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[OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
[OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#1
So here we are!

In our conversation after I made my decision to leave TNB, it looks like some of the biggest changes are going to be in the Halloween Story, which will likely be a total rewrite, as well as the complete removal of the residences in San Antonio as there will be no one who feels up to the task of writing that setting but me.

Which means we're gonna have to shuffle some displacees around.

We're letting Inquisitive Raven have first dibs on the Lyrical Nanoha characters.  Regardless of if she wants to write them or not, they'll likely be placed into that NPC residence so as to be used as open characters.

The Evangelion Crew will all likely go to Douglas Gardens, as it is canonical that Rei, Asuka, and Shinji are all talented young musicians.  And given what they went through, all of them, probably even Asuka, too, will likely appreciate being in an environment that's nowhere nearly as "exciting" as Tokyo-III was.

Having Misato, Kaji, and Ritsuko around over there will probably be for the best, anyhow.  Someone has to ride herd on the Gorillaz, after all, and they'll need someone with extensive medical knowledge to handle some of the absurd injuries they're bound to incur.  (Except for Noodle, but Noodle is just plain bad-ass like that.)

Hotaru and Setsuna can probably arrive with Haruka and Michiru.  Setsuna being comatose throughout Season 1 will make these two understandably twitchy, secretive, and prone to falling back into bad habits.  Bonus points if it becomes something Hotaru scolds them for, which will have a hell of a lot more impact coming from her than if such a scolding came from Usagi.

The FMP crew...  No idea.  This could be a chance to include the Tuatha de Danaan - life is always so much better with a stealth amphibious assault submarine.  Maybe somewhere in LA?  San Diego?  Or how about the Puget Sound?

No, wait.  Throw them in with the Hanagumi.  Kohbu are about the same scale as Arm Slaves, after all.  They'll fit right in~.  (Seriously.  Imagine Teletha butting heads with Li Koran over Magic vs Lambda Driver.)

Tenchi and Company...  No idea for sure, either.  But the Puget Sound seems like a better fit for them.  Plenty of room, similar climate to Okayama (but no snow during Winter).  The Serenity and her crew will probably need to go with them, because Washu's Lab is the only thing we got that can accommodate a ship like that.

The Puella Magi...  It might be better to place them with the Lyrical Nanoha contingent.  If nothing else, the TSAB people might be able to come up with a stop-gap measure for dealing with corruption in soul gems.

Not gonna cover the characters from RWBY because we haven't really done much with them.  Except for a name-drop in one of Rob's stories that was gonna get axed anyhow because I hadn't brought them in yet.  Also there was the Night at Callahan's recap, but that was gonna get rewritten anyhow.

That's all I can think of - I hope I'm not forgetting anyone.
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#2
Well, I wasn't going to post the recton to Donaldson en Kazakiri until we'd heard from Inquisitive Raven, but now it's become necessary... Note that this is still tentative, pending updates if somebody wants to write the characters named in it.

This turns the Retcon into a Cosmic Retcon, which as a writer I much prefer to simply saying "that didn't happen any more".



Blossom Apartments, Ottawa, ON, Canada
December 21, 2016
1:07pm ET



Hyoga opened the letter that Belldandy had given her without Rob's knowledge.

"My dearest Hyoga,

"I know that this will be hard for you, but you will need to live with the fact that you are one of the few beings who remember how the universe existed before you and Mr. Donaldson repaired Hvergelmir. Most things remain the same, but there are a few people who we approached in this version of reality that we did not approach in the reality of your birth, and vice versa.

"Here are the most important changes that people will expect you to know. Firstly, the Juraians are living in Vancouver, under the care of a residence manager named Garnett Iwasaki. Secondly, my husband and his comrades from Whirlwind are living in New Brunswick, along with your friends in Hokago Tea Time. Thirdly, you are already friends with Hokago Tea Time. Fourthly, the Pensacola residence is being managed by Harley Waters. Fifthly, the Halloween Party was held in Addams Mansion, and that is where Yui Hirasawa and Shinji Ikari first met. Sixthly, the TSAB girls are living in Philadelphia with Admiral Halrowan. Seventhly, Ms. Akemi and her friends are living in Vicksburg with the other time-travellers. I ask that you make contact with Ms. Akemi since she also has scattered memories of the previous version of reality and would appreciate being able to speak with somebody about them. I know that this will mean that you will be unable to accompany Mii and Ami on their trip to Windsor next week.

