Nine Years Ago...

[DocMui]

Greetings, all! I'm taking a small break from National Novel Writer's Month to write something down that's been bugging me for a while.

Nine years ago, I was at Anime Weekend Atlanta 6. I met some old friends and new friends, mostly in the vicinity of the Artists' Alley. As is my wont, I
perused the various styles of the artists there for any potential future commissions.

I met William H. Jordan, aka our very own Logan Darklighter, at that gathering. His artwork appealed to those who enjoyed "old-school" style a la
the 1980's-early 1990's.

So, I commissioned something for $20, a black and white ink drawing.

I have since received three drafts (the last one nearly-finished) but nothing from him that said "it's finished" or "I can't do it,
here's your $20 back."

Now, I understand that there have been setbacks in his life. At one time, his art materials were stolen. There was a brief resurgence in his art when,
well...just click here for the thread. It was during tragic
circumstances.

In order to inspire him, I have commissioned this picture with his character, Lora Doubet. I have hashed out an explanation how Lora,
a cyborg, could be a Peacebringer (something that was never credited to me).

Oh, and did I mention that polite inquiries have been summarily ignored? This wouldn't bug me so much if the guy didn't give me his word that he'd finish it up.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions from there.

--Doc

[Epsilon]

Dude, bad form. This isn't the forum to air your personal greivances against one of the members.

-----------------

Epsilon

[Sofaspud]

Maybe I'm just not holding my head at the right angle, but to me this read as one friend to another, hey buddy I'm talking ta YOU, good-natured
jabbing.

Like you'd tell your buddy next door who borrowed your lawnmower last year, "Hey, either mow it for me or give it back, but the grass is getting long,
get me?"

Before jumping on Doc, let's hear how Logan takes it?

--sofaspud
--"Listening to your kid is the audio equivalent of a Salvador Dali painting, Spud." --OpMegs

[Bluemage]

I don't know anybody here that well- neither yourself nor Logan- so I won't judge any part of this.

I will only say that it's good to see you 'round these parts, you should stop by more often, and I hope you get your art.

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[Bob Schroeck]

I'm of the opinion that it's somewhere between Epsilon and Spud's perceptions, but I too won't judge -- nor make/take forum-ownerly actions
about it. I will, however, hope fervently that Logan sees this thread and acts as best he can upon it.

And I second Bluemage's comment that you should come a-visiting these parts more often, Doc.
-- Bob
---------
Then the horns kicked in...
...and my shoes began to squeak.

[robkelk]

And I second Bluemage's comment that you should come a-visiting these parts more often, Doc.

And I third the suggestion. I even promise I won't even mention the Anime Detective. (Except to mention a band called the Skydiggers, whose lead singer is named Andy Maize. Possibilities for confusion are obvious...)
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Rev Dark]

Hey, what's up Doc?

It is best to walk away. After nine years your quest for the image is more Quixotic than practical; and as much as I adore tilting windmills; there is a time
to say 'This is a little like waiting for Duke Nuke'Em Forever' and move on.

Yes; there is a principle involved and $20.00 - four times as much as Ren and Stimpy regularly debase themselves for in best animated rent-boy fashion; but you
have three sketches in hand; which, while they do not meet the original contract criteria; are material.

Art, especially commercial art, is more about the perspiration than the inspiration (though the second is required, sometimes you just have to push on on
perspiration alone); something I was thinking about while forgoing sleep to work on a comic that I promised to someone. You accept the money (or exchange of
services); you provide the product. If a vendor consistently fails to meet an obligation, you find a more responsive, responsible, vendor; and if the figure
is dear enough, seek compensation; or at the very least apology.

Cheers,

Shayne

[jpub]

I'm with Epsilon. Seriously dude, bad form, and grow the hell up. It's only 20 bucks. TWENTY FREAKING DOLLARS.

Ye gods.

[Logan Darklighter]

No, Doc has the right of it. I never intended for things to go this badly for this long. I have always intended to finish that drawing.

As for lack of correspondence for at least the last 5-6 months, I think I know what happened. I would've seen his messages if I had actually logged in to
gmail, but I have it auto-forwarded to my Thunderbird client on my machine. I had a new computer since about July, and the email program that installed
didn't have the "training" for the spam filter that the one on the other machine did. Doc emailed me infrequently at best. And at least the last
couple of emails he sent me seem to have gotten snagged in the new spam filter. (I also noticed JUST today the message counter at the top of yuku. I almost
never get anything through that and I'm not used to looking up there.)

