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Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#1
Canada's asylum agreement with the U.S. infringes on Charter, says Federal Court

Quote:A Federal Court justice says the Safe Third Country Agreement — Canada's asylum agreement with the United States — infringes upon the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and is giving the federal government six months to respond.

tl;dr: Federal court says there's no guarantee of the right to life, liberty, or security of the person for ineligible refugee claimants returned to the USA.

(Aren't two of those three Constitutional guarantees also in the United States Constitution?)

Of course the left-wing NDP wants the government to abide by the ruling while the right-wing Conservative Party wants the ruling appealed. (There's only one court left to appeal to.) The government has six months to respond to the ruling.
--
Rob Kelk

Since it's an election year in the USA: How to Immigrate to Canada, direct from the Government of Canada's website. "How you can immigrate to Canada, how to protect yourself from fraud and what to expect after you arrive in Canada."
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#2
All three actually, although 'security of the person' is IIRC written out in the 4th Amendment and not as generalized.
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#3
Quote:Although the Federal Court has made its ruling, that decision does not come in effect until January 22, 2021.

So, two days after the inauguration of the next President of the United States. What a coincidence!
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#4
That gives the next guy (who might be Trump) two days to fix things.
--
Rob Kelk

Since it's an election year in the USA: How to Immigrate to Canada, direct from the Government of Canada's website. "How you can immigrate to Canada, how to protect yourself from fraud and what to expect after you arrive in Canada."
Reply
RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#5
i haven't read the whole of the article yet, and i will, but my first thought on this is that what this is about is people who illegally came to the US, (ie not citizens) and because they fear, (rightly or wrongly) that they are about to be deported to their counrty of origin, ( or at least Mexico) they are fleeing to Canada and your court has basically stated that No, the government cannot just hand them over to the US government to send home or send them home themselves, but have to allow them all the rights and privileges that you as Canadian citizens enjoy.

i'm going to go finish the article, but jesus, we have borders for a reason, and it's not just a place to earn tax revenue

edit: i finished reading the article and i was right. Now the question is, should we arrange for my plan to take place and set up a non-stop rail run from say, El Paso to Montreal and let Canada deal with all the "Migrants" flooding the border, or are you going to see some sense
Wolf wins every fight but the one where he dies, fangs locked around the throat of his opponent. 
Currently writing BROBd

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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#6
And remember, if they're not US citizens, they're not people!
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#7
no Matrix, they are people, but they are not our responsibility and they are not due the protections of our constitution. Now i find it amusing that you make these comments when your own government have been turning away "Refugees" from Indonesia for decades, therefore you have no real room to speak
Wolf wins every fight but the one where he dies, fangs locked around the throat of his opponent. 
Currently writing BROBd

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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#8
And I've been fighting for the rights of those refugees since before I left high school. I'll keep fighting for as long as I can. You, on the other hand, will take any excuse you can find to kick people while they're down. Refugees from countries your government fucked over for oil, your own fellow citizens protesting for the right to not be killed by your own police, people dying from disease and lack of health care... You'll declare it to all be their own fault, while also hiding behind the excuse of 'well, it's technically legal'
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#9
sighs...
Matrix, part of me wants to say, "Yes, i am that asshole ICE regional director from Coneheads" but we have laws for a reason. Most of those people that are coming here are coming through countries that are "Safe" compared to where they are coming from, they have the opportunity to find jobs there, to make lives for themselves there and yet they push on towards the US, (or Australia in your case) the question is why and the answer as my mother used to show her history classes was this:


they don't want good enough they want what we have, now while i don't begrudge them that there are laws in place and a waiting list to get in.

As for who is at fault for what, as some of you have been so kind to remind us all, you get what you vote for and you have to live with who you put in office.
Wolf wins every fight but the one where he dies, fangs locked around the throat of his opponent. 
Currently writing BROBd

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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#10
(07-23-2020, 09:35 PM)Rajvik Wrote: no Matrix, they are people, but they are not our responsibility and they are not due the protections of our constitution. Now i find it amusing that you make these comments when your own government have been turning away "Refugees" from Indonesia for decades, therefore you have no real room to speak

Should I take this to read that US citizens are not due the protections of other nations' constitutions either? Because oh boy, that's a can of worms to open.