"There are more changes, but I will leave them for you to discover.

"One more thing; Sailors Saturn and Pluto are living with Sailors Uranus and Neptune now, and Sailor Pluto needs some medical care that the others cannot give her.

"Please be assured and remember that you can call on us in a time of great emergency.

"Belldandy"


As the letter disappeared into motes of light, Hyoga wondered why Mii and Ami would be going to Windsor next week.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#3
And as long as we're retconning, I can retcon Blossom into being bigger. It'll still need to be Twinned so that Mimi is Twinned, but for different reasons.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#4
(05-18-2022, 10:50 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: That's all I can think of - I hope I'm not forgetting anyone.

Jareth the Goblin King... but he was only involved in your plotline, so unless somebody else wants to write him, he may as well head back to his Labyrinth.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#5
(05-18-2022, 10:50 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: The FMP crew...  No idea.  This could be a chance to include the Tuatha de Danaan - life is always so much better with a stealth amphibious assault submarine.  Maybe somewhere in LA?  San Diego?  Or how about the Puget Sound?

No, wait.  Throw them in with the Hanagumi.  Kohbu are about the same scale as Arm Slaves, after all.  They'll fit right in~.  (Seriously.  Imagine Teletha butting heads with Li Koran over Magic vs Lambda Driver.)

I was going to point out that Atlanta isn't even a river port, let alone a seaport... but then I remembered we tossed out the idea of putting the Nadia core cast in Atlanta. So, yeah. EDIT: Although we do have a "steampunk" theme going in Atlanta, so maybe not, after all. It's not as if this is my decision, though.

We'll just have to find some place else to put the TDD and the Nautilus, is all.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#6
(05-19-2022, 07:13 AM)robkelk Wrote: Firstly, the Juraians are living in Vancouver, under the care of a residence manager named Garnett Iwasaki. ... Fourthly, the Pensacola residence is being managed by Harley Waters.

If anyone wants to join the writers' circle, you could replace either of these people.

Otherwise... they need descriptions. I was careful to pick ambiguous-gender names for them so as to keep people's options open.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#7
Amazing how often "Reinforce Taiga" is being replaced with "Ririka Project" on character pages...
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#8
(05-19-2022, 07:13 AM)robkelk Wrote: Well, I wasn't going to post the recton to Donaldson en Kazakiri until we'd heard from Inquisitive Raven, but now it's become necessary... Note that this is still tentative, pending updates if somebody wants to write the characters named in it.

This turns the Retcon into a Cosmic Retcon, which as a writer I much prefer to simply saying "that didn't happen any more".



Blossom Apartments, Ottawa, ON, Canada
December 21, 2016
1:07pm ET



Hyoga opened the letter that Belldandy had given her without Rob's knowledge.

"My dearest Hyoga,

"I know that this will be hard for you, but you will need to live with the fact that you are one of the few beings who remember how the universe existed before you and Mr. Donaldson repaired Hvergelmir. Most things remain the same, but there are a few people who we approached in this version of reality that we did not approach in the reality of your birth, and vice versa.

"Here are the most important changes that people will expect you to know. Firstly, the Juraians are living in Vancouver, under the care of a residence manager named Garnett Iwasaki. Secondly, my husband and his comrades from Whirlwind are living in New Brunswick, along with your friends in Hokago Tea Time. Thirdly, you are already friends with Hokago Tea Time. Fourthly, the Pensacola residence is being managed by Harley Waters. Fifthly, the Halloween Party was held in Addams Mansion, and that is where Yui Hirasawa and Shinji Ikari first met. Sixthly, the TSAB girls are living in Philadelphia with Admiral Halrowan. Seventhly, Ms. Akemi and her friends are living in Vicksburg with the other time-travellers. I ask that you make contact with Ms. Akemi sine she also has scattered memories of the previous version of reality and would appreciate being able to speak with somebody about them. I know that this will mean that you will be unable to accompany Mii and Ami on their trip to Windsor next week.

"There are more changes, but I will leave them for you to discover.

