Writing Self-Insert Characters

[robkelk]

Thirding the advice on being hard on your SI.  Actually... I have a whole list of advice for Self-Insert characters in my fic writer's guide... let me go grab the relevant section to save you some time and effort.  (Although, if you want to read the whole, incomplete thing, a not-quite-the-latest version can be found here.)

These lists look to me like the perfect starting point for a thread about writing self-insert characters. I'll make my comments inline; if anybody else wants to share their experience writing SIs or similar characters, feel free to add to the thread.

My first comment: Many of these rules also apply to many isekai characters who aren't self-insert characters. While they don't know everything that the writer knows, these isekai characters know more about the setting and characters than J. Random Native does, so many of the same writing issues apply.

xx.  Rules for Self-Inserts

• Your SI should be there to *supplement* the plot, not *supplant* it.  Help the other characters achieve their goals, do not achieve those goals for or instead of them.  Don't steal their awesome -- help them get *more* awesome.
  

Readers who look for stories set in their favourite works looked up your story to read about the characters and setting that they like. They aren't particularly interested in "The Amazing Adventures of Marty Stu and His Sidekicks from Some Story". Give the readers what they want and they'll stick around for the next chapter.

Yes, there are some Si characters and similar who have audiences of their own: Twister, Doug Sangnoir, Ed and Minerva, even (amazingly enough) Skysaber. But they started out as characters who were visiting other people's stories, and most of the characters that I listed did their best to fit in rather than to run roughshod over the existing plots.

As an example, Isekai by Moonlight's Robu-san rarely defeats the Monster of the Week and never defeats the season's Big Bad; his main story role is to ease the canon plotlines despite trying to change them, and to find boyfriends for the Senshi who don't have them. Not only does that leave something for the Sailor Senshi to do (unlike in so many episodes in canon), it's actually more fun to write than a steamroller-over-canon story would be.

• No one likes a show-off.  Even if you are far more competent or powerful than the other characters, do not run roughshod over them.  Complement them.  (*Not* "compliment".)  If necessary, give yourself a valid and believable in-story reason why you can't just wave your hand and fix everything, even if that's actually in your power to do.  This is not to say you can't give your SI the occasional set-piece that shows off how powerful or competent they are, but don't do it too often, and *never* at the expense of the setting's heroes.
  

Which ties into the "supplement, don't supplant" rule above. If the Si is a better fighter than Son Goku, why would the Dragon Ball fandom care about reading your story?

(And everybody likes getting a compliment, Bob! It's an ego boost. Do it too often and you get a reputation of being a flatterer, though.)

• At least some of the characters your SI meets and interacts with should *not* like your SI.  And I don't mean the bad guys -- that's a given.  Some of the *heroes* should find him suspicious, or too mysterious to be trustworthy, or just plain annoying (*especially* if he acts like a typical SI).  Conflict drives a story, and conflict among the good guys makes it *interesting* -- what good is knowing the entire plot if no one wants to listen to you?  And what I said about the bad guys a moment ago?  What if some of the bad guys *like* your SI regardless of his opinions on the matter?
  

This is especially important in a deconstruction. Nobody has a 100% Adoration Rating; there will always be somebody who doesn't like your character, because not everyone has the same concerns and interests that your self-insert has.

I'll point at My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character for an example of the consequences of not following this rule: one writer actually dropped out of the project because one of the other writers introduced a character who had a good reason to not like the first writer's SI character. Both writers refused to budge on the conflicting principles.

A corollary: Nobody has a 0% Approval Rating, either. If almost everybody hates someone, iconoclasts and saints will at the least have pity for him.

• Similarly, your SI shouldn't automatically like all the heroes and hate all the villains, even if he's coming in with full knowledge and awareness of what's going on.  He may *want* to, but frankly, I can think of a dozen protagonists from as many genres whom I love to read about or watch but whom I would find incredibly irritating in person.  (I'm looking at *you*, Ranma Saotome.)  Let your SI dislike anyone who deserves it -- and when appropriate, *like* anyone who deserves it, as well -- regardless of their "side".
  