There's a reason there are international treaties (that the US signed) regarding things like 'treating our citizens like they're yours' and 'just because they're refugees entering your territory without your permission that doesn't mean you get to abuse them'.

Although, the USA has had a long and storied history of treating people poorly. Including its own citizens.

(07-23-2020, 10:08 PM)Rajvik Wrote: sighs...
Matrix, part of me wants to say, "Yes, i am that asshole ICE regional director from Coneheads" but we have laws for a reason. Most of those people that are coming here are coming through countries that are "Safe" compared to where they are coming from, they have the opportunity to find jobs there, to make lives for themselves there and yet they push on towards the US, (or Australia in your case) the question is why and the answer as my mother used to show her history classes was this:


they don't want good enough they want what we have, now while i don't begrudge them that there are laws in place and a waiting list to get in.

As for who is at fault for what, as some of you have been so kind to remind us all, you get what you vote for and you have to live with who you put in office.

That it's safe where they are coming from doesn't mean it's safer than where they want to go. Or that where they are now is capable of supporting them.

In fact, most of the illegal migration happening between the USA and Mexico happens because the USA is screaming for cheap labour, and Mexicans being willing to work harder for less pay compared to US citizens. You could shut most of the illegal migration down just by addressing that economical issue. Or focus the punitive measures for your enforcement on the companies making use of illegal migrant labour and making a point of finding and dealing with those companies and their officers.

That sort of structure works because there's an economic incentive on all sides to let it work after all.
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#11
There's a whole economic engine at the US-Mexico border.  Drugs and people are smuggled in, so the gangs and coyotes make money on both ends.  Once in the U.S., the drugs are sold, and used to buy guns.  These guns are smuggled into Mexico, arming the mafias and making everyone's lives worse.  Therefore, people want to leave their home country so they can have a stable job.  But guess who will bring you across the border?  Just like the previous massive human trafficking scheme America was complicit in, trade is a large driver of it.

If you want to stop the flow of immigrants, you need to make Mexico better.  Stop the demand for illegal drugs in the U.S., and you take out one leg.  Stop the flow of guns south, you take out another.  Give people a reason to stay, and they will.  Oh, and, incidentally, decriminalizing drugs and getting guns off the street make America a safer place too.  They keep saying that immigrants keep coming because they want to take what we have.  Have we considered just giving it to them?  What we have might not be all that expensive.

Honestly, I don't get why people are so afraid of Mexicans coming to America.  I've lived in a state with millions of illegals for almost my entire life, and I don't see the deleterious effects.  Everything seems fine to me.  Our inability to built enough housing has more to do with environmental regulations and AirBnB than immigrants.  And, honestly, I probably have more in common with them than I do with half of Americans.  I know people are afraid of the criminals who cross the border, but at this point, I'm more likely to be kidnapped by my own federal government than harmed by an illegal.

Like, what happened to Republicans?  I remember them all being up in arms about law enforcement overreach in Ruby Ridge and Malheur Wildlife Refuge.  I guess it's okay if the jack-booted thugs are owning the libs?
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#12
(07-23-2020, 07:11 PM)Rajvik Wrote: i haven't read the whole of the article yet, and i will, but my first thought on this is that what this is about is people who illegally came to the US, (ie not citizens) and because they fear, (rightly or wrongly) that they are about to be deported to their counrty of origin, ( or at least Mexico) they are fleeing to Canada and your court has basically stated that No, the government cannot just hand them over to the US government to send home or send them home themselves, but have to allow them all the rights and privileges that you as Canadian citizens enjoy.

i'm going to go finish the article, but jesus, we have borders for a reason, and it's not just a place to earn tax revenue

edit: i finished reading the article and i was right. Now the question is, should we arrange for my plan to take place and set up a non-stop rail run from say, El Paso to Montreal and let Canada deal with all the "Migrants" flooding the border, or are you going to see some sense

And we now have evidence that Rajvik is illiterate.


First, a request for asylum counts as a legal entry to the country where asylum is being requested. No illegal entry is described in the article.

Second, this applies equally to citizens of the USA who request asylum in Canada. (Yes, it happens.)

Third, the article says nothing about allowing migrants or asylum-seekers the same rights and privileges that citizens enjoy. (Nor does it say anything about requiring migrants or asylum-seekers have the same responsibilities that citizens have.)

