Government Shutdown

[hazard]

I wonder what'll happen when all the ATCs call in sick at the same time. For a whole week.

Think the GOP will notice?

[SilverFang01]

It seems that what happened at the airports earlier, plus Mr. Turtle getting snapped at at a GOP meeting yesterday were incentive enough for Trump to surrender for now. We'll see if he is really willing to try this again in three weeks.

Trump caves on shutdown, endorses reopening government for 3 weeks

[Labster]

One of the reasons that you let a vote go to the floor that will fail is to teach people on your own side a lesson. It appears the lesson was learned, at least for today.

But today's weird thing is the defeat lap that Trump took in the White House Rose Garden. I haven't seen a cave with so much bluster since Cave Johnson.

[robkelk]

I wonder what'll happen when all the ATCs call in sick at the same time. For a whole week.

Think the GOP will notice?

They did when Reagan was President. Remember how that turned out?

[Rajvik]

I wonder what'll happen when all the ATCs call in sick at the same time. For a whole week.

Think the GOP will notice?

They did when Reagan was President. Remember how that turned out?

If I remember correctly the response was that they were all fired, replaced with military ATC personel and then had to beg to get their jobs back

[Valles]

I wonder what'll happen when all the ATCs call in sick at the same time. For a whole week.

Think the GOP will notice?

They did when Reagan was President. Remember how that turned out?

If I remember correctly the response was that they were all fired, replaced with military ATC personel and then had to beg to get their jobs back

After the military controllers had to implement most of the stuff they'd asked for in order to meet safety standards.

There were a lot fewer civilian ATCs in those days, though, and about the same number of military ones. It wouldn't work today.

[Rajvik]

Currently a moot point as Trump is giving them 3 weeks to either come up with something, (coincidentally getting all the furloughed workers their last months pay as of the first) or else we'll either be in another shutdown or he'll activate the Emergencies act

[robkelk]

They did come up with something, back on December 22. I've been lead to believe that that's what's in today's agreement - can anyone confirm or refute this?

[hazard]

They did come up with something, back on December 22. I've been lead to believe that that's what's in today's agreement - can anyone confirm or refute this?

That is what I'm hearing from all the major news outlets that I follow.

Well, I don't follow Fox News.


As for a new strike by the ATCs? I'm not sure firing them all again would be a good idea. The number of ATCs appears to be about equal to the 1981 numbers, but air traffic numbers are much greater than they were then. And in 1981 they had to scrap 50% of all the flights, while the current trade union, NATCA, notes that there's a current chronic staffing shortage due to the demands of the job and relatively low salaries gaining them few recruits. It also took a decade to restaff the air traffic control systems rather than the 2 years that were expected.

I'd expect some major repercussions in passenger traffic at minimum, long term repercussions, should such a thing happen, majorly impacting all tourism in the US.

[LynnInDenver]

I'm expecting a number of long-term repercussions from the shutdown myself. Disclaimer: my brother and sister-in-law both work for the government, and he was furloughed this round. They seem to be doing OK, but there are others much worse off than they are.

First, anything government job that paid low salaries that pretty much guaranteed "paycheck to paycheck" will become (potentially much) harder to staff. Best case is they're going to have a sudden number of "transitioning to the private sector" folks who have decided that the paycheck is now too uncertain to risk, even with backpay coming, and those people will have to be replaced. Those wages will have to start increasing whether they want them to or not.

Second, government contractors will be wise to demand 10% more money when the contracts come up for renewal. I'd be surprised if we don't have some of those contractors close down because of the missed month, or decide that they, too, are now done because the money is no longer certain, which will contribute to price increases from those that remain. Some of those that close down will leave unfinished contracts that need to be reshopped in a hurry, which will involve even more money needing to be paid for the same services.

Third, I'm expecting massive backlog issues even without the loss of personnel. I'm expecting our tax return (if we get money back) to easily take a couple of more weeks than normal to process. In fact, we pay someone to do it for us, out of the refund, and we may have to actually pay it out of pocket this time instead of out of the refund if the delays are too long.

And technically this is just the short-term effects. I expect anyone who worked for the government and has had to rely on payday lenders or the pawn shop to make the ends meet while being forced to work is going to well remember this into the 2020 election season, and who was in control of all three branches when this whole disaster was set into motion.

[Rajvik]

If nothing else puts this in perspective, this political cartoon does as far as in concerned.

https://townhall.com/political-cartoons/.../25/162932

[hazard]

I disagree with the shutdown being Pelosi's. When the shutdown started the funding bill in question was widely supported by both the Republicans and the Democrats. It passed the Senate 100 votes to 0 and the then Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (IIRC) could've passed it with a similar margin.

Then Trump opened his mouth and said he won't sign it, and either it wasn't voted on in the House or, when the Senate had to vote on it again to confirm it Mich McConnel refused to let the vote happen. The fault lies with the Republicans for not passing the bills in the House until after the handover in Januari when they had plenty of margin to force the President into compliance before.

[Black Aeronaut]

Like Milo said in Bloom County, "It doesn't matter how thin you slice it, it's still bologna."

[Epsilon]

If nothing else puts this in perspective, this political cartoon does as far as in concerned.

Cost of watching Trump lose all his credibility?

Priceless.

[robkelk]

If nothing else puts this in perspective, this political cartoon does as far as in concerned.

https://townhall.com/political-cartoons/.../25/162932

There's a factual error in that cartoon.

Pelosi wasn't the one who stormed out of negotiations.

