(11-29-2020, 10:29 PM)GethN7 Wrote: Rob, until those lawsuits result in a CONVICTION for a legal offense, Trump is not guilty of squat. When that happens, get back to me.
Ehm, yes he is. Trump's guilty of the crimes he has committed. Whether or not he's prosecuted is irrelevant. Whether or not he's convicted is irrelevant. The trial process exists to figure out if there's enough evidence to state beyond reasonable doubt that the suspect was in fact the party responsible and to determine the consequences of that determination.
As a society you try to avoid the court of public opinion because that court is absolutely terrible at figuring out whether or not someone actually did what they've been accused of.
(11-29-2020, 10:29 PM)GethN7 Wrote: Also, Obama did drone strike people:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-drone-strikes/
Note, I never said it was illegal for him to do so. So long as those strikes were properly authorized, he committed no legal crimes, though one can argue the moral side all day long if you want.
I'm pretty sure that extra judicially killing people is all sorts of illegal regardless of where they are, and only a declared war suspends some of those restrictions. And I do mean some.
(11-29-2020, 10:29 PM)GethN7 Wrote: The point I'm getting at is that if Trump is tossed out of office and actually convicted of a legal offense, he can rightfully be called a criminal. Until then, he legally is not one until then. It's not partisanship to say that, it's innocent until proven guilty, which I hold dear for everyone, even people I may not like. In fact, I hold it especially dear for them, because once they've been convicted of a crime following due process, one can be sure they earned it.
Back to the point, if Trump loses, fine, so be it, but until that's in black and white, it's precipitous to say anything is for sure.
Ehm, Trump's lost the popular vote by a land slide, so he's lost on that count. He's also lost the presumptive electoral delegation vote by what he described a landslide margin in 2016, although we've yet to see what the electors are going to vote. It's not premature at all to say he's lost the election, given that to claim victory more than 30 of the electors from Biden's delegation would have to defect to Trump's side. Not impossible, admittedly, but exceedingly unlikely.
Trump can rightfully be called a criminal. The public has seen the way Trump's acted and more than a few of his actions are, or at least would have been were he not president, criminal. That doesn't mean the government will call him a criminal until they indict him, because governments are held to a different standard than the general public is. However, he cannot be called a convict until he's convicted of a crime.