Fourth, if someone is in El Paso, then they're already on USA soil, and thus the USA is required by international treaty to hear their cases for asylum and to provide them the protections of the local laws and Constitution. If you are going to comment on international law, you should take the time to learn what that law actually is.


Finally, your tone in all of the posts you have made in this thread implies that you appear to think that people who are not like you coming into your country is somehow a bad thing. That isn't a case of illiteracy; it's a case of bigotry.
--
Rob Kelk

Since it's an election year in the USA: How to Immigrate to Canada, direct from the Government of Canada's website. "How you can immigrate to Canada, how to protect yourself from fraud and what to expect after you arrive in Canada."
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#13
Hazard, it is extremely rare for a US citizen to go to another country without already having permission to do so either as a visitor, (tourist visa) to work, (work visa) or to permanently move there, (immigration visa). You are comparing apples to oranges so to speak.

as to your other part actually per US and international refugee law yes it does. now granted that is a more recent change that, yes, the Trump administration forced through, but the point is that there usually is somewhere safer to go to than where you are. The fact that where you are in the interim is:
A) safer than where you were
B) is in a different country than where you were
does actually matter.

Now, Rob, i don't insult you, and will try not to as i write this, however:
1- No, the rules for refugee status requires you to make the request in a separate country before being allowed entry into the US, and do not count for admittance, try again.
2-yes it has, and you can keep the draft dodging bastards, just be so kind as to send back the murdering anarchists to that they can stand proper trial
3-Its one of those quid-pro-quo things that tend to happen, because once they are IN THE COUNTRY people like the ACLU scream bloody damn murder when they DON'T get the same rights, and considering we cant tell just by looking at someone that they aren't a citizen we have to afford them those rights until such time that we can get around the ACLU, which is extremely rare and then people like you, NOTE I SAID LIKE YOU, still raise hell about it.
4-Here you are being intentionally facetious, or are too dense for me to do anything but be as blunt as a 20 kilo sledge hammer, TRAIN ACCESS AT THE BORDER CROSSING, MIGRANTS GET ON AND THEN RIDE TO CANADA BORDER WHERE THEY DISEMBARK AND YOU DEAL WITH THEM!
Finally-No, not bigotry just callousness. i dont care where the fuck they come from, there are enough people here already that need to be earning their own damn way and the only way thats going to happen is if those start working those low level jobs to get them used to actually WORKING instead of being catered to because they think they are special. Maybe it's because of my upbringing, but ii have never seen anything wrong with working entry level or starting over from scratch when everything goes tits up. shit happens and you get the government you vote for. make a difference in your own damn country, don't come crying to me because you either through your apathy or your greed turned it into a shithole.
Wolf wins every fight but the one where he dies, fangs locked around the throat of his opponent. 
Currently writing BROBd

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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#14
(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: get around the ACLU

The fact that you see human rights as thing that need to be bypassed instead of upheld speaks volumes.
--
Rob Kelk

Since it's an election year in the USA: How to Immigrate to Canada, direct from the Government of Canada's website. "How you can immigrate to Canada, how to protect yourself from fraud and what to expect after you arrive in Canada."
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#15
(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: Hazard, it is extremely rare for a US citizen to go to another country without already having permission to do so either as a visitor, (tourist visa) to work, (work visa) or to permanently move there, (immigration visa). You are comparing apples to oranges so to speak.

Right... and I suppose that all that military personnel on invasion liberation and occupation peace keeping duties the USA has had and still has wandering the globe were and are all there with the permission of the relevant national authorities? I have my doubts.

Leaving that aside, either everybody benefits from the protection of the law, or nobody benefits from the protection of the law. Because as has been amply demonstrated throughout history time and again 'this person' can easily become 'that person' and 'those people' have no rights. Europe still remembers the last time shit like that happened, the Yugoslavian civil war isn't that old, and for all that the last living memory of it is dying off, we also remember a time some 80 years ago now. And we'd rather not see a repeat.

The USA on the other hand seems eager to repeat its failures time and again and again and again and again. They learn nothing every time something happens that shows the oaths and promises the USA make as worthless and hollow. Not unless blood is spilled in the streets. And very often, not even then.

