"It's always too soon to talk about gun control"

[Black Aeronaut]

Hazard, what planet are you from?

Earth. Looking at the rest of your post, clearly a better corner of it than yours.

What can I say, the Netherlands may have their problems but we're pretty awesome generally speaking.

Which is part of the issue here.  Think about how Europe has developed over the last 200 years.  Not very long ago (at least, not long in the grand scheme of things), most of your countries were being ruled through monarchies - many of which had pretty clear ideas about who gets to use swords and armor.  Mainly, that was people they felt they could trust to not do something like stage a revolt.

Here?  We had our revolt and only by luck did we get through it with our independence from the British Empire.  And that makes for a VERY different perspective for the general populace.

First of all, do you honestly expect me to take time away from my job to organize something like that?  Are you fucking stoned?  That bullshit is for people that either have too much time on their hands, or they got nothing left to lose.  I'm working 10 to 12 hour overnight shifts and I'm just barely digging myself out of a hole.  I don't even make $25k/year here, and that's busting my ass working anywhere between 50 to 60 hours a week!

<snip>

[The answer to that is, of course, a resounding no. Because the USA is the nation of high ideals and not following up on those high ideals.]

Hey, you said it, not me.  

But on that note... yeah, that's part of the issues with our socioeconomic system I'd like to see fixed.  And the Conservatives that are in charge right now don't want to fix that because they will quickly find themselves being outed by the lower-class

As for why most Americans won't hand over their assault rifles or everything else?  You've got to be kidding, right?

The original intent of the 2nd Amendment was so that everyone could defend themselves from their own government if needs be.  What you are asking of us is to remove and essential final check on the power of the Federal Government.  Don't argue about the semantics of "What are a bunch of jon does going to do against trained soldiers?"  That's not how it works.  Ideally the Military is supposed to recognize where the Federal government has gone too far and either stand aside or even assist in a revolution.

That is not going to be given up.  Not ever.

You clearly have not carefully read the Second Amendment. It doesn't speak of the people being able to protect themselves, it speaks of a well regulated militia protecting a State. In fact, let me quote the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States in full:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

<snip>

You're conveniently ignoring one important bit there.

"...the right of the people..."

That's a very important word there, "people".  In fact, it's right in the preamble of our Constitution - the very first words in the very first line.  From the word go we decided on a system of government that derives its power from its people and not any one person or group of persons.  Everyone that is a citizen of this nation has the right to say, "No, this is not what I wanted."

And the ultimate expression of that sentiment is by way of revolution.  The Second Amendment guarantees that so we have the option to overthrow our government by force of arms should it fail to represent and serve We, The People.

As for your belief that a better mental health system won't severely curb this issue?  I think you're wrong.

No matter what their beliefs, no matter how they rationalized their actions, every one of these people were completely raving mad.  Make mental health a priority and you will catch the vast majority of these people before they can ever do any lasting harm.

The problem is that, well, I'll let you continue.

ETA:

Rob, what that study fails to show is HOW that money is spent on mental health.  I'm pretty sure if you compared the system in use here in the USA to that of other countries, you'd probably see a very different picture.

Your mental health culture is a mess. Your mental health culture is structurally a mess, and it's supported in remaining this mess by the USA's own cultural attitudes. The shooters may have been crazy, the shooters may have been insane. But by your own laws they cannot be prevented from gaining access to guns, and knowing the USA those people who would be most at risk of becoming mass shooters would be ignored by whatever mental health system would be developed in favour of politically more advantageous mental health issues.

I never said that it wasn't a mess.  That was my point entirely.  That is what we need to fix.

Now, I just had the epiphany that you're not seeing this issue the way I'm seeing it.

You're seeing it as something that REQUIRES police action on a broad scope.

Now, I don't really blame you for that sentiment.  It's a very knee-jerk thing: "Make it illegal so it won't happen again!"  It's laudable...

...But it's also laughable.

I'm not saying that we should not try to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally deranged.  I apologize if I was not clear on that matter before, but you were arguing so vehemently for blanket bans that it got lost in the signal noise.

The thing is that this is what a overhauled, reformed, and digitized background check system is supposed to be for.  A state-operated mental health system would have the ability to red-flag a person in a database that has mental issues that renders them a danger to themselves and/or other, and should not be permitted access to firearms (or any weapons for that matter).

I won't touch on confiscation of already owned firearms as that's a whole other ball of wax, but the idea here is that this is supposed to keep people who should not have guns from buying them.

But that's the thing.  You can't just go all HULK SMASH on this.  It is a far more complex and delicate issue than you think it is.  The regulation needs to be light-touch, laser-precise, and backed up by a competent system.

As for the system itself?

Fix mental health - preferably by enacting some form of single payer/universal health care system so it can be better regulated.  And really, I suspect that by rolling all healthcare subsidiaries (ie: all of Medicare and Medicaid) will greatly streamline the system and make it more cost-effective.

Really, we just need to have it so any damn fool can walk into a hospital and get treatment for anything, and walk out again without ever worrying about any sort of medical bills.  Your citizenship is your health care plan.

Enact a Federal $15/hr minimum wage so people can have peace of mind without practically killing themselves.

Toughen up laws on regulating corporations so they can't run roughshod over everyone.

I got other wild ideas that might help as well.  Like in exchange for the higher minimum wage, all but eliminate business taxes and relabel it as a 'use of infrastructure' tax.  In fact, have that revenue earmarked for the infrastructure and the management of those revenues made completely transparent so companies don't feel jilted about it.  This will encourage the 'trickle down economics' that conservatives love to go on about, and hopefully create more jobs to employ more Americans and bring them out of poverty.

The loss in revenues from this will be more than made up for by income tax revenues from a resurging middle class.

Oh, and how about ensuring Net Neutrality once and for all?  That way businesses don't need to worry about having their networks strangled by overbearing ISP's.  Yet another reason for businesses, particularly IT businesses, to do their business in America.

Reform privacy laws - no more random tracking.  Surveillance should require a court order, and certainly not from some kangaroo court that is not accountable to anyone.  And also, if the Federal Government can't spy on its citizens, then neither should corporations.  A knock-on effect of this is that it will lower people's anxiety levels and serve the mental health aspect for the better.

Another item for mental health: mandatory maternity/paternity leave for everyone, subsidized by the government to take the edge off.  This will reduce stress and anxiety as well as a lot of cases of postpartum depression.

All of this instead of blanket-banning firearms, which will only enrage a lot of people out there as they'll  feel they're being punished for the actions of a few.

Treat the disease.  Not the symptoms.  If you treat only the symptoms, chances are you'll have a dead patient on your hands before long.