Pelosi wasn't the one who refused to sign an appropriation bill before it was delivered to him.

This was not Pelosi's shutdown.

[Bob Schroeck]

And don't forget that Trump declared on national TV that he would "own the shutdown".

[classicdrogn]

Indeed, that he would be proud to shut down the government over funding for his damnfool wall. Why did this have to be the one time he tries to follow through on a promise?

[NifT]

Indeed, that he would be proud to shut down the government over funding for his damnfool wall. Why did this have to be the one time he tries to follow through on a promise?

I only give him partial credit for this one. After all, he promised to own it, and then promptly blamed Pelosi and the Democrats.

[robkelk]

Thomson Reuters: Shutdown cost pegged at $3B as U.S. government reopens

Thomson Reuters is a non-USA company, and thus has no dog in this race.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said the cost of the shutdown will make the U.S. economy 0.02 per cent smaller than expected in 2019.

So that cartoon is incorrect again, in a demonstrable point of fact. I would suggest not trusting anything reported by that source without independent verification from a non-USA source.

[Rajvik]

Incorrect because that data hadn't come out at the time it was made, it apparently should read 11 billion

[robkelk]

Overall, the U.S. economy lost about $11 billion during the five-week period, CBO said. However, the agency expects $8 billion to be recovered, as the government reopens and employees receive back pay.

11-8=3.

If you're going to insist on the 11 billion number, then you also have to insist it's Trump's fault - in that he's the one who "owned" the shutdown.

[Rajvik]

The 11 billion was what the local ABC affiliate had on their headline ticker, the never did a breakdown of it.

It is all four of their faults in my book, the difference being that I support the idea of stopping people from being able to JUST WALK ACROSS OUR BORDER WHEREVER THEY PLEASE.

Sorry, it is an irritation for me. I blame McConnel, Pelosi, Trump, and the idiot Pelosi replaced. McConnel was to weak and didn't force the vote in the Senate when the initial bill passed the house because he "knew" he didn't have 60 votes and would break the filibuster rule. I understand the last, it gives the minority of the Senate some power and he expects to have to use it that way again. 

Pelosi's predecessor fled the scene 2 years too late and was a weak kneed asswipe to begin with, McCarthy is no damn better AMD even when the Republicans get power back won't use it. I have to give your party one thing, they usually know how to get things done when they control all 3 seats. Obama admin not withstanding, anytime the deems have held all three they have really pushed the envelope. 

Trump is just trying to fulfill another promise that he made, its one of the reasons we like him like we do. No matter what the deems pull out of their asses, he still fights on. THAT is what will get him reelected, you know along with the record unemployment across the board

[Black Aeronaut]

[...]the difference being that I support the idea of stopping people from being able to JUST WALK ACROSS OUR BORDER WHEREVER THEY PLEASE.

Just for the record, what was your beef about this again?

There have been no terrorist that has ever 'walked across the border'.

They neither need nor want to go to that trouble.

They want their people to be people we don't suspect.

An Afghani refugee going to school far less suspicious than an Afghani that 'walked across the border'.

Refugees get automatic access to education assistance.  For illegal border crossers - despite your claims - that's a hit or miss thing.

And in the few cases where there's a violent crime perpetrated by an illegal border crosser?  Well, the hell of it is that it's never the ones who are first-time crossers.  They are usually deported at least two or three times before the do something horrible to someone, and each time they were deported it was because they were caught red-handed committing a crime.

In which case I have to stop and ask: WHAT THE FUCK?

Once I can understand.  Get out and stay out.  The second time should have been where the judge fucking throws the book at them and sends them off to prison.

Every time I see something in the news about an illegal immigrant that commited a violent crime, no wall we could ever afford to build would have kept them out.  Barbed wire?  Throw something over it.  Tall?  Get a rope.  Bars?  Hand me that hacksaw.  No purchase for climbing?  Dig under it or find a drain.

To build the kind of wall to keep determined people like that out, you'd need to build China's Great Wall 5.0, ten armed guard for every quarter mile, drones buzzing all over the place, and fucking seismometers to tell you when someone is is trying to dig under.

There would have to be drainage culverts every half-mile or so, and they'll have to be monitored constantly.  There will have to be pumping stations to pump out the water from low-lying areas.

In TEXAS you'll have to build it on OUR SIDE of the Rio Grande.  Good luck getting that approved.

There will have to be fucking GARRISONS for the Border Patrol agents you'd have on this thing.  And that's to say NOTHING of all the other sundry shit.  Motor pools, maintenance shops, command and control centers...

And no matter what you say, this is the wall you really want.  The absolute barrier that will keep all the murders, rapists, and terrorists out of our country.  Nothing less is going to accomplish that feat.

Or, you know, we can just do the shit we're supposed to do, like actually enforce laws instead of pretending that every tom, dick, and harry isn't our problem by sending them all back.  Because that will be far less expensive in the end.

[Labster]

Hey BA I agree with a lot of that, but you let yourself get trolled by Rajvik again. Yes, he believes what he's saying, but you still got trolled. I would like a world where everyone could just walk across a border whenever they pleased, but I know that getting there is very complicated, so I'm not gonna post about it here.

If you put as much effort as the above into writing a physical description of your apartment complex in There's Nothing Better, I would be super happy. I need to know things like how are the rooms connected, if the apartments are in walking distance of a residential neighborhood (which part of town), and what the party room looks like. If there are empty rooms available for people to get changed into costume, I need to know too.

[hazard]

So I suppose the US is looking for a new iron curtain?

Because that worked out so well for the Soviets.