"It's always too soon to talk about gun control"

[hazard]

Uh, yeah, you took that entirely in the wrong direction there.  The reason why their murder spree rates are so much lower is because suicide has this weird cultural acceptance over there.  Combined with the conformity and uniformity that is the cultural norm for Japan, people are far more likely to just commit suicide than go on a killing spree.

Let me reflect that; the US has such high murder rates for a first world country because killing people has this weird cultural acceptance over there. No seriously; the US is weirdly alright with killing people who do not fit the cultural norm of the USA even though the USA greatly values individuality. More on this later.

And the few that do?  Rental trucks and box cutters pretty much all around.  Though there have been a few real outliers where an actual sword was used.

And the fact that rental trucks are huge and unsubtle and box cutters are melee only weapons with limited penetration greatly limits the potential danger. Doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, far from it, but in comparison to an easily hidden weapon with an accurate range in excess of 15 meters and a deadly range of hundreds while being able to go through most non-structural obstructions they are likely to face renders guns far more dangerous. And that just describes a pistol.

What makes you think I haven't been!?  I'm only one person, but in order to make real change happen, we have to get the politicians to actually be on our side, and for the right reasons!

Then organize.

And no, you don't need the politicians to actually be on your side for the right reasons. You just need them to be on your side so they get elected and then hold them to their election promises. Because to a great many politicians 'getting elected' is all they need for a reason, and not getting reelected because they reneged on their election promises is not something they are willing to face.

Right... Talk to me again when you've managed to put that dreaded socialism thing to work in the US.

Seriously, the USA just after the Second World War was far from perfect, but it was amazingly socialistic in comparison to the current US.

[quote='Black Aeronaut' pid='167201' dateline='1509938373']Wow.  You really don't get it.

Quite possible. Would hardly be the first time.

A man that makes a plan like this would not let some so little as a firearms ban stop him.  He would have thought of a different method.  STOP ACTING LIKE GUN BANS ARE SOME MAGICAL CURE-ALL!!!  Because for what you want?  Gun bans most emphatically will not work.

For a man like this?

A gun ban probably would not have worked, you'd need a shrink at minimum. But I'm not looking at things in a vacuum; for most mass shootings gun access restrictions probably would have worked. Either because of better screening of applicants or due to better mandatory gun education imposing a mental block on the notion of shooting a person or because of better and more secure gun storage protocols. I'm not expecting such efforts to remove all mass shootings, but I am expecting them to decrease the incidence of them.

Honestly, Hazard, I don't understand your mental process here.  To expand on what Morganite is saying here: Do you honestly think that EVERYONE is just gonna hand their guns over with a smile on their face?  You really don't know what it's like out here.  Morganite has the right of it - it will be like the Prohibition all over again... only far, far worse because unlike turning alcohol into a controlled substance, you're going to see a sudden spike in violence across the nation as people VIOLENTLY resist having their guns taken away.  And you can't call out the National Guard for a mere 'police action'.  Besides, I think they'll be too busy to be called up because most of them are gonna be fighting to keep their own guns.

... The Prohibition didn't make alcohol a controlled substance. Current laws on alcohol make it a controlled substance, the Prohibition made it a forbidden substance. There's a difference.

And no, I don't expect everyone to just hand over their guns; I'm expecting that the actual result of such efforts would be a slow encroachment on the idea that having a gun is a right and that it is instead something that becomes a privilege showing a great degree of trust by society (as facilitated by the government) in the good sense and judgement of one authorized to carry a gun. Anything faster than that may cause a civil war to follow.

That said, greatly restricting or even forbidding access to guns that are not pistols (for personal defense) or single shot hunting guns seems plausible to me. I mean, that is what you have those guns for, right? It's not as if you need a 30 shot (semi)automatic long gun to hunt deer, boar, bear or wolves, right?

Oi.  You want a common cause for gun violence?  How about the person holding the damn gun?  Or, more specifically, the mind of the person holding the gun.

Fix the mental health system.  Start encouraging mental health checkups.

Fix the economy so people can actually pay their bills, save a bit of money, not rely on government assistance, and actually live a life where they can pursue hobbies.  This helps with mental health, believe it or not.

Don't even bother with gun regulation.  YOU WOULD ONLY BE TREATING A SYMPTOM.  Fix these other far more important issues and you'll see a lot of gun violence and gun suicides simply go away.

I think I'm about to say something very unpopular.

Fixing the mental health system is not going to majorly decrease the incidence of mass shootings. It'll help plenty with suicides, as will fixing the economy, but fixing the economy is also not something that will majorly decrease the incidence of mass shootings.

To put it quite simply, it appears to me that most of the perpetrators of those shootings may be crazy, but they aren't insane. Not clinically and not criminally. Rather, it's a result of how the US as a culture handles people who do not fit the culture. You are right that the mind of the person holding the gun is critical, but minds are shaped by culture. And US culture? US culture is bad at handling things outside the accepted bounds.

I mean, the normal, accepted and dominant culture in the US posits the following rules; you are white (Anglo-Saxon heritage preferred), Christian (Protestant preferred), heterosexual, married with children or looking for a partner for the same, physically active, and not poor. For men, it's accepted and expected that you will occasionally have sex with someone other than your spouse (if married) or girlfriend (if not), for women you are expected to have 1 sexual partner, ever, unless said partner dies before you do.

If you are not white? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are not Christian? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are not heterosexual? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are not married (and of sufficient age you should be)? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you have no children (and are married and should have them by now)? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you have children but are not married? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are not fit of body? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you do not prefer to perform physical work? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are poor? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are a man who has no extra marital liaisons and has not established himself as dearly in love with his spouse? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.
If you are a woman who has extra marital liaisons or a history of many boyfriends? You will be scorned, insulted and degraded.

The extent of scorn, insults and other hurts visited upon you will vary with how badly and in what manner you do not fit the accepted, dominant culture of the US.

Outside of school shootings, many of which appear to be revenge killings, mass shootings appear to largely target marginalized minority groups. Be they abortion clinics (woman, pregnant out of wedlock and not wanting children is the stereotype), homosexual bars (male homosexuals are more likely targeted than female in this manner) or community centres (religious facilities usually). The motivation largely boils down to hatred.

You know, the thing that tends to come with scorning, insulting and degrading other groups either as motivating factor or as a result of it.