All The Tropes Wiki Project, Part XXXII

[robkelk]

Just a heads up -- TVT has changed its anti-ad-blocker tactics again. Like they did a few years ago, they're now refusing to serve any content whatsoever when an ad-blocker is detected.

Unusually, it doesn't appear that this particular asshattery can be laid at the feet of TVT's administration -- it appears to be imposed from above by Chris and Drew or whatever holding company they own -- they also own Snopes.com, which is also currently displaying a notice that is virtually identical save for color and styling if you dare go there with a blocker active.

I'm not having any trouble at either TVTropes or Snopes, and I always run uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger.

[Bob Schroeck]

Might be something else I have installed, then.

[MilkmanConspiracy]

I use an ad blocker as part of my overall security practice. I think I've set on checking pending submissions for plagiarism from a public terminal, and cross reference pending submissions on my phone. Holiday hours have been tricky at the library, but I’m there pretty often to pick up video games and Blu-rays.

[Bob Schroeck]

And I was just thinking yesterday how long it's been since Miraheze last threw a 502/503 storm and how lucky we've been.

Clearly I jinxed us, because Miraheze is thoroughly borked starting about ten minutes ago. ATT, KanriKyara, Meta -- "Something went wrong... 502 Bad Gateway".

[robkelk]

You didn't jinx us, Bob. That's been happening every day or two for the entire calendar year.

[Bob Schroeck]

How'd I miss that? Because normally I'm one of the first to bitch about it.

Anyway, less than a half-hour later it looks like everything's back.

[robkelk]

So, Flow has been depreciated and replaced with DiscussionTools.

Assuming that we don't want to run unsupported software on our wiki, how do we migrate to DiscussionTools?

[Labster]

So, Flow has been depreciated and replaced with DiscussionTools.

Assuming that we don't want to run unsupported software on our wiki, how do we migrate to DiscussionTools?

De facto, Flow has been deprecated for years now, given that everyone who actually understood how the software works left Wikimedia.  It's had only the barest minimum of maintenance work done for quite a long time.  Last I checked, Pppery wrote a migration script that only works on Wikimedia wikis.  I'll loop back around and check what's happening on the Miraheze end -- he does own some wikis on Miraheze, so we can (already did?) talk him into porting it over to our system.

Also, de facto, Miraheze is supporting Flow as long as we continue to run it.  About as well as WMF does -- basically make sure it runs, that's it.

Enabling DiscussionTools is the easy part -- basically turn it on and configure namespaces.  On pages where it needs it, edit the wiki to add some disccusion tools buttons on it.

This is also part of the effort I was making to improve WikiForum earlier this year, to get it to a point where Miraheze would be willing to turn it back on.  Because DiscussionTools is basically Talk Pages++, while WikiForum is forum-like.  Flow was in-between, and essentially did neither role well.  Currently someone is improving WikiForum (I think WikiTeq), I need to check on those patches.  And then we may want to convert some Flow threads to WikiForum format rather than talk pages. Which I would have to write.  So think about where you want different types of Flow boards to end up.

[robkelk]

Do we have this trope already?

Alice says something that isn't right. Bob corrects her, but the correction isn't right, either.

Example:
"Everybody knows the Nobel Prizes are awarded by Denmark."
"No, actually they're awarded by Finland."

[Bob Schroeck]

Sounds like a variation on Common Knowledge, or something in its orbit.

[Bob Schroeck]

Well, because I had to wait on something at work, I had the first opportunity to work on the Moderation Queue for more than a couple minutes in longer than I care to think about.

As a result, the Mod Queue is empty.

Yay.

[robkelk]

Thank you, Bob.

[Bob Schroeck]

We seem to have gained a user who has issues with the wiki interface:

   

[Labster]

Just in case you haven't seen it, a new Miraheze annoucement.  What this means is that from now on, you will not be logging on directly on allthetropes.org, but the login button will push you to auth.miraheze.org.  But this should make things much, much better in keeping you logged in.  Apparently web browsers had to implement workarounds to accommodate SUL2 at Wikipedia, and its old idea of cross-domain validation via multiple layers of redirects.

I wanted to share an important announcement about a major upcoming change to our login system. We are migrating to SUL3, the most recent version of MediaWiki's Central Authentication system. Once this change is live, all authentication related actions such as logging in, resetting passwords, and managing 2FA will take place on a new domain: auth.miraheze.org.

This migration does come with a few side effects that we want everyone to be aware of. All users who currently use WebAuthn will find it disabled after the migration and will need to set it up again. We previously emailed affected users about this a few weeks ago, so this is your reminder that this is expected behavior.