(shakes head) I can't believe it's been so long. And that ONE DRAWING has been my personal demon. I keep wanting to do something "special"
with it to give it some kind of flourish that would make up for not having delivered for so long. But... I'm just not that good of an artist.

Not to make excuses here. I just want to try and let you into my head a bit. I have suffered a crashing lack of confidence in myself over the past few years in
terms of my art. I know it sounds utterly insane and stupid, but I've actually been AFRAID to draw. When I look at what I'm doing, I keep thinking
things like "this is just utter CRAP... what am I even DOING with this?" The sad part is, once I actually get an art pad and just do idle sketches,
the actual act of doing so is kinda relaxing in a way. It's just getting started and keeping up with it till I have something finished that's a
problem.

And always - ALWAYS in the back of my head, there's this little voice saying "why are you doing ANY drawing at all other than finishing THAT
ONE?"

Frankly, I want to exorcise this demon and get back to drawing because its fun. And never take another commission again unless it's something easy like
just a portrait.

And I want to be as much of a gentleman about it as I can considering it IS my fuck-up after all.

I'm considering some options:

1) Buckle down and finish the damn thing. It's 80% complete as it is. The faces are DONE. the poses are DONE. Mainly it's the details like how the
bodies intersect with the water and the background that have always frustrated me. I'm thinking my friend Lee Madison (who does the badge and t-shirt
artwork for A-Kon) might be able to help me. I'm calling him up right now, In fact. He has a way with backgrounds. (If you've been to A-Kon, then you
should know this already).

2) Do the same as above, but send Doc 20 bucks along anyway by way of an apology.

3) Send double the amount by way of an apology and consider the matter over with regardless

What do you think? I think #2 sounds right to me.

[robkelk]

What do you think?

That's something for the two of you to work out... but I think any of your options would be more than reasonable.
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[DocMui]

Okay, now we're talking here. I do have some things to say:

1. This may have been bad form, but I tried to pursue diplomatic means of settling this privately. Posting on the board seemed the only other option. Did it
get William's attention? Yes. Am I going to do this again? Hell, no. I don't like calling people out like that. This is why, in general, I don't
even grumble that much on my Livejournal. It wasn't the money, it was that fact that William gave his word. Maybe it's me, but once I give my word, I
do everything I can to keep it. Perhaps it's unrealistic to expect the same of others, but that's just me.

2. I'll try to visit whenever I can. Life has been complicated, especially after a recent trip to Hong Kong and China. I'm not at liberty to reveal the
specifics, but let's just say that change is imminent. However, I do have stories in various states of completion--which I will mention in the appropriate
forum. I will say that I have a bit of a similar issue with my fiction--I tend to edit as I write instead of getting it in draft form. Participating in
National Novel Writer's Month, where you must churn out 50,000 words in a month, is quite liberating. As it turns out, my stream of thought text isn't
that bad either.

3. William, I must respectfully disagree with your opinion that you are not a good artist. You are far better than those would-be artists who have grown up
with the likes of Rob Liefield and were weaned upon the hyperkinetic body-crippling poses. Your style is both evocative of and inspired by Kia Asamiya and
Leiji Matsumoto, but you've put in your own touch. To synthesize something from those two disparate art styles takes something. Stop crippling yourself.
Stop micro-managing every stroke of the pencil. Let it flow and let it be born, and then you can correct what doesn't work--not before. This is, of course,
if you're doing the traditional pencil and ink job, but I'm sure that a certain other simliarities can be made for the process.

As for the options, I'll go for # 1. The fact that you've apologized here and now is enough. Besides, you need to save every dollar you can.

-Doc

[Bluemage]

You know, this may be the most amicably settled disagreement I've seen online in the last decade

---

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate. Get yours.

I've been writing a bit.

[Herr Bad Moon]

Bluemage wrote:

---

You know, this may be the most amicably settled disagreement I've seen online in the last decade

I agree. I call shennanigans!
---
Jon
"And that must have caused my dad's brain to break in half, replaced by a purely mechanical engine of revenge!"

[robkelk]

Meh. Any agreement is a good agreement, as long as neither party feels slighted.

Logan, let me know when you've finished DocMui's piece; anybody who's style can get that good a review from someone who's been waiting this
long is good enough for a few Fenspace pieces I'd like to commission...
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Star Ranger4]

Hi Doc... so your going for 50k words in a month, eh? Good Luck!

I suppose its too much to hope that any of those words are about the further exploits of UF you??? Or maybe the Anime Detective?