(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: as to your other part actually per US and international refugee law yes it does. now granted that is a more recent change that, yes, the Trump administration forced through, but the point is that there usually is somewhere safer to go to than where you are. The fact that where you are in the interim is:
A) safer than where you were
B) is in a different country than where you were
does actually matter.

So I suppose that refugees fleeing gun violence in Argentina but are now in Mexico will per permitted entry? Because according to Wikipedia Argentina, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Chile and Peru are all safer from gun related death than the USA are, but Mexico is more dangerous than the USA. That does not sound safer to me.

(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: 2-yes it has, and you can keep the draft dodging bastards, just be so kind as to send back the murdering anarchists to that they can stand proper trial

I''m sure Canada would be happy to send those right wing extremist nutcases back to the USA for trial and detention.

(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: 3-Its one of those quid-pro-quo things that tend to happen, because once they are IN THE COUNTRY people like the ACLU scream bloody damn murder when they DON'T get the same rights, and considering we cant tell just by looking at someone that they aren't a citizen we have to afford them those rights until such time that we can get around the ACLU, which is extremely rare and then people like you, NOTE I SAID LIKE YOU, still raise hell about it.

Yes because it's not as if the USA has ever mistakenly deported its own citizens. Oh, wait, that actually happens. And keeps happening, because the federal government is apparently shit at recognizing its own citizens.

(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: 4-Here you are being intentionally facetious, or are too dense for me to do anything but be as blunt as a 20 kilo sledge hammer, TRAIN ACCESS AT THE BORDER CROSSING, MIGRANTS GET ON AND THEN RIDE TO CANADA BORDER WHERE THEY DISEMBARK AND YOU DEAL WITH THEM!

Now why would Canada do that when those people so desperately want to go to the promised land that is the USA?

(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: Finally-No, not bigotry just callousness. i dont care where the fuck they come from, there are enough people here already that need to be earning their own damn way and the only way thats going to happen is if those start working those low level jobs to get them used to actually WORKING instead of being catered to because they think they are special. Maybe it's because of my upbringing, but ii have never seen anything wrong with working entry level or starting over from scratch when everything goes tits up. shit happens and you get the government you vote for. make a difference in your own damn country, don't come crying to me because you either through your apathy or your greed turned it into a shithole.

Well, that explains why I don't want to go the USA.

Apathy and greed has turned into a shithole. Don't come crying to me when you finally realize it.
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RE: Court says Canada's asylum agreement with US infringes Canadian Constitutional rights
#16
(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: Hazard, it is extremely rare for a US citizen to go to another country without already having permission to do so either as a visitor, (tourist visa) to work, (work visa) or to permanently move there, (immigration visa). You are comparing apples to oranges so to speak.

No, this is extremely common, as in it happened thousands of times a day before the pandemic started. Every time I flew to Europe for business and vacation I literally just showed up in their country and they granted me a tourist visa. Americans don't get permission in advance, because we are a superpower. The last time I was admitted to the Netherlands, I only had to answer one extremely hard question to get a visa, "You're from California?"

If you're talking about Americans overstaying their visas, this also happens all the time w.r.t. Europe and Canada, and they have similar numbers overstaying with us. If you ask if Americans violating their visas is considered a serious problem... well, only the North Sentinelese and North Koreans think so.

(07-26-2020, 06:58 PM)Rajvik Wrote: 4-Here you are being intentionally facetious, or are too dense for me to do anything but be as blunt as a 20 kilo sledge hammer, TRAIN ACCESS AT THE BORDER CROSSING, MIGRANTS GET ON AND THEN RIDE TO CANADA BORDER WHERE THEY DISEMBARK AND YOU DEAL WITH THEM!
Finally-No, not bigotry just callousness. i dont care where the fuck they come from, there are enough people here already that need to be earning their own damn way and the only way thats going to happen is if those start working those low level jobs to get them used to actually WORKING instead of being catered to because they think they are special. Maybe it's because of my upbringing, but ii have never seen anything wrong with working entry level or starting over from scratch when everything goes tits up. shit happens and you get the government you vote for. make a difference in your own damn country, don't come crying to me because you either through your apathy or your greed turned it into a shithole.

Whoa that's a lot of misanthropy. Can we get a little Moon Healing Escalation over here? I think he's possessed by a youma.
"Kitto daijoubu da yo." - Sakura Kinomoto
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