This is a simple case of truth in fiction. If there are people who you don't like, why wouldn't there be people who your SI doesn't like? The SI is based on you, after all.

In My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character, there's a scene in "Like Calls to Like" where my SI lists what he likes the most about each of his residents. Ami notices that he had to think about what he liked about Kuroko...

Going to Isekai by Moonlight for another example: Robu-san and Tuxedo Kamen don't like each other, but are willing to work together. The reason has only been hinted at in-universe, so I'll put it in spoiler markup here:

Spoiler

Because of a bad first impression and Mamoru's reaction to the warnings he received from the future, Robu-san thinks Mamoru isn't good enough to be Usagi's boyfriend. And Mamoru has picked up on that.

The reasons for characters liking or disliking somebody don't need to be rational, but they should arise from the characters' personalities and the writer should know what they are.

• Even if your SI is deliberately there to get involved in the plot, don't drop him right in the middle of the action.  A self-insert story will play better if your character arrives on the outskirts of what's going on, and has to find his way to the fun -- or accidentally stumbles over it.  Your SI should also have interests and priorities that have nothing to do with the main plot -- like, for instance, *leaving* the story's world if he was sent there involuntarily.  If the only thing he does while there is dog the main characters' steps, he's going to look like a creepy stalker to them -- and maybe even to your readers.
  

Mentioning My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character again: even after my SI gets powers and a geas to act in the face of injustice, he still leaves defending Love and Justice to Sailor Moon. He's a support character, not a front-line fighter, no matter how much he'd prefer otherwise.

• If your SI is allegedly unaware of what he's getting into, don't write his reactions with *your* knowledge.  The prime example of this is someone dropped into a whole new (and unfamiliar) world automatically sussing out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are without any thought or effort.  Only in the most black-and-white worlds should this be believable.  (For a great example of an SI ignorant of the world he's been dropped into feeling his way through it, check out the "Revolutionary Girl Utena" fic "Ma Vie et Roses" by Scott Johnson and Scott K. Jamison.)
  

For this one, I'll pull an example from Blade and Epsilon's epic Hybrid Theory. While both of the SIs have some idea about the plots of some of the stories in that mega crossover, neither SI knows everything that's going on, and as a result each of them make mistakes that make it more difficult (and thus more interesting) for them to succeed. If fact, Blade's SI is so far off-base with his knowledge that he effectively becomes the setting's Big Bad.

• No matter how powerful or capable your SI is, *someone* will at least *try* to get the better of him -- and you know, they should succeed at least once.  If you can't be beaten, you can't be truly challenged, and if you can't be challenged, you have no conflict to drive a story.  And remember -- they don't have to challenge you where you excel.  Just because you're invulnerable, can lift mountains, and can waltz invisibly into the bad guys' headquarters doesn't mean you can't be out-thought or out-planned.
  

As so many sports anime and manga show us, defeat is also a learning experience that opens up new storytelling opportunities.

To re-emphasize the first point above, a quote from elsewhere in my guide: 

The First Commandment of Interventions:
"Thou shalt not cockblock someone else's torrid affair with awesomeness."  -- Alistair Young

Tying back to the "no 100% Adoration Rating" rule, cockblocking the characters who are native to the story is a good way to get them to dislike your SI.

And after that, I had this pasted in as something to draw inspiration from.  Several of its points already echo things I've said above, but there's other good advice here, too:

PsyckoSama's Rules for Self-Inserts

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/285562/PsyckoSama

The Ten Commandments of Writing an SI:

I: The SI is not you. It’s a character based on you. Remember this and maintain a degree of emotional detachment at all times. Treat your SI like you would any other character.

Even if your SI was a carbon copy of you when you dropped them into the story, they stop being you at that point because their life experiences are different from that point forward.

II: Know your strengths and flaws. If you can’t think of any, invent a couple. It’s only based on you after all.

This can be a difficult one to write. If your SI is based closely on you, then admitting what the SI's flaws are to the readers is the same as admitting to strangers what your own flaws are... and that's something that takes a certain level of maturity (and fearlessness) to do.

