By reading the article rmthorn suggested on the EPA sight I learned that in order to slow down the decomposition of the Ozone layer we should be dropping laughing gas (NOx) and not ozone up/down there during certain times of year. The sun does break down the Ozone it provides the UV light that is used to make chlorine oxide, which causes the seasonal holes. More sun light, more UV, faster break down. Chlorofluorocarbon are CFCs. Though it lists other chemicals and says bromine is 40 times more dangerous to the Ozone Layer. Which is something you never hear about. Which was my original point in starting this thread.
Your quote above this Marganni is also directly related to this it is irrelevant what is going on its a matter of what people think is going on. If people think what is going on is they are going to get skin cancer and go blind, because the Ozone Layer is depleting. They will panic, as they want to avoid their blind, cancerous doom. They will follow anyone that says they can help avoid this Charisma trumps logic as a motivator/ Which is what happened in the first place.
As a kid, I lived through the panic driven environmentalist movement that for me culminated with the creation of Captain Planet and the Planeteers. At which point people stopped and stared. When you jump the shark.. the shark shouldnt be lecturing you about industrial waste being dumped in the oceans while you do it. Robocop movies are another example the Ozone Layer was gone in those. They made a joke of it, but that was what people were proclaiming would happen. I remember a commercial in one movie that claimed if you went outside without 2000 spf sunscreen your going to be charcoal in 10 seconds.
If you remember I was commenting on the media not bothering to pick up the ever-growing ozone holes on this in the first place, as my main point of this thread. Though I swear the EPA sight said there is only one now, I may have misread that.
Okay... most of the issues stated about my previous post are flat out not reading what I actually wrote, or only reading my last post as a lone statement. Please reread my previous post for the answers to the following question and/or comments.
That NASA, the apparent authority on the Ozone holes, keeps Marvel Retconning is something I find trying on my suspension of disbelief (not in the holes, but in the people at NASA understanding what they are doing on this). Now perhaps your not actually aware of what a Marvel Retcon is and how it differs from a regular retcon. A regular retcon, I'll quote myself on from the above post of mine:
So when I say that NASA pulled a MARVEL RETCON... I mean they just keep revising the model, to cover themselves. This serves the purpose of making them look like they know what they are doing... even if they don't. NASA making a new model saying 2010 was the 'recovery' start in 2005 (article from a post above my last one I couldn't get the link to work). Then in 2006 remaking the model so it has the 'recovery' start time is in 2018 shows this.
To me this looks like they are moving the date for the sole reason of keeping the blame off them for getting it wrong. NASA scientists don't appear to have a tangible idea when the 'recovery' is going to take place. They don't have a baseline (as I described in the last post), so they can't actually tell us when the 'recovery' will start... because they don't know how to even tell such a thing and they aren't going to admit it. That would kill their authority status on the subject.
If anyone has info on what the official level of damage mankind caused to the Ozone Layer, now would be a great time to post it.
Manmade Global Warming is unproven and the way people try to prove it is with major leaps of logic or flubbing things to make these models work. (Or not work in the other thread it was stated one of the models gave out the same result regardless of input.) We are not going to change our way of life just so you left-wing environmentalist nutballs feel better, or more powerful for influencing the West to do as you want.
In some cases its also stated, man cant cause global warming anyway,, so why should we listen towards those left-wing environmentalist wacko loons and downgrade our lifestyle to make them happy, it won't make the happy anyway just hungry for more changes to validate their power. What increase in temperature there has been is totally within normal limits and has historical precedent anyway... so stop trying to force the West to bend towards your will. Trying to stop what we arent doing in the first place is stupid.
Its not that they wont take changes to things. Its not that they wont do some of the things that the other side is commanded changed. Its that taking responsibility for something we didnt do in the first place and isnt happening is stupid. That and so many things are blamed on MGW (even blatantly conflicting things) that having something caused by MGW is basically become the equivalent of saying a wizard did it and it has become a hand wave explanation.
A good parody of this is a recent Sluggy Freelance where people asked what how a volcano could talk and excepted Global Warming as an answer. This kind of stuff happened before with the Ozone Holes. As I said Im most interested in the hype factor of this.
I think I explained that correctly.. if I mess that up a bit I blame tiredness.
Your quote above this Marganni is also directly related to this it is irrelevant what is going on its a matter of what people think is going on. If people think what is going on is they are going to get skin cancer and go blind, because the Ozone Layer is depleting. They will panic, as they want to avoid their blind, cancerous doom. They will follow anyone that says they can help avoid this Charisma trumps logic as a motivator/ Which is what happened in the first place.
