There are a few things I will note here.
The soft cap for defense versus an attack is +45%. This means that while you can push a character's defense higher
(all the way to the hard cap)...after +45% it mostly has no effect.
Due to the way attack mechanics and formulas work, having defense numbers past 45% will usually not help - the
additional defense past 45% will kick in if your opponent is using ToHit buffs (ie. Tactics, Aim, Build Up...ToHit buff is not the same as Accuracy slotting).
The additional defense will also provide a buffer against defense debuffs.
But.
In most cases, just remember that +45% defense is the magic number, and there's generally little point for most characters to exceed it in PvE. There is
some point in PvP, but only to a degree.
Watching what you've just said, I will hazard that the Stalker was not soft-capped for defense. That the Widow
was ... isn't strange. Many serious PvPers (and for that matter, many serious PvErs) pursue the defense soft cap
with religious fervour.
Cyberman 8 is not soft-capped for defense. 30%-ish defense to all areas is perfectly adequate for PvE, but it's
not near the cap. Increasingly, the thinking is that if you want to play a defense set in PvP, you got to push it to the limit. That'd be 45%.
Cyberman is an SR scrapper...it can be done. The trick is that you would have to specifically build for this.
We've argued this before, but I really do think, and will continue to insist...there is a difference between a build pimped out for PvP or PvE maximisation and one for concept. While you've claimed your concept
build for Cyberman is indeed very close to a maximised build...I dunno. I don't think that's likely the case.
I'll talk about how you can potentially reach the cap in a moment. Bear with me, I'll talk through VEATs first, then discuss how you'd do this for
an SR scrapper.
Now. A VEAT has an easier time reaching the soft cap, with power choices and simple SO-slotting alone, than any other defense-based AT. I am not familiar with
the numbers for Ice Tankers, but it can hit the magic 45% mark easier than any flavour of Super Reflexes, Energy Aura, or Ninjutsu.
Okay. That's true. The downside is they have absolutely no defense debuff resistance. And there are debuffs in the game that do not require a to-hit check
to land in the first place - Radiation Infection comes to mind, because I'm a Rad junkie. There are others. Mostly, though, this means that a Defender,
Controller, or Corruptor would have the best chance of punishing a VEAT built for soft-capped defense. I suspect this is supposed to be the balance factor.
Whether it works as balance is up to you, I can't really say. I'm not sure it does, but that's a different debate.
The other downside is that to push defense numbers like that while solo, a VEAT is sacrificing elsewhere. My own Bane
build is tight as hell because this is exactly what I'm doing. How does a VEAT cap defense? Mostly you want CT: Defensive and TT: Manuevers from your
secondary, regular pool Manuevers, Combat Jumping and Weave. Slot your Hide-equiv power for defense if you've got it, and in the case of the Widow
variants, which we're discussing here, Foresight and Mind Link. Yes, that is a LOT of powers. That's the trade-off. There's always a cost.
How about the other powersets? It's a similar sort of deal. Power choices are key.
Ninjutsu and Super Reflexes characters can nearly soft-cap defense on power choices alone. Putting aside Nin for the moment...if a SR scrapper takes (and
slots) Combat Jumping, Weave, and Manuevers, you'll hit 42.7% defense to ranged/melee/aoe based on even-level SO slotting - that is, white SOs only. Using
level 50 common IOs takes you to 43.4% defense, if my numbers are accurate (from Mids). This is within spitting range of the 45% soft-cap.
Now...Ninjutsu and SR are positional-defense sets. There are several IO sets (non-purple) that give melee/ranged/aoe defense bonuses...more so than sets that
give typed (ie. smash/lethal, fire, etc) defense, which is good news. However, I will note that the positional defense bonuses tend to be at the 5-slotted or
6-slotted mark in the bonus table, so going this route will almost certainly damage the effectiveness of certain powers. Again, that's the cost.
(For an MA/SR, look at melee sets Touch of Death and Mako's Bite, PBAoE sets Multi-Strike and Scirocco's Dervish, defense sets Red Fortune and possibly
Serendipity - there are also ranged attack, heal, immob and disorient sets that could potentially work depending on your power choices.)
In practice, I'd suggest trying to soft-cap an SR scrapper by a few power choices in that direction, and then possibly round it out with IO bonuses. The trick here is, you're probably not going to love the powers you end up with and how
they're slotted. But please bear in mind, to achieve high defense numbers a VEAT needs to make sacrifices too. Just because they have an easier job with it
doesn't mean it's trivial.
I would like to close with that reminder. I've seen a lot of vehemence thrown at VEATs by players in our group, and this saddens me. Not because I play a
VEAT, but because I don't think we're being entirely fair or rational. I'd like to think we're more civil and mature than the OMG WTF NERF LOL
crowd. F'example, there was a long rant on the channel about how Fortunatas are broken because they have both ranged psi damage and Elude, and whose bright
idea was it to give them Elude? Fortunatas with Elude was the point of the complaint.
As OpMegs noted, Fortunata branch does not have Elude. Elude is in the Night Widow branch. It may have been in the Blood Widow base branch at an earlier date
of beta, but it certainly is not now. This isn't an important point, though, it's almost tangential to the discussion at hand, but it is symptomatic of the trap we're falling into. For the record, Fortunatas don't have Elude. Night Widows do have Elude
and they get a handful of psi ranged attacks, but their ranged attacks are relatively weak - the worst for any VEAT
branch, IIRC. If you're fighting something with psi and elude, it's a Night Widow.
Unfair? I don't know. But as you can see, the numbers can be massaged in an SR scrapper's favour too. That was the point of this exercise.