III: Have a couple prereaders with good bullshit detectors who are willing to smack you upside the head when you approach the Sue Zone. Even just having someone to bounce ideas off of can do a world of good and help kill some very bad ideas.

I am extremely lucky to have Labster as a prereader. He catches problems that I thought were strengths when I wrote them. (And I don't thank Brent enough for his work on my stories, so thank you again, Brent!)

IV: You are not an ironclad badass. In most of these series you’d be the extra who gets eaten by the aliens/demons/zombies and write accordingly. People are paranoid, panicky creatures and chances are you are no different. Remember this. Things can change with time but that’s what character development is for (See Rule VII).

You can play with this one if you drop your SI into a World of Badass, but even there, keep in mind the "supplement, don't supplant" rule.

And if the setting isn't a World of Badass, then some people – yes, the paranoid, panicky ones – will look at an ironclad badass and wonder whether they're a new villain.

V: Life is a mixed bag. Shit happens and it happens to you, don’t be afraid to torture yourself a bit. That said, remember, the good comes with the bad.

I have an advantage here in that the writing style that I've developed over decades mixes drama and humour. If your writing style tends toward action, or drama, or comedy, or angst, you might have trouble mixing in the elements that you don't naturally emphasize.

With that in mind remember the following two sub-rules.

Va: Avoid wish fulfillment. Good things can happen to you (see above) but your SI should never be an engine created specifically to allow you to be awesome, loved by everyone, and get all the chicks. If that’s what you really want, I’d suggest putting down the keyboard and reaching for a kleenex.

Wish-fulfillment can be done if you're willing to massively deconstruct it; see Ah! My Goddess for an example. But failing to take into account the downside of giving your SI what you think you really want leads to the stereotypical Mary Sue plot.

Vb: Avoid wangst. While it's necessary for bad things to happen to create tension, drama, and to propel the plot forward, avoid throwing yourself a pity party. Someone who only has bad things happen to them is just as annoying as someone who only has good things happen. When you go too far it becomes obnoxious cartoonish.

Besides, listening to other people complain is boring. Do this in your story – SI or not – in anything other than very-small doses and you'll drive away readers.

VI: Life goes on, with or without you. Do not make the universe wait on you, for life waits for no man. This is especially important in video game SIs. If you’re actually in the universe, treat it like a living breathing world. It’s not a magical playground that sits on its hands while you randomly run around and do awesome shit.

Pulling an example from My Apartment Manager is not an Isekai Character, the characters from Yumeiro Pâtissière set up shop and become successful before anyone who's supposed to help them acclimatize to the situation even know that they're in the setting.

And from Isekai by Moonlight: Robu-san accompanies Ami on her first two trips to Castle Mariner and helps her start repairs on her yacht from the Silver Millennium. Then he spends a lot of time with Makoto while Ami finishes the repair work without him... which surprises him when she actually launches the ship. (He even comments that she breaks a stupid genre convention in that he isn't involved in everything that his friends do.)

There are dozens, hundreds, or maybe billions of other people in your story. They don't all wait for the SI's cooperation to do things. In fact, some of them, for their own interests, will do things that act against what your SI wants to have happen. This is a source of subplots, not a problem.

VII: Balance your flow of time. Don’t rush what you write. While you might want to skip to the good stuff, doing so can be jarring and make your character look like a Mary Sue. Show us your character is growing and making friends, don’t just tell us. On the same note, be careful not to get bogged down in the minutia. There is such a thing as too much detail. We don’t need to see everything. If you’re training, you can show a montage. If you’re looking at a long span of time where nothing out of a ordinary is going to happen, consider a time skip. Things are permitted to happen in the background.

Not skipping the "boring" stuff also leads to plot developments. Sometimes these developments are things that you as a writer didn't expect.

If I had rushed Isekai by Moonliht Chapter S and jumped straight from the first encounter between Kalonite and Rei to the raid on Mugen Academy, none of the characters would have developed and all of the Witches 5 would have ended up dead. Instead, some of the villains were actually rescued from being possessed, all of the Senshi ended up being willing to work together instead of at cross-purposes, and Hotaru didn't end up going through her canon fate.

