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Home Construction, Was: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
Home Construction, Was: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#1
Hi fellow snowflakes,

I just want to let you know that we are having our nationwide protest to defend Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and protest the firing of Attorney General Jeff Sessions.  Because in 2018, protesting the removal of a guy who never met a Jim Crow law he didn't like is something liberals do now.  This is because of the appointment of Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker, who has already written that investigating any of the President's finances is out of bounds.

So anyway, show up at 5PM tomorrow: Find an event near you.

Been working on this protest for over a year now, and it's finally go time.  Unfortunately. I would have preferred not to have it.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#2
I’ll do my best to be there.
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“When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action. When you desire a consequence you had damned well better take the action that would create it.”
― Lois McMaster Bujold, Memory
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What zombie movies got wrong about the actual apocalypse, part 1,487: they omitted scenes of people on the street demanding the right to be eaten by zombies.
—Kelly Davio, Twitter, 4/19/2020
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#3
I guess the official start time is 5PM, but different local organizers might choose different times, so be sure to check the website.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#4
Unfortunately for AAG Whittaker he has no authority over Congress, the House shall be controlled by Democrats, and Trump and his family have done enough financial shenanigans as President that investigations based on the emoluments clause and campaign finance law from this body are well within their rights to pursue.

Still, if the AAG is smart he'll take one look at that and keep the Mueller investigation under Rod Rosenstein instead of taking it for himself.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#5
(11-08-2018, 12:32 AM)hazard Wrote: Still, if the AAG is smart he'll take one look at that and keep the Mueller investigation under Rod Rosenstein instead of taking it for himself.

IF.
****************************************************************
“When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action. When you desire a consequence you had damned well better take the action that would create it.”
― Lois McMaster Bujold, Memory
——————————————————-
What zombie movies got wrong about the actual apocalypse, part 1,487: they omitted scenes of people on the street demanding the right to be eaten by zombies.
—Kelly Davio, Twitter, 4/19/2020
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#6
Hazard's idea sounds reasonable, but it lacks a certain... causality.  Trump has said that he wouldn't have appointed Sessions if he had known he would recuse himself in the Russia case.  And then he kept insulting Sessions.  And then he fired him right after the election.  So I'm not sure that a rational person interested in keeping his job would recuse himself.

Also if you're interested in whether the acting AG is smart, look up his cable news appearances.

And we're in the weird circumstance that a protest we planned yesterday is now competing with vigils for people shot in a mass shooting last night.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#7
Keep youserselves safe, and Good Luck.

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#8
I was not and am not expecting Whittaker to do the smart thing. Trump would've checked if he would recuse himself, and not appointed him if he said yes to that question.


And Labster? Let me be very callous for a moment; I don't think the Republican party minds overmuch that your protest is likely to see less news exposure than it would've, had there not been a mass shooting. I do not believe that the party would've arranged one, I'm no conspiracy theorist, but exploiting it is something they would do in a heartbeat.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#9
Dartz Wrote:Keep youserselves safe, and Good Luck.
I was going to say hey, not to worry, we're protesting on the same block as the County Sheriff Department and jail.

But then Thousand Oaks caught on fire.  So in terms of competing against the vigil in East County well, the freeway is closed at the Conejo Grade, so people are stuck in whatever side of the county they're on for now.  People evacuating homes now.

EDIT: Second T.O. fire started, over by the old Rocketdyne facility on the other side of the city.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#10
Can I ask an utterly retarded and insensitive question? Why are all these houses built out of timber, and then surrounded by trees? It seems a bit - mistaken - in a fire prone region to not have some form of fire break around habitation.

Maybe it's just not visible in the photographs we see

Also. Maybe it's the paranoia getting to me but I found myself wondering if these fires weren't deliberately set, although by home and why I don't know. It's the scary form of paranoia that probably isn't grounded in reality.

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
Reply
RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#11
(11-10-2018, 04:57 PM), Dartz Wrote: Can I ask an utterly retarded and insensitive question? Why are all these houses built out of timber, and then surrounded by trees? It seems a bit - mistaken - in a fire prone region to not have some form of fire break around habitation.