"One more thing; Sailors Saturn and Pluto are living with Sailors Uranus and Neptune now, and Sailor Pluto needs some medical care that the others cannot give her.

"Please be assured and remember that you can call on us in a time of great emergency.

"Belldandy"


As the letter disappeared into motes of light, Hyoga wondered why Mii and Ami would be going to Windsor next week.

I like this, on some level.

It offers a way back in down the line should such things be considered. Simply find the dangling pointer that hasn't been referenced. All the data is still there.

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#9
Uh.

Why are we separating Homura from the rest of the Puella Magi?  I get that technically she is a time traveler, but all she did was loop through time.  She had no ability to travel to a predetermined point in time, or any other aside from her designated "start point".  Granted, she does have her time-stop ability, but that doesn't really make her a "Traveler of Time" either.  At best, it makes her a "Time Manipulator", and one that has that one and only one trick, at that.

Also, are we ditching the whole "Karas" thing?
https://theresnothingbetter.miraheze.org...displacees?

I mean, I know that Homura was a lone wolf at the end there, but she still associated closely enough with her original group of friends that I don't see why she wouldn't be in that group.  And if nothing else?  She is still madly in love with Madoka, and once she finds out where Madoka is?  HAH!  You might as well try and stop an earthquake.

(I know people usually use things like "Typhoon" or "Tsunami", but some pedantics out there like to try and think of theoretical ways of "Stopping" these things.  Earthquakes?  No such thing.  They happen, and nothing will keep them from happening, and that is exactly what you have on your hands with Homu-chan.)

Also, using the excuse of "But Madoka is a Goddess" doesn't work.  Because so is Homu-chan.  A dark goddess, yes, but still a goddess nonetheless.

(EDIT: Also, if you're gonna run with the thing that Madoka is going around in nothing but God-Mode Madokami, then Sayaka and Bebe are "dead" and working as Madokami's trusted lieutenants, but Kyoko and Mami are not. It is cannonical that The Law of Cycles can work independently of Madoka. She simply chose not to because she felt leaving Madoka around is too much of a liability - after all, look at what happened before she ascended to godhood!)

Other nitpick:
Why is Setsuna suddenly "curable"?  I thought her issue was that the Malleable Causality System was screwing around with her mind because of how it keeps rewriting causality all the time.  The only way to really "cure" her would be to isolate her from the Metacontinuity by putting her into something like a temporally shielded pocket dimension.

(Which, Washu-chan could do, but she would have to know about it first.  And if Hyoga knows about it?  Then Washu-chan will hear it from her in short order.  And this will nix story telling potential in that you no longer have an element that is making Haruka and Michiru feeling twitchy enough to do something stupid.)

The only other way to "cure" Setsuna is to remove her Time Travel+Time Manipulation abilities.  And again, this removes a potential source of conflict for Haruka and Michiru.

Are you sure you want to play it like this?  Just asking because one of the reasons why I tried to limit Washu-chan's use was to avoid wave-the-magic-wand scenarios because they remove so much story telling potential.

(EDIT2: I know I said I wasn't going to play an active role as a writer anymore, but don't think that means I'm not gonna come by and ask the very same sorts of questions the readers will ask.)
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#10
(05-19-2022, 03:04 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: Uh.

Why are we separating Homura from the rest of the Puella Magi?

Huh? We aren't doing that. The whole group's going.

(05-19-2022, 03:04 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: Other nitpick:
Why is Setsuna suddenly "curable"? 

Huh? "needs some medical care" isn't the same as "curable". I know that from nearly a decade of personal experience. EDIT: Wikipedia has a relevant article.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#11
Sorry, I somehow missed the "And Her Friends" part.

But Re: Setsuna... Keep in mind Hotaru is a Healer as well, and one on par with Usagi once she's hitting her stride. It may be better to say that Hotaru is managing, but could use a comrade-in-arms.

(EDIT: Also, how do you plan to keep Washu-chan from knowing about this and handwaving the problem away?)
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#12
(05-19-2022, 03:49 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: But Re: Setsuna... Keep in mind Hotaru is a Healer as well, and one on par with Usagi once she's hitting her stride.  It may be better to say that Hotaru is managing, but could use a comrade-in-arms.