In addition, every user on the platform will be logged out when SUL3 goes live. This is expected and intentional. To avoid issues logging back in, please ensure the following before January 30:

• Verify that your account has a valid and accessible email address attached
  • Visit Special:ChangeEmail
    

Confirm or update your email address and ensure it is confirmed

• Make sure you have access to your 2FA methods or backup codes
  • Visit Special:AccountSecurity
    

Verify your current 2FA setup and locate your recovery codes

• Ensure you know your current password
  • Reset your password via SpecialasswordReset now if you are unsure
    

After the migration, you will need to log in again manually. If you use a password manager or browser autofill, you may need to update or re-save your stored credentials since authentication will now occur on a new domain. Being prepared for this will help prevent login issues after the change.

On the bright side, SUL3 is designed to resolve many long standing CentralAuth issues and improves WebAuthn behavior. You will no longer need to log in from the specific wiki where WebAuthn was originally set up, and random logouts should be greatly reduced. While there is still a possibility that some issues may occur, they should be far less frequent than under the current system. 

These changes will take effect on or shortly after January 30, 2026. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

[robkelk]

Just in case you haven't seen it, a new Miraheze annoucement.

I only look at the Meta homepage, the Meta Community Portal, and the Tech:Noticeboard (which hasn't been updated in over a year and a half, BTW), so, no, I didn't see this notice. Where is it, please? I need to share it with the users of the freebie wiki, and we should share it with the Tropers.

[robkelk]

I've updated the sitenotice to let the tropers know they need to do this. (I'e also updated the freebie wiki's sitenotice, and the KanriKyara wiki sitenotice [because not everybody there is an ATT admin].)

[robkelk]

The question has arisen on the freebie wiki: Will we be required to use 2FA?

[Bob Schroeck]

I was wondering the same.

[Labster]

2FA will not be required.

[Labster]

SUL3 is deployed. Login is working better. If you try to login from allthetropes.org, however, the styling is currently missing. This is because it tries to load CSS from All The Tropes on top of the login page, and the content security policy doesn't like that. Logins seem to persist really well across top-level domains, however, which is good news for those of us using more than one wiki.

[robkelk]

Interesting... I logged in through the freebie wiki with no concerns - Firefox was even smart enough to apply my old password to the new server.

I saw a not-logged-in page at kanrikyara, but it reloaded without any intervention from me and I was once again logged in.

I had to click on the login link on All The Tropes, but that was enough to get the wiki to recognize my login; I didn't have to login again.

[Bob Schroeck]

I had to log in for ATT, but once I did I was also logged in for KanriKyara.

[robkelk]

Regarding this request and action

Where's the evidence? Flow doesn't allow undeletes (at least, not in any way I know about).

And the breakneck speed between somebody who has no edit history on the wiki asking somebody else be banned, and the banning itself, is reminiscent of Fast Eddie.

I can't force GethN7 to follow the rules that we've agreed upon, but I can do something about the other part of this. I am now calling for a vote:
In that it now is actively getting in the way of our administrative procedures, stop using Flow immediately.

[GethN7]

Regarding this request and action

Where's the evidence? Flow doesn't allow undeletes (at least, not in any way I know about).

And the breakneck speed between somebody who has no edit history on the wiki asking somebody else be banned, and the banning itself, is reminiscent of Fast Eddie.

I can't force GethN7 to follow the rules that we've agreed upon, but I can do something about the other part of this. I am now calling for a vote:
In that it now is actively getting in the way of our administrative procedures, stop using Flow immediately.

You can calm down Rob.

One, Flow DOES allow undeleting edits. You click the history link on the page where the item was deleted, and it leads you to a place to see and undelete the item in question.

Second, the deleted items (currently undeleted, so you can see for yourself and take what action you deem necessary) matched the "krypto the runt" spammer's MO 100%. Given their past history, I decided to act promptly, which included deleting their spam in order to deprive them of any attention, a stance we have taken before.

Finally, the edits were all the same nonsensical vandalism by the aforementioned problem child, whom we had to ban multiple times for malicious vandalism. I acted quickly to deny them the benefit of their actions and to avoid clogging up the wiki with their childish spam.

[robkelk]

... I am now calling for a vote:
In that it now is actively getting in the way of our administrative procedures, stop using Flow immediately.

Withdrawing this motion as redundant.

Tech:Noticeboard/Removing extensions for the MediaWiki 1.45 upgrade

Miraheze's Technology Team is planning to remove eight extensions, including Flow, for the MediaWiki 1.45 upgrade.

The Wikimedia Foundation is on its way to undeploy Flow (StructuredDiscussions), after which the extension will be completely unmaintained. It has already caused issues with past MediaWiki upgrades on Miraheze, so we should remove it sooner than later.

The technology team plans to use an automated script to delete all Flow discussion pages and replace them with wikitext equivalents. There are two possible paths:

1. The replaced page only has a single revision and the edit history would be lost. The sequence of events can only be inferred from the timestamps on signatures.
   
2. The replaced page has the full page history reconstructed from past Flow discussions. This option presents more technical challenges but seems to be doable (albeit harder than the previous option).
   The technology team is still evaluating the feasibility of the second option. If you'd like to preserve the full edit history, please say so in the discussion section below.