-- Acyl
The soft cap for defense versus an attack is +45%. This means that while you can push a character's defense higher
(all the way to the hard cap)...after +45% it mostly has no effect.
Due to the way attack mechanics and formulas work, having defense numbers past 45% will usually not help - the
additional defense past 45% will kick in if your opponent is using ToHit buffs (ie. Tactics, Aim, Build Up...ToHit buff is not the same as Accuracy slotting).
The additional defense will also provide a buffer against defense debuffs.
But.
In most cases, just remember that +45% defense is the magic number, and there's generally little point for most characters to exceed it in PvE. There is
some point in PvP, but only to a degree.
Watching what you've just said, I will hazard that the Stalker was not soft-capped for defense. That the Widow
was ... isn't strange. Many serious PvPers (and for that matter, many serious PvErs) pursue the defense soft cap
with religious fervour.
Cyberman 8 is not soft-capped for defense. 30%-ish defense to all areas is perfectly adequate for PvE, but it's
not near the cap. Increasingly, the thinking is that if you want to play a defense set in PvP, you got to push it to the limit. That'd be 45%.
Cyberman is an SR scrapper...it can be done. The trick is that you would have to specifically build for this.
We've argued this before, but I really do think, and will continue to insist...there is a difference between a build pimped out for PvP or PvE maximisation and one for concept. While you've claimed your concept
build for Cyberman is indeed very close to a maximised build...I dunno. I don't think that's likely the case.
I'll talk about how you can potentially reach the cap in a moment. Bear with me, I'll talk through VEATs first, then discuss how you'd do this for
an SR scrapper.
Now. A VEAT has an easier time reaching the soft cap, with power choices and simple SO-slotting alone, than any other defense-based AT. I am not familiar with
the numbers for Ice Tankers, but it can hit the magic 45% mark easier than any flavour of Super Reflexes, Energy Aura, or Ninjutsu.
Okay. That's true. The downside is they have absolutely no defense debuff resistance. And there are debuffs in the game that do not require a to-hit check
to land in the first place - Radiation Infection comes to mind, because I'm a Rad junkie. There are others. Mostly, though, this means that a Defender,
Controller, or Corruptor would have the best chance of punishing a VEAT built for soft-capped defense. I suspect this is supposed to be the balance factor.
Whether it works as balance is up to you, I can't really say. I'm not sure it does, but that's a different debate.
The other downside is that to push defense numbers like that while solo, a VEAT is sacrificing elsewhere. My own Bane
build is tight as hell because this is exactly what I'm doing. How does a VEAT cap defense? Mostly you want CT: Defensive and TT: Manuevers from your
secondary, regular pool Manuevers, Combat Jumping and Weave. Slot your Hide-equiv power for defense if you've got it, and in the case of the Widow
variants, which we're discussing here, Foresight and Mind Link. Yes, that is a LOT of powers. That's the trade-off. There's always a cost.
How about the other powersets? It's a similar sort of deal. Power choices are key.
Ninjutsu and Super Reflexes characters can nearly soft-cap defense on power choices alone. Putting aside Nin for the moment...if a SR scrapper takes (and
slots) Combat Jumping, Weave, and Manuevers, you'll hit 42.7% defense to ranged/melee/aoe based on even-level SO slotting - that is, white SOs only. Using
level 50 common IOs takes you to 43.4% defense, if my numbers are accurate (from Mids). This is within spitting range of the 45% soft-cap.
Now...Ninjutsu and SR are positional-defense sets. There are several IO sets (non-purple) that give melee/ranged/aoe defense bonuses...more so than sets that
give typed (ie. smash/lethal, fire, etc) defense, which is good news. However, I will note that the positional defense bonuses tend to be at the 5-slotted or
6-slotted mark in the bonus table, so going this route will almost certainly damage the effectiveness of certain powers. Again, that's the cost.
(For an MA/SR, look at melee sets Touch of Death and Mako's Bite, PBAoE sets Multi-Strike and Scirocco's Dervish, defense sets Red Fortune and possibly
Serendipity - there are also ranged attack, heal, immob and disorient sets that could potentially work depending on your power choices.)
In practice, I'd suggest trying to soft-cap an SR scrapper by a few power choices in that direction, and then possibly round it out with IO bonuses. The trick here is, you're probably not going to love the powers you end up with and how
they're slotted. But please bear in mind, to achieve high defense numbers a VEAT needs to make sacrifices too. Just because they have an easier job with it
doesn't mean it's trivial.
I would like to close with that reminder. I've seen a lot of vehemence thrown at VEATs by players in our group, and this saddens me. Not because I play a
VEAT, but because I don't think we're being entirely fair or rational. I'd like to think we're more civil and mature than the OMG WTF NERF LOL
crowd. F'example, there was a long rant on the channel about how Fortunatas are broken because they have both ranged psi damage and Elude, and whose bright
idea was it to give them Elude? Fortunatas with Elude was the point of the complaint.
As OpMegs noted, Fortunata branch does not have Elude. Elude is in the Night Widow branch. It may have been in the Blood Widow base branch at an earlier date
of beta, but it certainly is not now. This isn't an important point, though, it's almost tangential to the discussion at hand, but it is symptomatic of the trap we're falling into. For the record, Fortunatas don't have Elude. Night Widows do have Elude
and they get a handful of psi ranged attacks, but their ranged attacks are relatively weak - the worst for any VEAT
branch, IIRC. If you're fighting something with psi and elude, it's a Night Widow.
Unfair? I don't know. But as you can see, the numbers can be massaged in an SR scrapper's favour too. That was the point of this exercise.
-- Acyl