It doesn't matter how good one person is, she needs help with providing palliative care.


(05-19-2022, 03:49 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: (EDIT: Also, how do you plan to keep Washu-chan from knowing about this and handwaving the problem away?)

Um... er... How well does Washuu-chan understand Malleable Causality? And how many other problems is she already working on?
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#13
Okay, let me first say that I know you're running the show now.  This is only critique based on what I had originally intended.

For one, palliative care does not apply to comatose patients because the point of palliative care is to improve the patient's quality of life.  That's kinda hard to do when they're not even conscious.  I believe what you're after is "Supportive Care for Coma Patients".  And the "Coma Patients" bit is important because "Supportive Care" tends to be used interchangeably with "Palliative Care" - it makes the distinction that you're dealing with someone who is not conscious of the world around them.

Granted, I did have it that now and then she would wake up, but for the most part she would spend days, sometimes weeks at a time, in a comatose state.  And these wakeful moments were literally that - mere moments that she was awake.  (This is part of why Hotaru was so amazed by the doll Setsuna gave her for Saturnalia.)

For the more mundane aspects of care, such as bathing and handling bodily waste, I was handwaving that with the excuse that Hotaru is just that powerful of a healer.

Before arguing that point: consider the fact that her healing abilities are supposed to mirror her destructive abilities...  And this girl is very literally the apocalypse in human form.  She's even able to self-resurrect herself, and though it has the disadvantage of having her start over again from being an infant, she also has accelerated growth during this time so that in a few months, she'll be back to how she was before she got offed.

With this new setup, though, she has Haruka and Michiru to assist with the mundane tasks.  And a team of three is ideal here - just enough to get things done efficiently, but not so much that they get in each other's way.

Also, many hospice care providers that do at-home care actually prefer having family members around to assist with the scutwork (granted, that is if they can be trusted to not neglect the patient).  In a case like Setsuna's where you have Haruka and Michiru around to help, there would be no real need for a nurse to be stationed there 24/7.  So long as one of them is present at all times and they are capable of handling Setsuna's hygiene and such, a hospice care provider would only need to send a nurse for regular visits (daily, thrice weekly, or twice weekly) to take her vitals, record them, and check for signs of any deteriorating conditions such as bed sores.

But with Hotaru around?  There would be no need.  One little zap from her, and it's all better.

REMEMBER: You are bringing the Senshi in from post-Galaxy Cauldron.  This is not the weak willed child that Chibi-Usa first met in the park in Season 3.  She is very loving and gentle, but she's got balls of tungsten carbide when its called for.  She is the one that has the wherewithal to actually end the freakin' Universe and reboot the whole thing from the start, if it is ever actually needed.  Haruka and Michiru were scared to death of Hotaru for a very good reason - that reason being that if she ever had the excuse for it, she'd rm -rf / all of existence.

Fact: Haruka and Michiru no longer have Benjamin as a reason to act out.  If you want them to cause trouble, you need a viable excuse because this is deconstruction.

Fact: Setsuna is pretty much the only Senshi that Haruka and Michiru will automatically respect because NOTHING has ever taken her out of the game.... up until now.  She could be delayed, deterred, or even deflected, but never taken out.  This is something that WILL set those two into an edgy state where they are suspicious of anyone and everyone (except Hotaru).

Fact: Hyoga is an Angel of Humankind - I'm pretty sure you said so yourself, but please correct me if I'm wrong here.  That said, she will not abide Setsuna to remain in this state and will call in for help where she knows she can get it.

Fact: with the way I had this originally set up, there is no real "cure" for what ails Setsuna except to put her into some kind of temporal isolation and wait it out.  Without that, any sort of "treatment" is limited to seeing to her bodily needs.

Fact: Washu-chan is very capable of time travel.  Though many fans of the TM OVA series consider Ai Tenchi Muyo to be it's own canon as it is not Kajishima-sensei's work, the idea that Washu sometimes even did it accidentally is fitting of her character.  She mainly chooses not to because the Galaxy Alliance makes such a huge deal out of it.

Speculation: Having a chamber for temporal isolation would not be an issue for her.  In fact, I can't see her NOT having one.  She would very likely use it for special experiments that require something to be isolated from causality for a while.

