Sort-of OT - the megami in game terms

[robkelk]

I put this together a short time ago, and asked him to take a look at it (thanks again, Bob!), which he did before going on his recent holiday. It took me this long to put it on my website... (sigh)
In Nomine Anime: Ah Megamisama
Any errors are mine. What errors did I make?

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[Bob Schroeck]

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(thanks again, Bob!)

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You're welcome! I'm sorry I didn't get back to you with the more in-depth review I'd promised, though...
-- Bob
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...The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...

[Valles]

...Hm. Honestly, my first reaction is something along the lines of, 'But they're Superiors!'
My first reasoning for this is what Fujishima tells us about their full abilities, particularly during the Lord of Terror arc - essentially that, without her limiters, Belldandy is powerful enough to destroy a planet by breathing on it wrong. My second is the sheer scale of the concepts they represent... 'Was', 'Is', 'Will Be'.
Can anyone with a better knowledge of scriptures confirm my memory of God answering the question, 'Who are you?' by saying, 'I am'?
Belldandy Is.
On the other hand, it's a lot harder to write a new Superior into a setting than it is to include a Wordbound, so I understand perfectly well why they would be built that way...
I just don't think it's the most likely integration of the two canons.
Ja, -n

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"Puripuri puripuri... Bang!"

[Bob Schroeck]

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Can anyone with a better knowledge of scriptures confirm my memory of God answering the question, 'Who are you?' by saying, 'I am'?

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Exodus 3:13-14: New American Standard Bible:

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13. Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
14. God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

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-- Bob
---------
...The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...

[robkelk]

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Honestly, my first reaction is something along the lines of, 'But they're Superiors!'

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Well, Belldandy's definitely Superior-level. Urd and Skuld, though, are "only" Second-class Limited Goddesses - better than the usual Goddess, but not up there with the First-class Unlimited Goddesses like Belldandy.
Can you see Bell accepting a Superior-level position while her sisters don't get equivalent promotions?
-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[DHBirr]

I have two thoughts to contribute to this.
The first is actually a question.

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It has been established in Ah! Megamisama that they are all daughters of The Almighty....

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It has? I don't recall seeing anything conclusive in the manga or the OAV -- is this in the movie? There is one rather strong indicator in the manga, at the start of the "Mystery Child" arc, when Urd addresses The Almighty as "Daddy," but I've never seen anything else in canon that supported the notion. I find it a little hard to believe that we'd never see Bell address him as "Father."
Second point:

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Keiichi is either a normal human with an unusual capacity for compassion or a new Soldier of God....

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In the fifth OAV, child-Belldandy comments that no human should have been capable of seeing her arrival on Earth. Either she was mistaken about the strength of her SEP field, or this is canon evidence that K1 is something more than just a very nice human. Hmmm. Maybe we'd better make sure nobody tells him about Darrian Ashoka.
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Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[Valles]

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Well, Belldandy's definitely Superior-level. Urd and Skuld, though, are "only" Second-class Limited Goddesses - better than the usual Goddess, but not up there with the First-class Unlimited Goddesses like Belldandy.

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Is Marc as powerful as Michael?

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It has? I don't recall seeing anything conclusive in the manga or the OAV -- is this in the movie? There is one rather strong indicator in the manga, at the start of the "Mystery Child" arc, when Urd addresses The Almighty as "Daddy," but I've never seen anything else in canon that supported the notion. I find it a little hard to believe that we'd never see Bell address him as "Father."

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I recall it coming up fairly explicitly in the Hild arc - that Urd is the acknowledged daughter of Hild and the Almighty, and that the three sisters share a father, but had different mothers.
Whether or not he raised them, and whether they'd feel close enough to be relatively informal and mention their relationship, is a different question.
Come to that, I don't recall Bell ever adressing him directly...
Ja, -n

===============================================
"Puripuri puripuri... Bang!"

[Bob Schroeck]

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I recall it coming up fairly explicitly in the Hild arc - that Urd is the acknowledged daughter of Hild and the Almighty, and that the three sisters share a father, but had different mothers.

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I've read at least that far in the manga, and I seem to remember that as well... but I couldn't quote chapter and verse on it, unlike above.
-- Bob
---------
...The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...

[DHBirr]

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I recall it coming up fairly explicitly in the Hild arc - that Urd is the acknowledged daughter of Hild and the Almighty, and that the three sisters share a father, but had different mothers.

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Well, the fact that they share a father but had different mothers was spelled out in the Lord of Terror arc. But unless you've got a different translation from the Dark Horse version I'm looking at*, I can't find anything in the Hild arc that says who their father is. Hild does say about Skuld, "Ooooh! She looks just like her daddy!" (Followed by a little heart shape). And she later tells Bell, "You're just like him, you know... like the side of him ... that I couldn't stand." But she never gets more specific than that.
As for Belldandy addressing The Almighty, in the Lord of Terror arc she spoke to Him a couple of times, including a flashback sequence showing how she first learned Urd was part demon. She called Him "My Lord" most of the time; "Almighty One" on at least one occasion. Well, if He wasn't a very there-for-His-kids father (which seems to have been true for whoever her father was), maybe she did become accustomed to addressing Him with impersonal formality. But it feels un-Belldandy-like, somehow -- to me, anyway.
* I'm at home right now, and the bookcase with my OMG collection is less than ten feet away from my computer. Easy to check the sources.
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Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[robkelk]

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Is Marc as powerful as Michael?

