magus can disappear. Best played by a gamester who will deploy comm drones everywhere to provide spoofed taunting laughter for the enemy.

is there a 'production model' Gundam, like there was a Production Model EVA? If so, can you imagine how boned a Gundam would be if it was up against a trained squad of soldiers driving Production Models?
I haven't watched much Gundam- but I've gotten the impression that these people are _warriors_. In a set-piece battle, really in anything where they can be _made_ to come to battle, a warrior cannot stand against soldiers.
So.. Soldier Gundams. the British Infantry Line brought into space - first rank, FIRE. Second Rank - FIRE. let's see you advance against the massed volley fire of a combat group of those boys.. The beam rifles they are carrying may not match the rate of fire, or the power per shot of your weapon, O Hypothetical Gundam Driver, but there's two dozen of them, see.. Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979Wire Geek - Burning the weak and trampling the dead since 1979

[The Hunterminator]

There you go, here's the first draft of the infiltration, observation and assassination specialist Dissolution Gundam.
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ZGMF-X15A Dissolution Gundam

The Dissolution Gundam was designed with trickery in mind. Although lightly armored, it is equipped with several maneuvering jets giving it impressive maneuverability. Its main defensive equipment, however, is its extensive suite of ECM equipment, minimal sensor profile and its state of the art wraith cloaking device.
Its main offensive weapon is its hand-held long range rail cannon modified for maximum range and accuracy, allowing the Dissolution to quickly and efficiently disable targets with a single surprise attack. For close combat, it is equipped with a shoulder mounted beam rifle, a beam gun mounted on the left arm and a beam saber mounted on the right. It is also equipped with the standard chest mounted vulcan cannons.
If unable to slip out of sight, the Dissolution Gundam is equipped with two hip mounted flash mine delivery systems able to blind any visual or sensor based detection systems at close range. Finally, there is the Dissolutions back mounted automated micro turret delivery system. Although weak and easily destroyed, the Dissolution has a large amount of them ready to be released when a distraction is necessary.

[drakensis]

Fast Strike machine: good thrusters, powerful beam weapons, but light armour and low endurance due to the demands of the energy weapons.
Close Combat machine: armor schneiders in the knees, beam trident, beam rifles built into forearm guards, heavy armour and adequate speed but not well armed for a stand off fight.
Aerial Superiority machine: 'wing' thrusters for agility, lots of missiles and a big chest beam weapon like the Aegis.

I have models put together from various 1/144 bandai kits for Gundams like this but my digital camera isn't talking to my PC at the moment and the forum ate my more detailed descriptions.D for Drakensis
You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.
D for Drakensis

You're only young once, but immaturity is forever.

[Sirrocco]

Behemoth Gundam - built to answer the question "What happens if we just make the whole think a lot larger?"
Starts with the basic frame from one of the larger Gundams, and then doubles in all dimensions. Armor becomes twice as thick, perhaps with a bit of the old ablative on top, giving it an impressive degree of resilience. Loses out to a degree on speed, but compensates by exploiting the extra space for big area-effect weaponry, and by using a sweeping melee style that's hard to avoid simly because it attacks so much area at once. Does not turn quickly (reaction mass ain't cheap) but built to have full-sphere sensors, and able to reverse itself to a degree - offering a nasty surprise to anyone who thinks to sneak around behind it for the attack. range weapons primarily in the form of missile launchers all up and down the apparent "spine". The gundam itself runs the targetting numbers - the missiles are dumb but take commands over encrypted lines, can effectively engage in every direction, and detonate on impact or command. Weapons are paired swords - *Large* pired swords, with a fighting style that focuses on large, sweeping blows with both swords simultaneously - trying to cover enough area that the enemy cannot effectively dodge out of the way.
Incidentally, the "central command" feature of the missile system means that the Gundam is fully capable of seeding an area with dormant missiles prior to a fight and then engaging them at will. It also means that the missiles can be rendered stupid with the right jamming frequencies.
My personal image tends to a much bigger version of the "large, white, with angular protrusions and a splash or two of color" style, but it can certainly be modified n any one of a numebr of ways.
"Freak" Gundam - "what happens if we mess with your head?" Basicallyy, this guy doesn't *have* a consistent fighting style, because all of his attacks and abilities are in the form of strange systems with limited uses. He's got a missile pack. He's got a group of command-triggered mines. He's got a tremendously effective acid in a spray system that will dump it all out at once, but that requires he be close enough to be grappling. His hands have thruster systems, tremendously powerful magnets in the fingerprints and thumbprints, and powerful shaped charges designed to fire through the palm. Once hs hands are gone, his arms reveal a powerful laser on one side, and a grappling claw/drill combination on the other. He's got a single-use EMP burst that his own systems are hardened against. He has knee spikes.
basically, this guy is designed to beat up all of those heroes who depend on the "fight him fr a while at a disadvantage until you figure out his style, then destroy him" technique. He's also comparatively cheap to build. (you have to near-rebuild him after every fight, but if you're just cobbling together a one-use defender on a budget out of the spare parts you have lying around and a whole lot of ingenuity...,)

[VladimirTherin]

Alpha-strike gundam,
designed to hop into a battle already engaged, or shortly after someone else is on the ropes,
unload a /ton/ of precision and or supression-style weapons, and then run away.
bonus points for delivering any motivational/mocking speeches while everyone is still shell-shocked.
minus points for working a top hand and or cane into the action.

[Evil Midnight Lurker]

Extra minus points for having missiles whose verniers are configured to create a rose-shaped exhaust flame.
--Sam
"Well that guy's nekkid."

[Bluemage]

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So.. Soldier Gundams. the British Infantry Line brought into space - first rank, FIRE. Second Rank - FIRE. let's see you advance against the massed volley fire of a combat group of those boys.. The beam rifles they are carrying may not match the rate of fire, or the power per shot of your weapon, O Hypothetical Gundam Driver, but there's two dozen of them, see..

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Yes, but how well does this tactic work in three dimensions?Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...

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My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.