VIII: Throw curve balls at yourself. Even if you’re in a rather tight setting, your presence can create butterflies. In a loose one, you don’t know what’s around the bend. Good or bad, better or worse, do you find something or don’t you? I suggest the use of a randomizer. Flip a coin, roll some dice, pull pieces of paper out of a hat. Don’t let this do you thinking for you, but it can point you in directions you’d never have considered, and having a good chance to standing tall or fall flat on their face will do much to keep your character honest. But remember, you're not slave to the dice. Just let it point you in a direction, think about it, and see what comes out. You can sometimes come up with some amazing ideas that you never would have considered this way, even if it in no way resembles the original dice result.

A corollary: Sometimes, the random number gods tell you what you really wanted to write in the first place. You say "heads this happens, tails it doesn't" and you're disappointed with the result? Deep down, you wanted to write the other option... so write the one you didn't know that you wanted to write.

IX: Be careful with the use of meta-knowledge. Meta-knowledge should stay that. Meta. Be careful who you tell, and only tell those you trust. If you make what you know common knowledge, you will attract all sorts, and mostly for ill. No one likes a know it all, especially evil wizards, secret societies, and evil military dictatorships bent on total domination.

A corollary: Sharing the meta knowledge can invalidate that knowledge. Especially if your foes find out about the meta knowledge and change things up in order to lull you into a false sense of complacency.

X: This rule is related to rule IV and Vb in many ways, but deserves restating. In most cases you are not the main character of the universe. Events don’t revolve around you. There are others for that. You are a secondary character, if not background extra. To make yourself a main character, either hang with the mains, or do something, stand up and make the universe pay attention to you. But do remember, being a member of the central cast is a mixed bag. It often means you have the protection of plot, but on the same note, it means your life is always going to be interesting, and there is a very good reason that the ancient Chinese used it as a curse.

This isn't to say that you can't tell an interesting story about your character even when they aren't the lead. Consider that Touma Kamijo is the main character in A Certain Magical Index, but some of the most interesting stories in his world are about the girl who he doesn't realize is in love with him; those stories are told in A Certain Scientific Railgun.

You are the hero of your own story. You are not the hero of somebody else's story. Both stories are equally valid... but it's up to you as the writer to make the stories equally interesting.

[Bob Schroeck]

Thanks, Rob. Stickying this thread as a useful resource to the writer.

[Norgarth]

on the topic of meta-knowledge:
Sometimes the SI's simple presence can disrupt the 'canon' course. Sometimes from what the say/do even if they aren't trying to disrupt things.
Main Character A decides to visit with the SI, so they aren't at location B when event C happens, (which can be good or bad; maybe the MC misses a chance to meet someone important to the plot/find a Mcguffin, or maybe the villains are sitting around wondering why the hero hasn't walked into the ambush yet, he should have been there a half hour ago!)

alternatively something the SI says gives the MC a different perspective on things and they figure out a secret before they were 'supposed to' (accelerating the plot and possibly getting into a situation they aren't ready for yet)... or the MC gets the wrong idea and wastes time on a wild goose chase. Or the MC tries something that was technically possible but which they never would have thought of in canon.

in the Ring of Fire series (primarily) by Eric Flint, a 1990s West Virginia coal mining town finds itself abruptly in 'the Germanies' in November of 1631, smack in the middle of The Thirty Years War (both timeline wise and geographically) Simply being there sets off events which result in a year later people whom history said would be dead, and ones who should have lived longer being dead.

Some of the downtimers/locals upon learning uptime science/techniques combine it with their own know-how to create future developments 'early' and in some cases invent entirely new things.

Others make decisions (good and bad) based on info from the Uptime books and how they interpret it.

... I think I'm starting to wander away from the original point.

In summary, the SI's mere presence is going to alter things to some degree, maybe in ways that invalidate/change some of their meta-knowledge.