Here's the trick; in fire prone areas of wilderness, there is a request to clear firebreaks around one's home, to not have trees close to the structure itself. The problem is that it's optional - it's only really "enforceable" when the fire is in the area, and only in terms of "it will determine if the firefighters will decide to protect your home or move to the next house down the street". At least, that's the case here in Colorado. And at least here, there's more than a few people who don't want to move into those areas only to basically have to clear-cut the landscaping around their homes, they moved to those areas to enjoy the trees, and part of "enjoy the trees" is having them practically touching the structure from a forest fire point of view.

OK, pulling the callous card out... hopefully this will be forced to change now that that one township in California has basically been burnt off the map, at least as far as home insurance determining if you're even insurable at all. If nothing else, a healthy dose of declared "high fire risk determined on site inspection, do not insure for fire loss" because they don't clear cut the landscaping may force the change, either people finally clear cutting to help protect the home, or choosing to live in less fire prone areas that still have the trees they want to enjoy.
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#12
We had a similar problem down here in Australia about a decade back, where people building homes with a complete lack of sense led to massive wildfires getting into towns. On top of this, the greens block in state and federal governments was preventing common sense measures like planned burnoffs and landscaping around towns because 'THINK OF THE ENVIRONMENT!' (While ignoring the reality that burnoffs are a natural thing that stops it from escalating to wildfire levels). Since then, there's been massive changes in legislation about house construction, zoning laws, landscaping, evacuation requirements and so on. But there's still the awareness that it might not be enough the next time nature decides to burn our asses off.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#13
"History shows again and again/how nature points out the folly of men" For a silly song about a rubber suit monster, it does have some insightful bits. Hopefully the G-sirens stay silent in the general vicinity for a long time to come, of course.

(Yesterday I was thinking about filk lyrics,* now today this. Funny how things work, innit?)

* Seen here
--
‎noli esse culus
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#14
(11-10-2018, 04:57 PM)Dartz Wrote: Can I ask an utterly retarded and insensitive question? Why are all these houses built out of timber, and then surrounded by trees? It seems a bit - mistaken - in a fire prone region to not have some form of fire break around habitation.

Maybe it's just not visible in the photographs we see

Also. Maybe it's the paranoia getting to me but I found myself wondering if these fires weren't deliberately set, although by home and why I don't know. It's the scary form of paranoia that probably isn't grounded in reality.

It's actually quite simple.

For one: Timber construction is really cheap and fast. Strictly speaking you don't even need to pour a concrete foundation. It also means that when you want to do a (partial) rebuild you don't have to deal with what's basically several tons of rock per cubic meter of wall, and concrete walls aren't exactly as thin as American house walls appear to be. Seriously. Load bearing walls in houses built in the Netherlands are made with poured and reinforced concrete at least 10 centimeters thick, with non-load bearing walls made of drywall.

Of course, lumber based construction is a massive fire hazard. Concrete constructions just endure fire a lot better, although to be fair, make even a concrete house's furniture burn long/hot enough and even concrete will quit. It just generally takes longer.

For another: Building a house surrounded by trees just looks pretty and gets you nature and all those good things close to you. As well as all those bad things, like burning forests with your wooden house being just as much fuel for the fire. I mean, fire don't care, as long as it burns. And wood is wood.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#15
Timber-frame construction is rare here. I've encountered a few. But the majority of houses I'm working in have concrete block walls, concrete floors and heave concrete roof tiles. Many have concrete slab first-floors as well. even the cheapests 'we are tight cunt developers' budget homes have concrete insulated cavity walls. All Timber construction is fantastically rare - it's actually more expensive to build in timber for a lot of people.

(given the choice, I'd actually built from steel, but that's another conversation)

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
Reply
RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#16
... Huh. Not the impression I got from American TV shows. Timber frame construction is absolutely rife there.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#17
Not an American.

Reporting live from Paddystan. .

I love the smell of rotaries in the morning. You know one time, I got to work early, before the rush hour. I walked through the empty carpark, I didn't see one bloody Prius or Golf. And that smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole carpark, smelled like.... ....speed.

One day they're going to ban them.
Reply
RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#18
My neighborhood (in Canada) is mostly brick overwood frame, but then my house (and most of this area) are around 100 years old (my house is 104 I think, built in 1914), pus no real worries about wildfires in this part of Canada.