(that was you, wasn't it?)
Hear that thunder rolling till it seems to split the sky?
That's every ship in Grayson's Navy taking up the cry-
NO QUARTER!!!
-- "No Quarter", by Echo's Children

[DocMui]

I'll be working on Anime Detective after I get this novel done. I'll be pretty toasty, though.

As for UF stuff, let's just say that it's not likely to happen anytime soon. I can, however, send you what I had in the queue. Just PM me.

--Doc

[Logan Darklighter]

Just thought I'd mention. At our regular gaming session this weekend, I handed the drawing over to Lee and explained what I needed. He said he'd help
out with the bamboo wall and the rocks and such and give me a tip for dealing with the water on my own (he was leery of touching that part himself since the
figures were already in place and he didn't want to mess it up. He and I tend to do things RADICALLY different when it comes to actual human figures.)

Me and Lee have actually worked together before BTW on a couple of drawings. Notably the Project Akon 5 T-Shirt Design. (One of the few Project Akon t-shirts
that there ARE NO MORE OF. Even I don't have one!) Guy Brownlee did the figurework on that one, I detailed the car, and Lee did the inking and the Logo
design.

[DocMui]

Excellent. :-)

(Sorry I'm not more verbose. Gotta crank out 1667 words a day for my novel.)

--Doc

[Logan Darklighter]

OK, here's an update. I handed off the drawing to Lee about a month ago. The expectation was that he'd have it back to me at the next game session. (We
hold the game every two weeks) Well a couple of people got sick and the next game session was canceled, then Thanksgiving etc. And Lee was out of town. Anyway,
I finally got the drawing back a few days ago, and Lee had done a fine job. I got a scan of it here. Plus some other recent things I've been doodling on.

Unfortunately, this scan cut off part of the right side, and I didn't notice it until later on (scan was done over at a friends house, as my scanner died.)
But it still shows the progress made with Lee's help on the backdrop. Still need to do the water effects and all, but this is just about done.



Someone expressed interest in seeing other examples of my work. At first I wasn't going to post, but then I thought about it and figured I'd get some
constructive criticism. And to be thoroughly honest, hopefully a bit of ego-boost as well. I'm realizing that I've been stewing without any of that for
a long time. And kudos and thoughtful advice are better than cash in motivating me. I'm perfectly aware that this stuff isn't anywhere NEAR as good as
some of the more recent fan arts I've seen elsewhere but hey - anything to pop me out of my rut.

This a quick 10 minute sketch of Lily the Diamond from City of Heroes. This is just a preliminary and the proportions are a bit off. I can nail it down with a
second, more careful take.



This is sketch of my World of Warcraft Character Avrel Naria that I did at work while taking calls. I didn't have any reference at all, just doing this
from memory, knowing I'd gotten it wrong, and fully intending to do a second pass...



Which I did later after actually using a screenshot of her as reference.



A character from Stellar Horizons, a private, home-brew system that's coming to a game shop near you "real soon now". It's classic
space opera (and the game I mentioned above that I play with Lee Madison and some others.) Not quite done, but almost. You can see the rough block-outs of a
spaceship scene behind her. I was originally going to draw all that on the same page. But having mastered a bit of photoshop layering, I realize that I can do
that stuff as a separate element and fold it in for a finished piece.



A quick sketch of Quarian, an Elf character for a friend in a recent D&D game.



I JUST started on this! I attempted a first take on a pose of Cyberman 8, but it didn't work. It was all wrong and looked ridiculously stiff. This is
working out much better. I'll be filling in more details with reference to an in-game screenshot. The proportions are just a touch off, but I can modify
it. I do like the helmet and face though. That's actually surprisingly difficult to get JUST RIGHT. The shape of the helmet and head has to be damn near
perfect, unlike the usual fudging around that I do with hair hiding odd proportions. I'm thinking of actually filling this out and coloring it with a
screenshot of the City behind him. What do you think?



Though I've actually been told recently that my art actually is one of the few that person has seen that actually works BETTER in black and white than in
color. Which is something of a relief to hear, since coloring is a pain in the ass to do!

[ECSNorway]

Those are ... pretty darn good, Logan. Nice.
--
Sucrose Octanitrate.
Proof positive that with sufficient motivation, you can make anything explode.

[DocMui]

Well done, Logan, and I'm not saying that out of relief. You sometimes sell yourself short when it comes to your artistic ability.

Humility is good. Crippling self-doubt isn't.

Keep up the excellent work.

--Doc