All that said, the way I would see it going down would be like this:

Hyoga, knowing how important Setsuna is, goes to check on the Outer Senshi.

Haruka, Michiru, and Hotaru would have the situation well in-hand - Hotaru sees to keeping her body replenished and refreshed through her healing power, and they all work together on other things like her hygiene.

Hyoga, concerned regardless, knows Washu-chan might have something to help or cure Setsuna.

From here, it can go one of several ways.  Haruka and Michiru, being distrustful of the angel, tell her to GTFO.  Or they say No Way Jose to the idea of involving Washu-chan.

It's possible they could be convinced, but they would likely wish to remain in the isolation chamber with her, just to make sure she's alright.

Once they know she's okay though, they would wind up relaxing some.  Which would mean you'd need something else to get them wound up again.


All of that said....

I feel that I have now done my due diligence in advising you, and I will hold my peace on this particular matter from here on out.  What you do from here is your choice, but I would also advise you check with Brent and Bob to see what they think of the matter.  Bob has a very good understanding of the SM characters, and Brent understands how people do the people thing well enough to spot something that doesn't fly in deconstruction.


There is one other thing that I feel I must ask about:

Why are we bothering to make a production out of my character suddenly disappearing from the setting?

I'm not really upset about it... but I do feel a bit uncomfortable about it.  I don't really need this sort of thing in order to soften the blow, so to speak.  I'm more worried that it would confuse the readers.

I'm actually kinda torn about it.  Having this would make for something I can use for my own work.  But at the same time, it would also mean having to take credit for this project.  Which I would prefer to only do as a sort of open secret.  It was an embarrassment for me to flip out on everyone the way I did, even if I have come to accept that I have made a horrible mistake in doing so, even if I have apologized and made reparations, and even if you guys have accepted those apologies and reparations and granted me foregiveness.

I know I'm screwed up in the head, but that doesn't make what I did water under the bridge for any reason whatsoever.  Autistic people who act like horrible human beings and use their diagnosis as some kind of shield to hide behind are fucking pieces of shit in my eyes.  Being autistic is no excuse for not bettering yourself.  Just as me being an abuse survivor is no excuse for me to not do the same.

So I suppose that's why I feel its best to not be credited for TNB.  It's my own self-imposed penance for letting my emotions get the better of me.

I know that someone would only have to dig through here to see my involvement, but once they ask, I can pull them aside and say, "Yes, that was me, but I had some real bad Hideaki Anno kinda issues back there, so if you'd not make a big deal out of it, I'd appreciate it."
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#14
(05-20-2022, 03:45 AM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: There is one other thing that I feel I must ask about:

Why are we bothering to make a production out of my character suddenly disappearing from the setting?

Because you told us to take particular characters and plotlines out of the setting, and stickied the thread. If you didn't want people to make a production out of it, you shouldn't have launched the production.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#15
(05-20-2022, 03:45 AM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: Okay, let me first say that I know you're running the show now. 

No, I'm just the mod here. When it comes to telling the stories, I have no more power than I had a week ago.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#16
(05-19-2022, 09:28 AM)robkelk Wrote:
(05-19-2022, 07:13 AM)robkelk Wrote: Firstly, the Juraians are living in Vancouver, under the care of a residence manager named Garnett Iwasaki. ... Fourthly, the Pensacola residence is being managed by Harley Waters.

If anyone wants to join the writers' circle, you could replace either of these people.

Otherwise... they need descriptions. I was careful to pick ambiguous-gender names for them so as to keep people's options open.

Another person who needs either replacing with a SI writer or a description: Greer Wakefield, currently of Lake Wobegon, Minnesota, USA. (Labster came up with the location, I asked Behind the Name to give me a random name.) This person is hosting the displacees from Remnant.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#17
Regarding Setsuna's "problem"...

Going through the original posts, I see that the original plan was to have her collapse because of her connection to the Time Gates being severed. It was BA's idea to change that and have Setsuna continue to suffer any time Malleable Causality changed something.

Either way, Setsuna was out of action because BA said so. And he's asked that we remove his plotlines from the story.

So...

(05-19-2022, 03:04 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: Other nitpick:
Why is Setsuna suddenly "curable"?