On the other hand, urban envirnments have their own fire dangers. A rowhouse (in this case, six 2-story homes that are attached side by side to form a single structure) just across and down the street was gutted by a fire this morning. Not sure where the fire started but it looks like the whole set is wrecked. The attic space was originally just 1 chamber the length of the building though they added dividers back in the 60s to try and act as firebreaks, but it doesn't seem to have been enough this time. Sad looks like the roof has fallen in over 4 of the 6 homes, and the 5th at least looks to have some damage. not sure about the unit on the far end.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#19
Wood frame building is incredibly common in North American buildings of three storeys or fewer, for the simple reason that we have a lot of forests and thus a lot of inexpensive timber. Yes, it's a fire hazard. We cope... somehow.

Frame construction also has the advantage of being slightly more survivable if it collapses during an earthquake - you've got dozens of kilograms of mass over you instead of the hundreds of kilograms you'd have with solid-wall concrete or stone construction.
--
Rob Kelk

Sticks and stones can break your bones,
But words can break your heart.
- unknown
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#20
I can't speak for everyone in the US, but the general impression I have on the topic is that cement blocks are for cheap government housing projects and bad-neighborhood schools, while poured concrete with or without brick fascia is for more upscale large buildings, and steel-framed brick or stonework is the provenance of the rich. Middle class homes are almost always wood frame with plywood or beaver-board exterior walls clad in vinyl siding, and sheetrock (occasionally hardboard) over the same wood frame for internal walls, with little difference between load bearing and non- save for whether there's continuous support down to the poured foundation footings or slab. Floors are usually what I think is called "medium density fiberboard," basically sawdust glued together like the beaverboard is garden mulch chips glued and pressed together, with carpet/lino/tile/hardwood/whatever floor surface laid on top of that, and ceilings either more gypsum sheets or whatever fibrous cardboard-y stuff they make drop ceiling panels out of.

Living in the northeast, it's notable that every concrete building I've ever been in has tended to be cold, especially in the winter. I'm sure properly insulating them and having a heating system up to the task is possible, but the economic niche they occupy tends to go for the minimum in that regard. (And the reverse during high temperature season, but for some reason A/C plants tend to be run more aggressively in most of the places I've been. Maybe they figure it's easier to put on a sweater than take off some skin? I know I say that in connection with liking winter more than summer, but the great indoors is supposed to be shirtsleeves conditions...) Having had a house fire in a wood framed, aluminum skinned home that remains rather traumatic, I can see the appeal of silicate-based construction even so, and despite the economic stigma of cement blocks. Living in areas where radon gas seepage is a legitimate concern that and the ability of stray smoke and carbon monoxide from the wood heat balance it out in the family home I'm presently living in, old enough to have actual lath-and-plaster walls and ceilings over the timber frame, and electrical wiring running along the walls in those little conduit strips due to having been added well after the ol' pile was constructed. Only having one or two outlets per room can be a hassle, though.
--
‎noli esse culus
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#21
We tend towards the same sort of mix here in Colorado; general home constructions is timber frame clad in siding, although I live in an odd municipality in that they have code about the cladding of residential buildings needing to be a mix of some sort of siding versus brick (although I can't seem to find it now, it may have been an older code or aimed at commercial buildings). Our own (1955) home is clad in a mix of brick facade (original to the house, about 1/5 of the front exterior) and white coated metal siding (added by the previous owner). I can vouch for the "load bearing" being more or less just support posts, another home of our floorplan on the block had some extensive renovation done inside, including opening up the kitchen as much as they could to the living and dining areas, except for the one corner of the kitchen walls that is clearly the load bearing element running to the steel beam running through the center of the main floor's length.
"You know how parents tell you everything's going to fine, but you know they're lying to make you feel better? Everything's going to be fine." - The Doctor
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#22
ClassicDrogn Wrote:in the family home I'm presently living in, old enough to have actual lath-and-plaster walls and ceilings over the timber frame, and electrical wiring running along the walls in those little conduit strips due to having been added well after the ol' pile was constructed. Only having one or two outlets per room can be a hassle, though.
My house used to have lath-and-plaster walls, but we replaced them back between the mid-80s and mid-Noughties (renovating 1 room at a time). Had to pull out and replace some old Knob-and-tube wiring too (shudder). Luckily Dad is a licensed electrician. I remember him commenting that some of it hadn't been legal since the 40s.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#23
Regarding earthquake survival; that's only relevant in places where there are earthquakes. And last I checked, for the USA that's pretty much only the west coast and Hawaii. The major threats elsewhere appear to be major storms and flooding.