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No, but Marc and Michael aren't siblings... or as compassionate as Belldandy.

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But unless you've got a different translation from the Dark Horse version I'm looking at*, I can't find anything in the Hild arc that says who their father is.

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Well, I did ask for everybody to tell me about my errors... (sigh).
I spotted another one - there's a Song missing from Belldandy's list. (She's only used the Celestial Song of Symphony once, IIRC, but it was in the introduction story for World of Elegance so it should be listed.) Something else for the next update...

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[DHBirr]

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Well, I did ask for everybody to tell me about my errors... (sigh).

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Sorry. I actually hoped somebody could point out some evidence I'd either missed or hadn't had a chance to see, 'cause it's a cool notion. Of course, it isn't proven that they aren't His daughters, either. Remember, Urd did call Him "Daddy" that one time.
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Big Brother is watching you.  And damn, you are so bloody BORING.

[jpub]

A point to remember is that Urd is ridiculously powerful for a Second Class goddess. This came up numerous times in the manga. She's easily powerful enough to be a 1st Class, but she doesn't handle the responsibility well.
It's also been suggested that when Skuld matures she'll be as powerful as Belldandy.

This is very good work, though. I'm curious as to what you'd do for Paradox.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"

[robkelk]

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This is very good work, though.

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Thanks.

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I'm curious as to what you'd do for Paradox.

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Well, when I was writing the paragraph about "Belldandy as a Superior", I was tempted to add a mention of the Word-bound Servitor of Moments... Seriously, I don't yet have enough information about Paradox to do a decent writeup of him. (One of these months, I'll have time to read the God's Toy and Toybox stories... but not this month, alas.)
Ah, yes - the revision's up, in the same place. The aforemetioned paragraph about Bell as an Archangel, a little weasel-wording about who their Father is, a fix for that one-line description of Keiichi, and the addition of that missing Song to Belldandy's writeup.
And just because I like the people here: a PDF file of the character sheets as they read right now.

(Edit: stupid typos. I really should get a keyboard with more sensitive keys...)
-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[jpub]

I still haven't figured out which Archangel Paradox would be under. Probably Yves - since the concept of the Moment (check the poem posted somewhere in here) is so tied to Destiny.
He's brobably be a Cherubim, with a ton of Atunements from Michael and/or Lawrence.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"

[Bob Schroeck]

Hmm. That sounds about right to me, Chris... although given what a stuck-up prig Lawrence is, do you really want to be beholden to him?
-- Bob
---------
...The President is on the line
As ninety-nine crab rangoons go by...

[jpub]

Probably not.
I wish I understood In Nom better, I'd do it myself.--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"

[Herr Bad Moon]

David might be a better choice, as a brother whose job is to be a devoted gaurdian to his sisters would probably appeal to him. Though whether Paradox gets on with him would be up in the air.---------------
-Jon
Being the Mariner hitting coach is like being the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts.
-Poster on USSMariner.com
---
Jon
"And that must have caused my dad's brain to break in half, replaced by a purely mechanical engine of revenge!"

[robkelk]

Going by David's writeup in Superiors 1, I suspect Paradox would rather spend time with Modi. At least Modi doesn't try to justify his abusive behaviour with excuses about how it toughens up the humans, the way David does.
(No, I don't particularly like most of the "War Faction", but IMHO David's the worst of the bunch. He's at one extreme of the scale that Novalis is at the other end of.)
(Come to think of it, I don't like most of the Superiors on either side. I can count on one hand the ones I'd be willing to spend forever with, and I'd have fingers to spare. (Marc, Lilith, and maybe Eli.) The rest are too monomanical, IMHO. Maybe I should write up Belldandy as a Superior, once I finish BSBW...)

-Rob Kelk
--
Rob Kelk
"Governments have no right to question the loyalty of those who oppose
them. Adversaries remain citizens of the same state, common subjects of
the same sovereign, servants of the same law."

- Michael Ignatieff, addressing Stanford University in 2012

[jpub]

Having read the original In Nom sourcebook, I think that's sort of intentional - by becoming the Archangel/Prince of a largely encompassing Word, they turn into almost a parody of it.
It might even indicate a tendency - the larger your Word is, the more focussed you become.
Interestingly enough, the only ones that don't seem to end up that way are the 'deviants' like Yves and Eli, who are willing to let their Words sort of... slide.

As I understand In Nom, Paradox would be a particular abberation in that his Word is less important to him than his Job.
He'd definitely be under Yves, but I can see it him picking up attunements as gifts or favors from the War set to a minion of Yves set to protect three girls of particular importance to the big boss.
(This also fits in with Paradox being a 'project' of the big boss.)
--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
The Works of Christopher Angel
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?"