"curable"? Why does she need to be cured of something?

Setsuna being healthy makes writing both her and Hotaru much easier. Which means I'll have to retcon that retcon.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
Reply
RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#18
(05-20-2022, 06:52 AM)robkelk Wrote:
(05-20-2022, 03:45 AM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: There is one other thing that I feel I must ask about:

Why are we bothering to make a production out of my character suddenly disappearing from the setting?

Because you told us to take particular characters and plotlines out of the setting, and stickied the thread. If you didn't want people to make a production out of it, you shouldn't have launched the production.

Ah, no. Rob, there are reasons besides my vanity that you NEED TO STOP.

I know Brent already talked to you on my behalf, but from what I've heard, you'd rather hear it from me.  (BTW: You REALLY pissed me off with that bullshit.)

For one thing, if Rob was the one who ultimately guided the reshaping of the Universe, then it can be said that he is ultimately to blame for Benjamin not being involved any longer.

You do not want that on your hands.

Additionally: Even if you're not dropping my character's name, there is the implication that you are acting upon my character.  Benjamin would be one of those people in Belldandy was talking about in her letter.  He does not need to be named in order to be present.

You know it.

I know it.

Everyone else here knows it.

There is no way for you to disguise this fact.  We wouldn't even be having this conversation if it wasn't the case.

Please.  Stop.

That said....

This desire to have a Watsonian explanation for the retcon is incomprehensible to me.  It is not needed because nothing has been published as of yet.

And in all reality, Hvergelmir should never had needed to be repaired in the first place.  The premise is incredibly flimsy because, while Yggdrasil and Níðhöggr may be separate systems, it would make zero sense whatsoever if Hild permitted Níðhöggr to continue to operate like that during a state of crisis.  Especially one that has the two sides being forced to work together.  And I don't believe that even Hagal would be so audacious to go against Hild at this time - Hild would fucking kill her if she did something like that.

You need a better premise.  That's coming from me as a writer, and not me as the creator of TNB.
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#19
(05-21-2022, 10:57 AM)robkelk Wrote: Either way, Setsuna was out of action because BA said so. And he's asked that we remove his plotlines from the story.

So...

Rob.

I shouldn't have to say this, but there is a difference between a Plot Element and a Story Line.

Plot elements are, in order, Exposition, Inciting Incident, Rising Action or Progressive Complications (sometimes also called "Conflict", "Challenge", "Peak", or "Crisis Moment"), Dilemma, Climax, and Denouement.

The thing that happens to Setsuna?  Whichever you want it to be in particular?  That's an Inciting Incident.  It, in and of itself, does not determine the entire course of a story.  It is merely a part of a plot.  You can use this if you want to.  It's fine.  Just not the entire story line it was a part of.

Another example: Someone wishes for Alicia to be resurrected.  That's a Climax.  Using that on its own is fine - it just won't be Ben making the wish in this case.  More likely, it would be Nanoha, or Fate, or both.  Because along with this, you can also use a relevant Challenge: Marller offers the two a wish.  A wish for what?  Well, you'll have to get creative on that one.  That said, it would set the stage up for the Climax with wishing for Alicia's Resurrection.  But using the Denouement as well - the resurrection itself - is pushing it a bit.  You might want to come up with your own version of that process.  Maybe she has to live as a ghoul for a few months until she fully recovers?  I don't know, but I'm sure you can come up with something workable.

You can use bits and pieces.  You can't use whole story lines.

Am I being clear enough here?
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#20
(05-21-2022, 01:30 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: I know Brent already talked to you on my behalf,

Actually, he didn't. I got as far as "Rob: Ben would like me to let you know to", and stopped reading.

If you have a problem with something I said, you talk to me about it, not to somebody else. And if you choose to do so in public, I will reply in public.

This is a federal holiday weekend in Canada. Instead of enjoying it, I have been working on this retcon because the writers all agreed that it would happen promptly. And instead of being thanked by the person who requested the retcon, I'm getting grief.

I don't need this.