Sure, against heavy flooding you can't exactly do much even with a concrete building, although at least it'll take more before it takes off. But the other major factor of storms is wind pressure, and, well, the old three pigs fable has a rather good point in that stone houses just don't get blown down. You'd think you'd see more concrete construction in the prairie states where most of the tornadoes show up.

Finally; regarding temperature and isolation, thick enough concrete is very good at isolation, but generally here in the Netherlands you see load bearing concrete clad with 2 to 5 centimeters of extra isolation material before they get packed under a largely decorative brick covering. Well, for new construction, older buildings have lower energy efficiency standards. Used to be that temperatures were such that air conditioning wasn't really needed except for unusually hot summer days, but, well, unusually hot summer days are becoming decidedly less unusual these days. And given that I live on the second, top, floor (European counting) of a building like that it gets rather hot here if you're not careful. 30 to 35 degrees C during the day and if you are lucky you can cool it down to 25 at night, before dealing with 30 to 35 degrees inside the next day.

I'm pretty sure my downstairs neighbours have it better when it comes to high heat. When you have to deal with cold, even me, all I have to do is close the windows.
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#24
Here in Texas, wood frame buildings are the common thing. In fact, many of the hotels and apartments being built in the Downtown area are wood-framed. Like this one: http://www.liveagave.com/

That place is completely wood-framed, except for the parking structure.

Although concrete is a safe option here. While we do have a couple of fault lines, they're stable and not likely to cause any trouble. The most excitement we've had was when an earthquake in another part of the country actually caused the entire Edwards Aquifer to SLOSH so violently that the paper graph recording of the time shows the needle flying clear off the top and then the bottom of the page. But otherwise, there was no harm done.

Wildfires of a large scale are actually pretty uncommon here despite the dry spells we're prone to here. Sure, there's a brush fire now and then, but the fire departments here are very quick to respond to these as they are well aware of the consequences.

Personally, I'd take the concrete and do it Japanese style - that is, with storm shutters on slides to quickly cover windows in the event of one of our infamous came-out-of-nowhere thunderstorms that can suddenly deposit golf ball-sized hail stones in your sunroom.

Yasuri Nanami is my number one waifu, if only because she would horribly murder all the others if they didn't shut up and toe the line.
"They did not care about all the other attempts wizards had made on the Lone Power through history; as far as a computer is concerned, there is no program that cannot be debugged, or at worst, rewritten."
-Diane Duane, High Wizardry
"If our friendship depends on things like space and time, we've destroyed our own brotherhood! But overcome space, and all we have left is Here. Overcome time, and all we have left is Now. And in the middle of Here and Now, don't you think that we might see each other once or twice?"
-Richard Bach, Jonathan Livingston Seagull
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RE: [U.S.] Protest Thursday - Nobody is Above the Law
#25
(11-11-2018, 12:23 AM)Norgarth Wrote:
ClassicDrogn Wrote:in the family home I'm presently living in, old enough to have actual lath-and-plaster walls and ceilings over the timber frame, and electrical wiring running along the walls in those little conduit strips due to having been added well after the ol' pile was constructed. Only having one or two outlets per room can be a hassle, though.
My house used to have lath-and-plaster walls, but we replaced them back between the mid-80s and mid-Noughties (renovating 1 room at a time).  Had to pull out and replace some old Knob-and-tube wiring too (shudder).  Luckily Dad is a licensed electrician.  I remember him commenting that some of it hadn't been legal since the 40s.

Oh, my house was fun too.  Finding open electrical boxes concealed behind drywall is always fun.

Some comments on the fires, now that they've mostly died out.  First, the Paradise fire was mainly an urban fire, despite being surrounded by trees.  In fact, the trees largely survived, but the buildings were decimated.  All of the raking our American President could want would do nothing against a urban fire.  Second, we're at the limits of current fire control regulations.  California has had strong building codes for decades and defensible spaces, and they didn't prove exceptionally helpful in the latest conflagrations.  We had homes with stucco walls and tile roofs burn down.  Ventura County has been in a drought since 2012, so we can't just throw water at our landscapes to defend them.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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