As a kid, I lived through the panic driven environmentalist movement that for me culminated with the creation of Captain Planet and the Planeteers. At which point people stopped and stared. When you jump the shark.. the shark shouldnt be lecturing you about industrial waste being dumped in the oceans while you do it. Robocop movies are another example the Ozone Layer was gone in those. They made a joke of it, but that was what people were proclaiming would happen. I remember a commercial in one movie that claimed if you went outside without 2000 spf sunscreen your going to be charcoal in 10 seconds.
If you remember I was commenting on the media not bothering to pick up the ever-growing ozone holes on this in the first place, as my main point of this thread. Though I swear the EPA sight said there is only one now, I may have misread that.
Quote:*Blink* I thought Id answered that, more than once To what end do you want me the answer that?
And while I'm asking questions. Hey, Necratoid, do you think reducing the use of CFCs is a bad idea?
Okay... most of the issues stated about my previous post are flat out not reading what I actually wrote, or only reading my last post as a lone statement. Please reread my previous post for the answers to the following question and/or comments.
Quote:Note this statement, rmthorn. It immediately precedes your quote of me. I'm not arguing against CFCs breaking down Ozone that is chemistry... I'm questioning how much of an effect man has actually had on this size (current, percent increase, or percent decrease) of the Ozone holes. I dont think Ive seen that explained.
Declaring them entirely man's fault or even not at all man's fault is bad science.
That NASA, the apparent authority on the Ozone holes, keeps Marvel Retconning is something I find trying on my suspension of disbelief (not in the holes, but in the people at NASA understanding what they are doing on this). Now perhaps your not actually aware of what a Marvel Retcon is and how it differs from a regular retcon. A regular retcon, I'll quote myself on from the above post of mine:
Quote:Marvel Retcon is named after one of Marvel Comics bad habits from the 1990s. When they changed something retroactively, because the made a misprint... they then changed the timeline so that the misprint is now cannon and the old reality, from previous comics, is no longer what happened. This made it rather hard to keep up... it got so bad they had to restart entire series multiple times, because no one knew what happened anymore. They literally made things that confusing.
Yes reevaluating data and publishing new conclusions is a form retconning. Not all retconning is bad (like the Bohr atom model being tossed aside as realistic and the electron cloud taking its place)
So when I say that NASA pulled a MARVEL RETCON... I mean they just keep revising the model, to cover themselves. This serves the purpose of making them look like they know what they are doing... even if they don't. NASA making a new model saying 2010 was the 'recovery' start in 2005 (article from a post above my last one I couldn't get the link to work). Then in 2006 remaking the model so it has the 'recovery' start time is in 2018 shows this.
To me this looks like they are moving the date for the sole reason of keeping the blame off them for getting it wrong. NASA scientists don't appear to have a tangible idea when the 'recovery' is going to take place. They don't have a baseline (as I described in the last post), so they can't actually tell us when the 'recovery' will start... because they don't know how to even tell such a thing and they aren't going to admit it. That would kill their authority status on the subject.
If anyone has info on what the official level of damage mankind caused to the Ozone Layer, now would be a great time to post it.
Quote:That is a basic misunderstanding of the viewpoint of those people. Im going to risk a pointless trollfest and try to explain. Do not try to counter this section of the post. This is explanatory. First off, On MGW I can answer that easy enough. It is not that they think man isnt the sole cause, so we should ignore it and do nothing about it. Its that they don't think man caused it in the first place. It is a manufactured crisis that is made specifically for political gain and vengeance against the industrial West for being better off than other parts of the world.
I'm puzzled why some people seem to think that just because humans aren't the sole cause of ozone depletion (or global warming, as per the other thread), that we should just do nothing about it.
Manmade Global Warming is unproven and the way people try to prove it is with major leaps of logic or flubbing things to make these models work. (Or not work in the other thread it was stated one of the models gave out the same result regardless of input.) We are not going to change our way of life just so you left-wing environmentalist nutballs feel better, or more powerful for influencing the West to do as you want.
In some cases its also stated, man cant cause global warming anyway,, so why should we listen towards those left-wing environmentalist wacko loons and downgrade our lifestyle to make them happy, it won't make the happy anyway just hungry for more changes to validate their power. What increase in temperature there has been is totally within normal limits and has historical precedent anyway... so stop trying to force the West to bend towards your will. Trying to stop what we arent doing in the first place is stupid.
Its not that they wont take changes to things. Its not that they wont do some of the things that the other side is commanded changed. Its that taking responsibility for something we didnt do in the first place and isnt happening is stupid. That and so many things are blamed on MGW (even blatantly conflicting things) that having something caused by MGW is basically become the equivalent of saying a wizard did it and it has become a hand wave explanation.
A good parody of this is a recent Sluggy Freelance where people asked what how a volcano could talk and excepted Global Warming as an answer. This kind of stuff happened before with the Ozone Holes. As I said Im most interested in the hype factor of this.
I think I explained that correctly.. if I mess that up a bit I blame tiredness.