I'm taking the rest of the three-day weekend off, and working on what I want to work on. If that means that only Labster is working on the retcon, so be it.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#21
I have an idea, Brent says, apropos of nothing. Maybe Misaka Worst can become a butcher and sell Misaka wurst, Brent suggests subtly.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#22
I think both of yous might need to take a step back from the keyboard for a bit because this is going to go downhill fast from this point.

It's like getting the currants out of the scone and then refilling the scone. And you can't just replace the holes with chocolate because then people will know where the currants used to be. That's really hard to do. Or getting the jam out of the doughnut and have people never know there was ever anything in the doughnut - not even the hole where they used to be.

And we're only here as long as it's entertaining and amusing to be here. Nobody's getting paid. Everyone has day jobs they need to recover from over the weekend and when this makes the transition from enjoyable to 'work' the value proposition goes negative and suddenly it gets a whole lot harder to do on free time.

Anyway. I'll be over on the Fenspace --- all alone ----

--- And I spent so long typoing this I got double-ninja'd. I'm going to find the bottom of a bottle a whiskey. Laters.

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#23
I still don't get what this fight is about. Black Aeronaut is the one who told us that we would all be better off if Benjamin never existed, and Rob wrote a story along those lines to help process his feelings.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#24
(05-21-2022, 05:08 PM)Labster Wrote: I still don't get what this fight is about.  Black Aeronaut is the one who told us that we would all be better off if Benjamin never existed, and Rob wrote a story along those lines to help process his feelings.

The problem is the way Rob has it set up.  Look carefully at this part from Belldandy's letter.

(05-19-2022, 07:13 AM)robkelk Wrote: ...but there are a few people who we approached in this version of reality that we did not approach in the reality of your birth, and vice versa.

This does not remove Benjamin from the setting.  It only removes him from any active story telling.  He is still there, technically speaking.  And I don't want any sort of wiggle room on this.  I do not want anyone to think that maybe I can and should come back.  I do not want any seeds of doubt and/or hope for that left behind.  And not just because someone says so, but also because its there in the writing.  There will be no way to bring him back because he was never, in any incarnation of TNB, there in the first place.

If you think no one is gonna think that, then recall what Dartz said earlier - that it leaves a way for me back into the setting. And he's part of the project, even if not all that active. (EDIT: Dartz explicitly says, "All the data is still there." And if the data is still there? Then so is Benjamin.)

There is also the hidden message in the context of what Rob has set up.  Why would Rob Donaldson remake the universe so Benjamin wasn't an apartment manager?  In a deconstructionist setting, that cannot have been accidental on his character's part.  The only possible explanation is that Rob Donaldson did that on purpose.

There are so many negative implications for that.  And these are the sort of implications that are utterly toxic to projects like TNB.  Even if it's not Rob's intent, it implies a willingness to hurt another Author by fucking over their SI.  And besides, only the Author of a said SI has the right to do that to their character.

And there is also what I said earlier - if you're just rewriting everything else so Benjamin was never there, then why bother with this?  It's superfluous and unneeded.  The ONLY reason you would have something like this is if you are trying to send some sort of message.  The connotations of this particular message are not good at all.

And as far as many people are concerned, myself included, Death of the Author does not apply to Self Insert characters.

The only possible way to make this so that there are no negative implications or connotations is to fully acknowledge that my character exists in the setting.  Even if you don't drop his name, you have to say that this person existed, and that Rob Donaldson explicitly meant him no harm.

That is why I do not want this to be in Rob's story.  And they have little to do with what I actually want, save for my wanting my character out, and without harming the project any more than my departure has to.
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RE: [OOC][PLOT][ARC 1] Planning for Season 1 - The Retcon
#25
(05-22-2022, 04:00 PM)Black Aeronaut Wrote: There is also the hidden message in the context of what Rob has set up.  Why would Rob Donaldson remake the universe so Benjamin wasn't an apartment manager?  In a deconstructionist setting, that cannot have been accidental on his character's part.  The only possible explanation is that Rob Donaldson did that on purpose.

To quote you yourself, "That's bullshit and you know it."

How many times have I said that my SI gets things wrong? Serious question, because I've lost count.

Also, when did you start going by the name "Rajvic"?

EDIT: I have re-written this thing twice already to suit your whims - once here, and again on the wiki. If you want it re-written a third time, you'll have to pay me my standard professional writing rate.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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